Audience behaviour

[Mark Thomas]

Rather a digression this, but indulge me, please. We've been in the USA for a few days, staying in a city with a world-class symphony orchestra. We went to one of its concerts whilst we were there and were treated in the first half to a satisfying mix of a familiar European mainstream work and a tonal symphony by a contemporary American composer who was there to take his bow. The second half was a blazing performance of a great, popular late-romantic symphony.

We're regular concert goers in the UK, our orchestra of choice being the really rather good City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra under the excellent Andris Nelsons. Generally speaking British audiences are less demonstrative than American ones, we do get some people standing up applauding at the end of a particularly good performance, but a true standing ovation is rare, although applause generally lasts quite a while and the conductor (particularly Nelsons) is usually recalled a gratifying number of times.

We've attended maybe five concerts by this particular US orchestra over the last half a dozen years, most of them with world-famous conductors, and  we've noticed a definite change in audience behaviour. A standing ovation has become almost de rigeur, but it's coupled with an increasing number of people standing and immediately leaving even before the conductor has taken his first bow. Last weekend saw fully a quarter of the audience making for the exits whilst the applause continued, which not only totally destroyed the end of the concert for us, but also short-changed the performers. The leader, much more rapidly than he would have done in Birmingham, abruptly signalled the orchestra to leave the stage, even whilst the applause remained at what we would regard as healthy and entirely justified levels. Of course, it may be over-eagerness to get to the car parks ahead of the crowd, but that doesn't explain the same behaviour by both audience and orchestra at the end of the first half.

Is this now the norm in the US, or is it peculiar to this city/orchestra? Can our American concert-goers comment, please?

[jerfilm]

OK, Mark, comments from the Heartland.   We've been season subscribers to the Minnesota Orchestra for over 50 years.  There have been numerous changes, none of them much welcomed by me.  And probably other old timers.   Dress - in the 50's everyone was dressed to the nines including quite formal evening wear.  Suits, ties, and few dressed more casually than perhaps a turtle neck and sweater.  Today jeans seem to be the dress of the day, at least for younger audience members.  But then that's true even of many fine restaurants.  Young men love to wear their baseball caps indoors.  I digress......

Yes, in the past couple of years, more or less, I have not attended a performance that didn't, at some point, receive a standing ovation.  And much whistling, cheering and bravos.  (and the same is true of such as high school band concerts, etc.....).  With the Minnesota, perhaps it happens because in recent years under music directors such as Maestro Vanska our orchestra has matured so much that it's still hard to believe at times that they ARE that good. 

And the race for the exits.  It appears that many folks hate sitting and waiting to get out of a parking ramp (auto park) for 15 or 20 minutes so, yes, about a quarter of them make a dash for the doors to beat the crowd.  Especially in the deepest part of Minnesota winter.

And of course, everyone has to be reminded to turn off their cell phones and pagers.....

Things ain't what they used to be.......

Jerry

[dafrieze]

I've been attending concerts in Boston since 1972.  From my observation, it's always been the norm.  I used to think it was because people were trying to catch the last commuter train to their suburban homes, until I found out that most commuter trains stop running out of Boston before the Saturday night symphony concert finishes.  Many people leave as soon as they can because there are only a handful of parking lots in the area around Symphony Hall, and they want to get their cars out and on the road before everybody else leaving the concert does the same.  I think it's also just mindless rudeness:  they've heard their music, they've gotten what they came for, and now they're leaving.  Audiences of the Boston Symphony, like those of many long-established orchestras (at least in America), are not uniformly made up of music-lovers.  Many come to see and be seen, or because it's good for business, or because the tickets have been in the family since the turn of the 20th century.  Classical music is considered by many prominent (i. e. wealthy) people to be a civic obligation as much as anything else.  And it's a tax write-off. 

[Mark Thomas]

... not that I said it was Boston ...

[semloh]

Yes, I think the rush for the doors is all about getting on the road instead of being caught in a traffic jam. It happens at all big events here in Aus.

Middle-class America is renowned for being polite and respectful (and especially in Boston! ) so it is very disappointing to hear that this is happening at concerts. It must be disheartening for the performers. But then, I think we live in an increasingly impatient world - nobody is prepared to wait, for anything! 

[Alan Howe]

Try the magnificent response to the Proms Gothic performance. I was there, I was there - and it was stupendous!

[Mark Thomas]

True, Alan, and the contrast between the audience that night, all of whom were there because of the music, and the mixed-motive Boston audiences described by Dafrieze is very clear.

[jerfilm]

Well, I must tell you that I envy and respect you Brits.  Traditions is a word which doesn't seem to be in our American vocabulary......

Jerry

[dafrieze]

I will add, however, that this sort of behavior is only typical with audiences for the Boston Symphony or the Handel & Haydn Society.  Benjamin Zander has an extremely loyal and enthusiastic audience for his Boston Philharmonic Orchestra, and they tend to stick around until the final curtain call.

[mbhaub]

Standing ovations are common, generally uncalled for, and have become meaningless. I see the exact same behavior you describe all over the place. Just last week I heard an ok, not great, performance of the Elgar violin concerto. As soon as it was over it was everybody up! Not me, and not many more seasoned (older) concert goers who have a long history of performances to judge better. And yes, people leave quickly to get to cars, train, bus.

Dress standards are non-existent. It's so discouraging to see people in street clothes or dressed like they're going to a party or orgy later on. But then, I loathe the way people dress on airplanes, too.

The absolute worst thing about modern audiences though it the talking, dropping of program booklets, cell phones ringing. A few weeks ago I went to see Gounod's Faust. A woman a few seats away took it on herself to describe every scene to her 8 or 9 year old son who didn't understand what was going on. Finally, one brave man told her quite abruptly to shut her g** d*** mouth or go home. It's getting rough out there!

[edurban]

Based on my experience, Americans will now give a standing ovation to almost anything.  It has been widely reported that every night the audiences at popular Broadway shows give a standing ovation....ditto the NY Phil.  The combination of some audience members racing out at the final chord while others jump up hollering to demonstrate their 'superior taste'  creates a traffic mess in the rows that pretty much drives all thoughts of art out the window.  Particularly galling when the idiot standing to applaud next to you was sitting there checking his text messages 20 minutes before. 

Then there was the woman who took a cel (mobile) call during the soprano's mad scene at the end of Tsar's Bride a few years back... The people at Mostly Mozart who beat time in their seats every time there's a melody they recognize...

Aargh!

David

[Jimfin]

If people have to rush for a train, it is understandable. As teenager, I had to rush out of Proms concerts to catch the last train back to near Cambridge, and after one performance of 'A Child of our Time' missed seeing Sir Michael Tippett take a bow, much to my subsequent chagrin. But if people are driving it seems the height of rudeness to rush out, just to get ahead in the queues. Here in Japan, people tend to stay applauding (and usually seated) for quite some time. Rushing is considered a bit infra dig.

[Christopher]

Here in Moscow standing ovations and tonnes of flowers and repeat curtain calls are de rigeur, but never seem forced. I think they reflect as much the esteem in which artists (and the intelligentsia) are held generally as they do admiration for any particular performance.  The only other groups that match this esteem are war veterans and maybe some sports stars; politicans are certainly not respected.

[Ilja]

Standing ovations are common, generally uncalled for, and have become meaningless. I see the exact same behavior you describe all over the place. Just last week I heard an ok, not great, performance of the Elgar violin concerto. As soon as it was over it was everybody up! Not me, and not many more seasoned (older) concert goers who have a long history of performances to judge better.

The problem with that is that once you remain seated whilst everyone is standing, you may give a quite unjustified impression of disapproval. As the mean shifts, constant values become mobile themselves.

[Mark Thomas]

you may give a quite unjustified impression of disapproval

An excellent point, Ilja. We certainly felt the pressure at the end of the first half of the concert which prompted this thread. Neither the performance, nor the piece warranted the reception which it received. The end of the second half was different, we were happy to join the ovation, only to have people squeeze past us in their desperation to leave the hall.