Schoenberg's legacy for romantics

[Amphissa]

 
A largely ignored Schoenberg piece is his Gurre-Lieder. I am not a fan of serialism and find most of Schoenberg's later music deeply uninteresting. But the Gurre-Lieder is in a different class entirely. Huge, lush, late romantic, in which the influences of Brahms and Wagner meld into music of Mahlerian proportions. (The premier was conducted by another unsung -- Franz Schreker.)

This is a new piece to me. My sole exposure to it is a video of a 2009 concert broadcast on television conducted by Jansons. What a revelation!

The only music of Schoenberg which I had ever previously enjoyed was his Verklärte Nacht, of which I have many recordings of both the chamber and orchestral versions. But I like the Gurre-Lieder even better.

I know nothing of the history of the Gurre-Lieder, other than the very little I've read on Wikipedia. (Yes, I know, a dreadful source, but an easy place to start.) It seems that I read on a discussion board or somewhere, long ago, that it was well received by both audience and critics when it premiered, but by then Schoenberg had moved on to his serialism and scoffed at the adulation.

I would be interested in knowing more about the Gurre-Lieder. Your personal insights, and any reading you think worth following up on.

The only recording I have is the video. I would be interested in recommendations for a recording (CD, SACD, LP or DVD) that you think is excellent.

And, I wonder now whether I've missed other works by Schoenberg that I should track down?

I find it terribly sad. Based on the Gurre-Lieder and Verklärte Nacht, it is obvious that Schoenberg was very talented and could have become one of the great "sung" composers. It is really unfortunate that he went down the path he chose. I'm sure there are many who admire his later music, but I do not and would have preferred to have much more like these two early works.
 

[sdtom]

I agree. 

[Kriton]

The only recording I have is the video. I would be interested in recommendations for a recording (CD, SACD, LP or DVD) that you think is excellent.

I am a Gurrelieder fanatic, and the only performances of that work I haven't got yet, are the new one by Salonen and an old one by Stokowski. Together with Mahler's Lied von der Erde and Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony it must rank as one of the best examples of over-the-top Viennese weltschmerz Works from the turn of the century. I could go into detail and give you the pros and cons of every recording, but I hope you accept my recommendation of the fairly recent Gielen recording on Hänssler. It may be the most expensive recordings around (SACD) - at least, it was when I bought it - but the sound is amazing. Gielen has the perfect credentials (Mahler, 2nd Viennese School recordings), the sound engineering is absolutely stunning (it is, in any case, the most "musically detailled" recording around) and the vocal soloists are excellent, with special praise for Robert Dean Smith, who (as usual) sings his role as if it were the proverbial (and rather pleasant) walk in the park - not many have sung this role, even less have managed to do it with such feeling and, at the same time, technical perfection.

And, I wonder now whether I've missed other works by Schoenberg that I should track down?

You mentioned the string sextet "Verklärte Nacht". You could go back a step and listen to his Dvorákian string quartet "No. 0" in D major. A rather unassuming piece with some beautiful melodies nonetheless. Or, you could go "forward" and take on his string quartet No. 1 in d minor. In the symphonic genre, there is his huge "d minor" tone poem Pelleas und Melisande, which should bring you closer to the atmosphere of the Gurrelieder. More early works exist, although I don't find every piece interesting. I do really like the works that bend and even break the rules of tonality, like his 2nd string quartet and his 1st chamber symphony - especially the latter is a powerful work, if you're willing to spend time and effort to get to know it. There's is some tonal music amongst late Schönberg; I've always had a weak spot for the 2nd chamber symphony, which sounds like good film music (I suspect John Williams stealing one of the tunes for an Indiana Jones film). You'll also find a suite for string orchestra, variations for wind orchestra and 2 concerto adaptations. That's not monumental Schönberg, though - more Schönberg gone Stravinsky (although it's not as plastic as actual Stravinsky, if I dare say that).

Well, hope you can use some of this!

[Kriton]

I agree. 

I do not, but I understand why you do.

[Amphissa]

 
Thanks for your recommendations and insights, Kriton. I have a very good SACD player in my system, so I'll go with the Gielen that you recommend. And I'll look around for some of the other works you've mentioned.
 

[mbhaub]

Pelleas is one of the great sound wallows of all time. Sumptuous. GurreLieder also. The modern versions sure make it sound better, but don't miss the old Stokowski recording (you might be able to find his Andante set with Philadelphia). One of his essentials, to my ear -- bad sound and all.

And although Herr Schoenberg would be upset, I think his best work is the orchestration of the Brahms g-minor quartet. Brilliant!

[Kriton]

Pelleas is one of the great sound wallows of all time. Sumptuous. GurreLieder also. The modern versions sure make it sound better, but don't miss the old Stokowski recording (you might be able to find his Andante set with Philadelphia). One of his essentials, to my ear -- bad sound and all.

Thank you, I will make acquiring this a priority now!

And although Herr Schoenberg would be upset, I think his best work is the orchestration of the Brahms g-minor quartet. Brilliant!

Not only Herr Schönberg. The orchestration is an interesting piece of work, but doesn't share the orchestral sound world of Brahms - the percussion effects in the finale are particularly obscene - so that we have a piece that isn't quite Schönberg, but not quite Brahms, either. Fun to listen to, but to call this "his best work" is rather ridiculous, don't you agree?

[mbhaub]

Yes, I agree. But there's still a bit of truth in it. When I look at concert programs around the world, Schoenberg's name is relatively absent. Almost no one plays his music. But that Brahms arrangement has been getting quite a bit of concert time in recent years. The Rattle concert and DVD sure helped. For many people, Schoenberg's name will eventually be more familiar as an arranger than as a composer, I fear. A simple truth remains: there is not one composition from the 12-tone, serialist, Second Viennese school that has made it into the standard repertoire. And here we are 70 years after they stopped doing it. The American serialists of the 50's and 60's: nothing. And sadly, that may be Schoenberg's real legacy: he destroyed the trust between composers and audiences. But I have to soften my statement: there are two works that are staples these days: the Berg violin concerto and his opera Wozzeck.

But fortunately, Schoenberg left us Verklarte Nacht, Pelleas und Melisande, and Gurre-Lieder which will keep his work alive.

[Hovite]

I think his best work is the orchestration of the Brahms g-minor quartet.

I agree.

[ahinton]

It used to be said (mainly in America, where Schönberg eventually turned into Schoenberg but never truly settled) that the best way to empty a concert hall was to put his work on the programme; it is astonishing that he is still being forced to court controversy almost 60 years after his death. It is untrue to say that he was writing serial music at the time of Gurrelieder's première; he did not begin to do so for at least another decade. His style had certainly undergone some radical changes by the time that this work was first heard, but then how could he - even he - have gone on developing the manner and matter of works such as Gurrelieder? Unlike his not so very much younger students Webern and Berg, Schönberg left quite a sizeable legacy of music that belongs firmly in the Romantic tradition, for all that much of it is already seeking to break out of it - and there can be no doubt that a substantial proportion of this music is of unparalleled excellence; the sheer virtuosity of his orchestral imagination in Pelleas and Gurrelieder is such as to put even Mahler and Strauss in the shade, his control of complex form as exemplified in the D minor quartet and E major chamber symphony is no less remarkable, fusing as it does with immense aplomb the structural developments in works such as the piano sonata and symphonic poems of Liszt, the mature musikdramas of Wagner and the post-classical complexities of Brahms and his harmonic language propels the Chopin/Wagner/Mahler axis into the twentieth century and infuses it with the kind of immediacy and urgency that so naturally led to the breaking of the bonds of tonality towards which those three composers' own work inevitably moves.

The orchestration of the Brahms was a genuinely felt tribute to a master whose work he respected almost as much as he did Mozart and, whilst it's certainly neither "Brahms" nor "Schönberg" per se (nor was it meant to be!), it is indeed fun - and far more than that - and the original is such a wonderful piece anyway!

My principal disappointments with the later Schönberg are the dissolving of the controlled hypertension that inhabits the E major chamber symphony and Erwartung in particular as well as his increasingly cavalier attitude to orchestration that seems very much at odds with the fastidiously detailed craft of his earlier orchestral writing. That Schönberg never altogether abandoned tonality in his later work, however, is arguably most evident in the E flat minor chamber symphony but is also notable in many other ostensibly "atonal" works where no effort is made to conceal tonal references.

To return to my opening remarks, it remains a constant source of puzzlement to me that Schönberg, whose legacy is one of the greatest of the first half of the last century, continues to excite such perplexity and animosity, even nowadays when his works are far more widely - and usually better - performed than was the case during the composer's final years.

[Alan Howe]

When I listen to Schoenberg's VC, it's almost as if I'm hearing music written by an alien (i.e. an ET!) For some reason or other I'm always put in mind of that classic sci-fi film Forbidden Planet set on the planet Altair IV. Humans live there, but the topography is definitely not earth-like and there aren't any maps to help us get around. And on top of this, a fearful monster - that of Morbius' id - is stalking the landscape. Schoenberg's twelve-tone system, perhaps...?

I agree, though, that Schoenberg couldn't have gone on writing music in the mould of Gurrelieder and Pelleas und Melisande.

[FBerwald]

To return to my opening remarks, it remains a constant source of puzzlement to me that Schönberg, whose legacy is one of the greatest of the first half of the last century, continues to excite such perplexity and animosity, even nowadays when his works are far more widely - and usually better - performed than was the case during the composer's final years.

Dear ahinton,
   
Its not so much as question of animosity as sheer incomprehension. Let me put my case to you. I'm from India (Kerala) and we don't have as much exposure to classical (western) as ... say ppl in the west mainly because of the strong presence of Indian Classical and Film music. Had it not been for a severe bouts of chickenpox and subsequent bed-rest for about a month during which my only source of entertainment was my FM radio I'd never have discovered the wonderful  world of western-classical !! The 1st classical piece I ever heard was the Nielsen - Suite for strings followed by Saint-saens Wedding Cake. These were to be followed by Berwald, strauss etc, and let me tell you if Schoenberg had been anywhere in that list I might have tuned my radio off and I might have never learned Piano. So I'm eternally grateful to GOD for protecting me from Schoenberg in those early days .. Ofcourse I can stomach Schoenberg at times now (very briefly though)!!!

[giles.enders]

I too am a fan of Gurre lieder.  What I find interesting is that it was premiered just weeks after The Right of Spring and attitudes changed.  I always put Gurre lieder in the same category as Boito's Mephistophele, both a little too richly orchestrated but I wouldn't be with out them

[ahinton]

To return to my opening remarks, it remains a constant source of puzzlement to me that Schönberg, whose legacy is one of the greatest of the first half of the last century, continues to excite such perplexity and animosity, even nowadays when his works are far more widely - and usually better - performed than was the case during the composer's final years.

Dear ahinton,
   
Its not so much as question of animosity as sheer incomprehension. Let me put my case to you. I'm from India (Kerala) and we don't have as much exposure to classical (western) as ... say ppl in the west mainly because of the strong presence of Indian Classical and Film music. Had it not been for a severe bouts of chickenpox and subsequent bed-rest for about a month during which my only source of entertainment was my FM radio I'd never have discovered the wonderful  world of western-classical !! The 1st classical piece I ever heard was the Nielsen - Suite for strings followed by Saint-saens Wedding Cake. These were to be followed by Berwald, strauss etc, and let me tell you if Schoenberg had been anywhere in that list I might have tuned my radio off and I might have never learned Piano. So I'm eternally grateful to GOD for protecting me from Schoenberg in those early days .. Ofcourse I can stomach Schoenberg at times now (very briefly though)!!!

With respect, you are relating your own personal experience from a non-Western background, whereas my observation centred on a far more wide-ranging and globally based response, even from those in the West whose backgrounds would, one assumes, enable them to be more familiar with a substantial swathe of Western "classical" music and it is this scenario that gives rise to my puzzlement that Schönberg is still widely regarded  as something of a "problem" composer so long after his death. I cannot see for the life of me how God would have protected you from Schönberg anyway - or even why He would have wanted to!

[Delicious Manager]

There are other works apart from Verklärte Nacht, Pelleas and Melisande and Gurrelieder that most people here would not find 'offensive'. For example (apologies for any duplications):

String Quartet No 1 in D minor Op 7 - Inhabits the same sound-world as Verklärte Nacht.
6 Orchestral Songs for soprano and orchestra Op 8 - tremendous post-Wagnerian, post-Mahlerian late Romanticism. A joy to listen to!
Chamber Symphony No 1 Op 9 - rather like pared-down Mahler and very skillfully written.
String Quartet No 2 in F-sharp minor (with soprano) Op 10 - by now a little more harmonically 'stretched', but still firmly rooted in Romanticism
Friede auf Erden Op 13 - a choral work that might suggest the vocal writing in Berg's future writing in Wozzeck.
5 Pieces for Orchestra Op 16 - A lot more 'difficult', but still with a clear lineage back to late Mahler
Erwartung Op 17 - a monodrama in one act for soprano and orchestra - a slight step back from the precipice of Op 16 and, for me, a natural successor to Verklärte Nacht.
Die glückliche Hand Op 18 - a drama with music, for voices and orchestra and the companion piece to Erwartung.

If one listens to these pieces in order (or perhaps the last ones in the order Op 17, Op 18, Op 16), I believe this gives the listener a much better chance to appreciate Schoenberg's compositional qualities and to accept him as the great master he was.