Who invented the scherzo?

[John H White]

  I posed this question some years back but,since then, a good number of new members have joined this forum and I'm hoping for some fresh ideas on this subject. By "scherzo" I mean a sort of "jazzed up" version of the standard minuet and trio which generally comes before or after the slow movement in a 4 movement instrumental work.
     On the face of it, Joseph Haydn is the most likely candidate, as in his Op. 33 quartets but, more especially, in the so called "minuets" of his last few quartets. However, I'm wondering if some lesser known composer may have got there before Haydn.
    Another question would follow on from this: was Beethoven really the first to substitute a scherzo for a minuet in a symphony or was he just following a trend already established by one or more of his lesser known contemporaries?

[Lionel Harrsion]

I agree with your assertion that Joseph Haydn is the most likely candidate for this innovation -- as he was of many others.  I guess one difficulty is that not all composers in the early to middle 18th century bothered too much about tempo directions, in the absence of which it can only be an educated guess about whether a movement was intended to be a genuine minuet or something faster.  An interesting topic for debate!