Out now: Joachim Raff, Works for Choir, Piano & Orchestra

[TerraEpon]

I'm almost sure I've seen mentioned or reviewed commercial CDs as long as 82 minutes? but with the caveat that they don't work on all players...
Eric

The longest is 82:30. The longest I know of is the first disc of the first Sibelius Edition box (tone poems. Highly recommended to all here!). It's 82:27 (so long it doesn't have the standard 20 seconds of quiet that other BIS CDs do). I have quite a number of other CDs over 80 minutes as well.

Apparently, anything above 77:30 carries the exact same amount of 'risk' of not playing. ALSO apparently, Robert von Bahr of BIS said he's never gotten a single complaint.

[TerraEpon]

I bought a dvd box set of Amazon today,and one reviewer was grumbling that the uk release (a US show) was on 3 discs as opposed to the USA version's 4. He reckoned that the sampling rate to get it onto 3 dvd's resulted in an inferior picture quality. Whether this would affect the quality of a cd,I don't know.

Nope. The CD standard specifies that all audio will be at exactly 44/16 no matter how long. So a 10 minute CD or an 80 minute CD, nothing about the length will affect the quality.
A DVD however can hold higher quality video at a cost of taking up more space, as it's compressed. It's more like different qualities of Mp3s.

[Peter1953]

Die Tageszeiten is, to my ears, the main course of the CD. The stunning piano opening and the heartfelt andante with its subtle piano writing and intense melody, are ever so beautiful.
However, the other three works are hardly less interesting. I’m particularly caught by Einer Entschlafenen because of the serene melody. The opening reminds me, only for a few seconds, of Brahms’s Alto Rhapsody. And what a gorgeous wind playing opening of the fourth movement of Die Sterne.

For fully enjoying these works it is, as I see it, necessary to read Dr Avrohom Leichtling’s liner notes. This will give you so much more valuable information about the music, especially the texts. What is it all about? How did Raff combine the text with his music? And there is another (probably personal) reason why the notes are very valuable. Although I speak the German language rather well, I just can’t recognize the words the choir sings. So I listen while reading the text in the booklet at the same time.

Except for Morgenlied (by JG Jacobi) the English translation of all other poetry (by Raff and Raff’s daughter) is done by Alan! Both Mark and Alan deserve our congratulations for their contributions to the release of this wonderful Raff CD.

[Kriton]

I still didn't get The Tageszeiten, but I'll place an order immediately, based on all your comments in this thread. Are there any works for/with piano & orchestra by Raff left unrecorded, or is this it?

During my vacation I visited some interesting music stores in Amsterdam and Berlin (it was to be either Duisburg or Berlin and, reading the news, I now see we've made the right decision). In Berlin I found a CD which I didn't even know existed - probably since it was released only a couple of years after I was born... It's a Claves disc with the D minor Konzertstück by Busoni coupled with the G major Konzertstück and the piano concerto by Raff, played by a certain Jean-Francois Antonioli.

I wonder if I now have all recordings by the Raff Konzertstück & concerto, since I know of only 3 each. (It of course made me wonder again what else I may have missed, since a programme for a CD can hardly get any more interesting...)

Rather ridiculous, perhaps, to have the Konzertstück & concerto threefold, but neither the suite or the Tageszeiten, but I was afraid I'd never find this 22-years old (!) CD somewhere else!

By the way, in Amsterdam I finally picked up the Hyperion Vol. 50. I already regret that decision!

[Ilja]

For me, the Antonioli is probably the best recording of Raff's great piano concerto (don't care that much about the Busoni, to be frightfully honest). Ponti is at least as much fun, but I can't quite get past the comedy factor.

[Kriton]

For me, the Antonioli is probably the best recording of Raff's great piano concerto (don't care that much about the Busoni, to be frightfully honest). Ponti is at least as much fun, but I can't quite get past the comedy factor.

I'm listening to the recording as I write, and I have to agree with you. As far as Raff goes, anyway. The Busoni I really like - but that's just because I'm a die-hard Busoni fanatic

[Mark Thomas]

Kriton wrote:

Are there any works for/with piano & orchestra by Raff left unrecorded, or is this it?

Raff has done very well in recent years. With the two recent Sterling CDs, the previous one including the Suite for Piano & Orchestra, not only is "that it" for the works for piano and orchestra, there are no purely orchestral or concerted works by Raff left unrecorded, including the free-standing overtures and preludes to operas and choral works. Also all his significant chamber music has been recorded (if not yet issued in a few cases) apart from the Cello Sonata and a Suite for Violin and Piano. Of course, there are still six operas, at least half a dozen more large works for chorus and orchestra and a whole library of piano music and songs to go at!

I do agree with Ilja and Kriton about Antonioli's performance of the Piano Concerto - by some way the best on CD (with apologies to fans of Ponti).

[eschiss1]

Kriton wrote:

Are there any works for/with piano & orchestra by Raff left unrecorded, or is this it?

Raff has done very well in recent years. With the two recent Sterling CDs, the previous one including the Suite for Piano & Orchestra, not only is "that it" for the works for piano and orchestra, there are no purely orchestral or concerted works by Raff left unrecorded, including the free-standing overtures and preludes to operas and choral works. Also all his significant chamber music has been recorded (if not yet issued in a few cases) apart from the Cello Sonata and a Suite for Violin and Piano. Of course, there are still six operas, at least half a dozen more large works for chorus and orchestra and a whole library of piano music and songs to go at!

I do agree with Ilja and Kriton about Antonioli's performance of the Piano Concerto - by some way the best on CD (with apologies to fans of Ponti).

Hope someone will get on the cello sonata, though!
Eric

[DennisS]

I would just like to now officially sing the praises of the new Sterling disc of Raff choral works. It's difficult to find the right superlatives to adequately describe this disc and all those who have already acquired the cd,  know just how superb the latest Raff release is. Perhaps if I say this cd is  already my favourite cd of all time  of choral works, not just by Raff but indeed by any composer, is testament to what I feel about the 4 absolutely outstanding works on the cd. We are all indebted to Mark for his part in the production of this cd.

Cheers
Dennis

[Mark Thomas]

I blush...

[Alan Howe]

And so you should, Mark. With head held high, of course!

[mbhaub]

I finally got to hear this wonderful, thrilling disk. WHERE HAS THIS MUSIC BEEN? Die Tageszeiten is a masterpiece: original, beautifully scored, interesting and 40 minutes of marvelous music making. If proof was ever needed of Raff's genius, here it is. This brings together several other threads:

First, as to bad music. Not this Raff! But I just can't stand the Beethoven Choral Fantasy. Talk about overrated. Raff is so much more enjoyable on every level.

Secondly, regarding packaging. I've never encountered a cd box like this. But I love it. Because of the plastic used it won't crack or chip. The hinges won't snap off. Surprisingly it occupies no more space than a normal jewel box. I would like to see all disks released in this friendlier container.

Third: the booklet is exemplary. Bravo Avrohom where ever you are!

WHo would have thought 30 years ago that there would be so much Raff to hear today? I thought getting the symphonies was a miracle. Now we have chamber music, solo piano music, concerti, and choral music. Now -- on to an opera!!!!!!

[TerraEpon]

I got this the other day -- and once again I'm amazed at how wonderful Raff is. I'm /this/ close to start becoming a Raff 'completionist' (i.e try to get recordings of as many works of his as I can). Would be a lot of money though, even with as much unrecorded as there is (lack of box sets hurts).

The liner notes are fantastic too. I especially liked the analysis of the second movement of Die Tageszeiten

[Mark Thomas]

At the risk of sounding smug, thanks for the thumbs up, TerraEpon. It's really satisfying that so many have found this CD so rewarding, especially so when I recall what a leap in the dark it was. I knew of  Die Tageszeiten and Die Sterne, of course, but had never heard them and my score reading skills certainly aren't up to judging the value of a work before I hear it. It was Tra Nguyen, the pianist, who persuaded me that Tageszeiten must be recorded, and how right she was. Sterne was an even bigger leap of faith as it was still in manuscript and had never been performed before the recording sessions.

Sitting in the fourth row at the Umeå concert hall, the only audience for the recording sessions, and hearing the glorious first movement of Tageszeiten being played for the first time in over 100 years or the magical fourth movement of Sterne get its first ever performance must rank as amongst the high spots of my musical life. This Unsung business can be a very rewarding one.