Unsung 20th Century Symphonists

[eschiss1]

Latvia- re Zimmer- thanks, I have recordings of the first 11 (starting from the 1st of 1955, once on LP) I think and was making an incorrect assumption, but I think I was told there was a 12th that my friend didn't have, I'd just forgotten...
He wrote three string quartets, now... hrm! and at least 5 piano sonatas, and a violin sonata... and lots of film music (not to be confused with Hans Zimmer).

[X. Trapnel]

I have a near--oh, to hell with "near"--an obsession with the post-romantic and modern French symphony, and so:
Magnard's last 2 symphonies belong to the 20th century. Among Roussel's four only the third is well known. the first is a work of great lyric beauty, but the second is a large, dark, brooding, and very powerful work, my favorite among the four. Paul Paray is my favorite composing conductor (I am not including Mahler in this category); his first symphony gives some idea of what a Faure symphony would be like and the second might be considered the Magnard 5th just as Jacques Chailley's 1st Symphony might be the Roussel 5th. Another Frenchman with four symphonies is Paul LeFlem; 1 and 4 have been recorded, the former an amalgam of Bax and Ropartz (the Celtic/Breton connection), the latter harsh, dissonant, rather grating. In the Franck/Chausson/Dukas single symphony tradition are Louis Vierne, Sylvio Lazzari, Phillipe Gaubert. All the forgoing have been recorded.

[semloh]

Alan - thanks for the Bodley advice. I've checked for a CD so many times over the years, and there it is! Another overspend on my pocket money, coming up.

[vandermolen]

Fascinating thread - but not necessarily good for my bank balance 

Here are some recommendations from me:

Allan Petterson Symphony 6-8
Rootham Symphony 1 (Lyrita)
Stanley Bate (Symphony 3 and 4, Dutton) No 3 is wonderful, powerful, tonal, moving, defiant at the end - and Bate had a difficult life.
Klaus Egge: Symphony No 1 (might appeal to fans of Walton Symphony No 1)
Joubert Symphony 1 with Mathias Symphony 1 (Lyrita) - both excellent - lyrical, powerful, tonal, moving.
Hoddinott Symphony No 3 - not easy but has a gritty integrity and is ultimately rewarding
Braga Santos symphonies 3 and 4 (great composer - might appeal to Sibelius/Vaughan Williams fans.
Tubin - all symphonies
Holmboe symphonies 4,6,7,8,10
Miaskovsky (my favourite) symphonies 3,6,15-17,21,24,25,27
Weinberg nos 1,3,5 and 6
Arnell nos 3,4,5,6
Alwyn (all symphonies)
George Lloyd nos 4,7,8
Bantock, Hebriddean, Celtic, No 3
Arnold No 1,3,5,6,7,9
Lilburn symphonies 1 and 2
Wiren nos 3 and 4 (great!)
Ivanovs Nos 2,3,4,8,20 (last two on Naxos)
Popov Nos 1and 2
Eshpai Nos 4 and 5
David Diamond No 3 (v moving)
William Schuman (no 6)

[Latvian]

I have a near--oh, to hell with "near"--an obsession with the post-romantic and modern French symphony

X. Trapnel -- I couldn't agree more with your recommendations (and share your passion)! Roussel's #2 is my favorite of his as well; I adore the last two Magnard symphonies (and enjoy the first two); Chailley's #1 is stunning!

I also think Sauguet's #1 is magnificent, and deeply moving.

[mbhaub]

I'm perplexed by the omission of two of my favorite 20th century symphonists: Franz Schmidt and Humphrey Searle.

Schmidt wrote four magnificent works steeped in romantic tradition. The symphonies are tonal, masterfully orchestrated, and completely listener friendly. And the last two are profoundly moving. The 4th is, in my own opinion, one of the greatest symphonies of the century.

Searle is definitely not for everyone. If you don't like serialism, you'll hate Searle. Personally, I love it. It gets under your skin and you're hooked. The man is saying something: dark, creepy, and possible evil. I find them completely fascinating, entertaining and at the same time perplexing. It's not music for a relaxing evening, but if the mood is just right, they are incredibly effective. The CPO set is marvelous. For me, they're much more rewarding than the works of Robert Simpson or Rubbra. If you want to know what to expect, see the movie "The Haunting" -- the original 1960's creep out version, not the ridiculously stupid remake. Searle wrote the soundtrack.

[X. Trapnel]

Latvian--Glad to know I'm not alone in this. I recently tracked down a cd of the Chailley conducted by Manuel Rosenthal but prefer the version conducted (I think) by Jean Fournet, an Accord lp that never made it to cd (I keep hoping). I have to confess I was somewhat disappointed with the Sauguet symphonies; my expectations were raised up very high by his Melodie Concertante for cello and orch. written for Rostropovich, a sublime work. I'm also very fond of his Tableaux de Paris, unfortunately only available as part of a prohibitively expensive EMI set of Michel Plasson doing French music, most disks of which I, and I expect many here, already have. I'll give the Sauguet 1st another listen.

[eschiss1]

Fanfare reviewer Jerry Dubins (who I paraphrase neutrally) reviewed the cpo 2-CD set of Searle symphonies pointing out that he did not much care for serial/non-tonal (not the same thing in either direction, I know) music but enjoyed a lot about Searle's (and gave some background about his encounters with Searle- not the person, but Searle's writing- textbook, e.g.- and Searle's humor, contribution to the Hoffnung extravaganzas, etc. ...) - anyway, as an ex-math student I have some difficulties with the flat-out statement If you don't like serialism, you'll hate Searle." just saying! Couldn't resist...

Likewise with his contemporary Benjamin Frankel, also a film composer and composer for the concert hall (wrote a bit more chamber music - 5 string quartets, 2 sonatas for solo violin, e.g. - than Searle does, though I'd like to hear Searle's piano sonata which I've seen a bit of in score) ... who was also not alone in using serial techniques and producing tonal or almost-tonal results (or combining them very musically with tonal music- his 3rd and 5th symphonies and viola concerto being cases in point; the 5th symphony and viola concerto of Frankel both have a non-serial, more or less key-centered movement, and 2 other, more or less "serial" movements, but they sound like they belong in the same piece because they do; the 3rd symphony converts the major-mode opening material into a much more modern, chromatically-complicated and yes, serial version of itself in a one-movement, less than 20 minute span, but more with a sense of just different ways of looking at it- and that of itself is a very traditional artistic way of proceeding...)

[Rainolf]

@mbhaub

I'm not sure, if someone, who dislikes serialism would dislike Searle, too. The idiom of his 2nd symphony reminds me very much of Walton. It's hard to believe, that this should be 12-tone-music. Like it is with the works, Bernard Stevens wrote in the 60s: Constructed alongside 12-tone-rows, but the music realy doesn't sound Schoenbergian.

[ahinton]

@mbhaub

I'm not sure, if someone, who dislikes serialism would dislike Searle, too. The idiom of his 2nd symphony reminds me very much of Walton. It's hard to believe, that this should be 12-tone-music. Like it is with the works, Bernard Stevens wrote in the 60s: Constructed alongside 12-tone-rows, but the music realy doesn't sound Schoenbergian.

Writing as a pupil of Searle who recalls Searle and Stevens having occasional animated conversations outside their teaching rooms betwen lessons (they sometimes taught in neighbouring rooms), I cannot see why anyone might expect any music written by either (or indeed anyone else) using dodecaphonic principles should "sound Schönbergian" in any case, even if it could first be established what it is to "sound Schönbergian". Dodecaphony can be and has been used to ends which are by no means atonal and, in any case, "atonality" is a relative term whose meaning will also vary from listener to listener according to experience.

It's interesting that you should mention Walton in the context of Searle's Second Symphony (one of his better known works), especially in the light of the fact that Walton at one time asked for and received some lessons from Searle even though Searle was some 13 years his junior. Contextualising matters here prompts me to suggest that it might also worth be bearing in mind Searle's Liszt scholarship, since this occupied a very large part of his professional life at a time when much of Liszt's music was not well known to the general concert-going public; it has been conjectured that Liszt's documented but as yet still undiscovered (I think!) Prélude Omnitonique may well have been one of the early experiments in organising pitches serially.

[Rainolf]

I'm not a great admirer of Schoenberg, whose music seems often tough to me, but consider him a very good composer, even if there are not so many works by him I enjoy.

But I find it fascinating, how you can write music using Schoenberg's method, which sounds so completely different of his style. And so I would say, that maybee poeple, who dislike Schoenberg's style could have their pleasure with Searle's music.

It's how you say: A great composer can use 12-tone-rows in his own way and doesn't become a servant of the handicraft (as it is like in tonal music, too).

[Latvian]

I recently tracked down a cd of the Chailley conducted by Manuel Rosenthal but prefer the version conducted (I think) by Jean Fournet, an Accord lp that never made it to cd (I keep hoping).

Is the Rosenthal CD currently available? If so, where?

Are you familiar with Chailley's 2nd Symphony? I recently obtained a copy of a live performance which I can upload if interested, as well as a couple of other shorter works.

Yes, I also keep hoping the Fournet recording of the 1st Symphony makes it to CD someday!

[markniew]

There is also a number of symphonies by Polish composers - most of them only in radio archives recordings: Stojowski, Mycielski, Serocki, Sikorski, Malawski, Maliszewski and few others.

[Alan Howe]

Again, thank you everyone for your expert suggestions. I am making an ever-longer list! Please keep your contributions coming...

[Arbuckle]

Leif Segerstam started in 20th Century, still churning them out, somewhere over 200, I think.
Dag Wiren
Allan Pettersson (sp?)
Ellen Taafe Zwilich
Gloria Coates
Sergei Slonimsky and Alfred Schnittke, not sure if have been mentioned yet