The worst

[chill319]

... generally I think that [Grieg]'s a greatly overrated composer who had the happy luck of being able to write good tunes.

No doubt about the melodic gift. But Grieg also commanded an instantly recognizable harmonic vocabulary that (here agreeing with Alan's view) reached its highwater mark in some of the shorter works -- Lyric Pieces and especially the chromatic and modal settings of folk tunes, opp. 66 and 73. Ask Delius if Grieg was overrated...  And consider Debussy's reviews of Grieg, which, though not uncritical, indicate that Grieg was an influence Debussy paid attention to in the 1890s. Beyond the short works, anyone who has not listened to the third violin sonata or first string quartet lately may raise their estimation of Grieg by so doing.

That said, I agree, Mark, that many works by the  later 19th century Germanic composers I've learned about through this forum have aged better (for me) than Grieg has. (Not to mention that I've enjoyed Winter Legends at least 10 times since the last time I put on Grieg's concerto.)

I do ask myself, though, whether my perspective on the once-radical anti-academic or extra-academic stance of a Grieg, MacDowell, or especially Balakirev and company is determined more by the cultural cycle I live in than it is by the music itself.

[thalbergmad]

What a pathetic discussion this is.

How many of the critics hereon could write a note of music that anyone would want to hear? Those who can, do; those who cannot, they post their immature impressions.

I once held this group in high esteem; now some of the contributors look to me like asses.

1. Agreed
2. One does not have to be able to do something oneself in order to criticise others doing it. We are all consumers and the survival of the classical music world is dependent on our likes and dislikes whether we are asses or not.
3. I still hold this group in high esteem, but as i said before, no good will come out of this thread. I think perhaps you might be taking it a little too seriously.

Thal

[Mark Thomas]

O.K. It seemed to me that this topic might have been a bit of harmless fun, but clearly I was mistaken. 

One of the precious things about this Forum is that it avoids descending into the sort of mud-slinging which characterises so many others. So for good or ill, I'm closing down this topic before things go any further.

Can I ask, please, that if you strongly disagree with something which has been posted, you do so in a temperate and well-mannered way? You may think it prissy, it might be old-fashioned, but it's the way we do things here.