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Messages - saxtromba

#31
This was a Russian Disc recording in its earlier incarnation.  I haven't listened to it in a while, but recall thinking that the climax/finale of the last movement was slightly unbalanced between the chorale and the accompaniment, with the latter standing out a bit much.  Otherwise, generally good; energetic, yet with some room for warmth.  If you don't have it, and you like Rubinstein, it's definitely worth buying.
#32
Composers & Music / Re: Vaclav Dobias Symphony No.2
Friday 30 March 2012, 16:03
Glad to see this great piece getting some acknowledgement.  Some years ago I had the good fortune to pick up  bunch of Supraphon LPs featuring 'iron curtain' composers, discovering in the process an impressive number of really good works.  Even in that company, though, this was one of the standouts.  I especially like the second movement, which is an absolutely thrilling mix of high energy virtuosity and downright creepy orchestration.  It is a sad comment on the market-driven musical world of North America that pieces like this stand virtually no chance of ever being performed, so that we must rely on a single fifty-plus year old recording....
#33
Composers & Music / Re: Compositions in more than one key
Thursday 09 February 2012, 16:12
Franz Schubert's first string quartet is customarily listed as being in c minor/B-Flat Major (and even that doesn't quite cover its tonal digressions!).
#34
Composers & Music / Re: Gottfried von Einem(1918-1996)
Wednesday 18 January 2012, 16:37
Check out The Bruckner Dialogues, which is a quite striking salute to a composer quite different yet somehow closely linked.
#35
Anton Rubinstein's influence was quite large.  Janacek wanted very much to study with Rubinstein (according to Janacek himself, his letter asking about composition lesson chased Rubinstein around Europe for a year, then returned unopened), and Rubinstein's Op. 99 Piano Quintet was among the scores Janacek retained until he died (there are moments in R's work, and not just the Quintet, which sound somewhat 'Janacekien').  Isaac Albeniz was known as 'the Spanish Rubinstein', and not just for his playing (his concerto echoes both R's first and third).  And of course Tchaikovsky studied with Rubinstein, and there are little flashes of influence all over T's music.  Stojowoski dedicated one of his piano concertos, and Asger Hamerik dedicated his first symphony, to Rubinstein.
#36
Composers & Music / Re: Rubinstein’s Piano Concerto No. 2
Wednesday 18 January 2012, 16:28
I have always loved this concerto, even before it had been recorded (I was able to see a two-piano score and play the slow movement-- but not the others!).  It has a joie de vivre which very few other concerti have.  Even Balakirev had at least some respect for it; it was one of the concerti he specifically studied when composing his own first concerto.  It deserves to be much better known; I would rank it with Beethoven 3, and above either of the Liszt concerti, for example.
#37
Composers & Music / Re: Sigismond Thalberg
Sunday 08 January 2012, 18:59
Unmentioned thus far is Thalberg's one sonata (c minor, Op. 56), which I have always thought would be a natural for a barnstorming finale to a recital.  Adrian Ruiz released a vigorous performance on a Genesis LP many years ago; if there's been a CD release, I've not heard it, or even heard of it.  But it's worth tracking the piece down; while it's not what you could call profound music, there's remarkably little fat on its bones, so that the virtuosic elements stand out all the more thrillingly. especially in the last movement (with which I think Alkan and Saint-Saens must have been familiar).
#38
Composers & Music / Re: Preludes in all the keys
Friday 23 December 2011, 16:03
So far as I know, there's only one composer who actually wrote music in all the major and minor keys: Johann Christian Heinrich Rinck (1770-1846), who wrote two sets, each of 30 pieces, covering even the rarely used enharmonic keys (a# minor, C# Major, Ab minor, and Cb Major).  One set, Op. 55 for organ, was Preludes; the other, for piano, Op. 67, was 'Exercises'.

A brief bio, though one which doesn't mention his unique achievement: http://www.naxos.com/person/Johann_Heinrich_Christian_Rinck/26299.htm
#39
Having read through all the above posts, it seems that there are two relevant discussions going on here.  One is simply a list of symphonies people think worthwhile; another (the more interesting, imo) is an attempt to determine whether or not some sort of great symphonic tradition has been lost or abandoned by recent composers.

This latter reminds me of the story about Brahms and Mahler.  Supposedly they were walking along a mountain stream and Brahms was declaring sadly that when he died the great symphonic tradition would die with him.  Mahler suddenly stopped, pointed at the stream, and exclaimed.  'What is it?' Brahms asked. 'The last wave,' Mahler replied.  Brahms acknowledged the humor but not the point.  Something of the same sort seems to me to be going on in discussions which attempt to demand that music follow a prescribed path or be declared to somehow be out of bounds.

Nor am I a big fan of claims that music needs to become more 'accessible'.  Henry Pleasants made this charge in The Agony of Modern Music decades ago, arguing that jazz would be the salvation of serious music.  It wasn't.  Now David Matthews is making the same sort of claim about rock.  It isn't (just listen to Glass's desperate attempt to inflate pop music into a symphony (his David Bowie piece for a demonstration).  But the fact, so far as I can see it, is that music doesn't need saving.  Rather, music education does.  There is less and less of it, and what there is is too often truncated or squeezed in with other, unrelated, matters.  As a result, listeners are simply not equipped to be interested in music that doesn't conform to 'masterpiece marketing' (but this is another topic).

So, back to the great tradition  Is there anyone who would argue that there were 150 genuine masterpieces of the symphony between 1810 and 1960?  Let's assume so, especially since 'masterpiece' is a pretty flexible term.  I have taken the liberty of providing a list of symphonies, one per year, from 1961 to 1986, a list created in about 20 minutes of scanning Baker's and a few CDs for confirmation of dates.  Every one these, I would say indisputably, composed by someone not only aware of but working within the 'great tradition' (although I don't necessarily endorse each and every one of these as a 'masterpiece' per se).  This suggests to me that there is no genuine downturn in either the tradition or works connected to it.

1961: Shostakovitch 12
1962: Shostakovitch 13*
1963: Brian 21
1964: Toch 7
1965: Harris 10
1966: Harrison 'on G'*
1967: Pettersson 7*
1968: Schuman 9
1969: Shostakovitch 14*
1970: Aho 2*
1971: Shostakovitch 15*
1972: Pettersson 10*
1973: Sallinen 2
1974: Pettersson 12
1975: Schuman 10
1976: Aho 5
1977: Hanson 6*
1978: Pettersson 14
1979: Sallinen 4
1980: Aho 6
1981: Simpson 8
1982: Creston 6*
1983: Graunke 7
1984: [oops- I somehow missed this year; I'll throw in Holmboe's 1988 12th, since he hasn't even been mentioned yet :) ]
1985: Sallinen 5
1986: Rautavaara 5

I am sure that plenty of people will rush to add symphonies I've 'forgotten.'  This will simply help make the point more fully....
#40
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 28 November 2011, 08:07
The previous post ignores IMHO a considerable number of masterpieces:
Mozart 29, 35, 38
Beethoven 1, 2, 4, 6, 8
Berlioz Harold in Italy, Romeo et Juliette
Schumann 1, 2, 3
Mendelssohn 3
Liszt Faust
Rufinatscha 5, 6
Bruckner 6
Tchaikovsky 5
Raff 2-5
Draeseke 2, 3
Dvorak 6
Mahler - all?
Nielsen - all?
Shostakovich 1, 4
Elgar 1, 2
Prokofiev 1, 6
and many, many more....
Without wanting to hijack the thread, but in the interests of refining our understanding of what you mean by "masterpieces", could I ask a few follow-up questions?  Do you really consider, for example, Beethoven 1 & 2 to be at the level of, say, Mozart 40 and Haydn 44, or even Beethoven's own 3 & 7 (please note that I did, btw, include 6)?  Is every Mahler symphony as good as every other one?  Is Draeseke really at the level of Bruckner 8?  And so on.

I am sympathetic to many of these symphonies, and even love some of them (Bruckner's and Nielsen's 6, e.g.).  But I took the parameters here quite seriously, and given the implication of the word 'masterpiece', I'd even lop off some of the ones I mentioned, let alone these others.  Schumann is a wonderful composer, but I just can't see any of his symphonies as operating at or even near the level of Beethoven 3.  Likewise Mendelssohn.  The shattering impacts of Bruckner 9 or Shostakovitch 5, for example, combined with their technical strengths, raise these works above even others by the same composers (Bruckner 3 and Shostakovitch 7) which are otherwise powerful or enjoyable on their own.

By these standards, then, I am claiming that the number of truly great symphonies is always small (though the number of very good symphonies is much larger and possibly more subject to fluctuation from era to era).  But in either case, I see Aho, Pettersson, late Shostakovitch, Sallinen, and many other contemporary or recent as being major symphonists, with each having produced at least one work deserving the accolade "great".
#41
I would approach this in a slightly different way, given the underlying concern of the original question: from the 200 years prior to 1960, how many symphonies deserve to rank among the greatest?  That is, how many symphonies utilize the full resources available to the composer in the fullest manner?  How many are both structurally complex and powerfully emotional, operating consistently at the highest level?

Not so many as we might suppose, I would guess.  A certain number by Haydn, but no more than 20 or 30.  The last three by Mozart, and perhaps a couple of others.  Beethoven 3, 5, 6, 7, and 9 (and some might argue against 6!).  Schubert 8 and 9.  And then....?  Remember, we're talking 'greatest', not 'very good' or 'most popular'.

So (he says, rushing in where angels fear to tread)-- Nothing before Brahms and Bruckner, or at most Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, Mendelssohn 4, and Schumann 4.  Brahms 1 (though this would not be universally accepted, judging from various reactions over the years), and certainly 4 (2 & 3?  |Do they really hold up against the aforementioned pieces by Beethoven?).  Bruckner 4, 5 and 7, possibly, and certainly 8 & 9.  Saint-Saens 3?  Tchaikovsky 4, maybe 6.  Dvorak 7 probably, and I'd make a case for 8, as others would for 9.  Mahler 6, possibly 9.  Nielsen 4 &5.  Sibelius 4 & 5?  Shostakovitch 5, maybe 8, and 10.  Prokofiev 5?  A couple by Miaskovsky?  A couple by Hartmann?

And then, since I'm no doubt forgetting a few (Toch?  Martinu? Tubin?), we'll say that another dozen can be added.  This gives us, at most (assuming truly great symphonies don't come pouring out of the woodwork), some ninety or so truly great symphonies in two hundred years (simply accepting every symphony mentioned above as 'great').  Take off Haydn and Mozart, who wrote in a vastly different era and other vastly different circumstances than their successors, and the number drops by almost half.  So we have an average of somewhere between fifteen and forty-five great symphonies for each fifty years.  Just on the numbers I'd suggest that the last fifty years are holding up pretty well, even if you double the above numbers.

My nominations (sticking, almost, to the original three symphony limit)? 
Shostakovitch 13 absolutely, and 14 and 15 strongly.
Pettersson 7, and maybe 8.
Aho 7

There are, though, many other very fine symphonies of recent origin.  As I said, the last fifty years seem to be at least as productive as any other fifty year period after Beethoven.
#42
Ferdinand Ries's Sextet, Op. 142, is for Piano, Harp, Bassoon, Clarinet, French Horn, and Double Bass.  It has been recorded on Cpo.

Anton Rubinstein's Quintet for Piano and Winds, Op. 55, substitutes a flute for the much more usual oboe.  It has been recorded several times, though not always complete.  The best currently available recording is the Consortium Classicum on Orfeo, coupled with the only (but, fortunately, excellent) recording of the Op. 9 Octet.

Going a bit astray chronologically, but well within the aural bounds of most listeners here, Bohuslav Martinu wrote a Quartet for Clarinet, Horn, Cello and Snare Drum (!) which I've always liked.  There are several recordings.
#43
Even apart from standard piano trios, there are many trios for violin, piano, and this, that, or the other intrument (violoncello or clarinet, e.g.).  Ditto violoncello and piano.  But the viola doesn't really start to show up until piano quartets, etc.  So I'm wondering what good original pieces (not arrangements, however well done) for viola, piano, and [any third instrument] people here would recommend.  Suggestions?
#44
Thanks for all the interesting mentions (though I already knew some of them, there were many I'd never heard of).

Quote from: kdjupdal on Tuesday 10 May 2011, 18:25
I listened to Albrechtsberger, and that sounded really nice with the Jew´s harp.
Who wrote a Theremin Concerto?
Anis Fuleihan.  The recording, with Stokowski conducting the NY Philharmonic, is currently available only on a weird compilation disk: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=4087&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=88124 .  There is also a more modern concerto, entitled 'Seahorse,', by Elizabeth Brown, which was premiered in 2008.  I'm sure there are others, though none comes to mind immediately.
#45
I was listening to one of Johann Georg Albrechtsberger's concerti for Jew's Harp, Mandora, and Orchestra (no, really-- http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=127441&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=5490 ; I believe he wrote seven, of which two have been recorded), and started to wonder what other, shall we say, unusual instruments have had genuine concerti written for them.  There are several -- well, at least a few-- harmonica concerti, accordion concerti, and even theremin concerti.  But how about really atypical solo instruments?  I do mean serious concerti, not gag pieces or new-agey slush such as pan pipe 'concerti'.  Any suggestions?