Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Martin Anderson on Saturday 10 April 2010, 11:24

Title: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Martin Anderson on Saturday 10 April 2010, 11:24
Don't imagine that this is a choice I have to make for Toccata Classics (I wish it were!), but if you had the chance of making an orchestral CD -- just one -- of unrecorded music by a single composer, what would you choose? This may seem a bit like the 'Fantasy Festival' thread that's running at the moment, but it occurred to me the other day that if I found myself in the position of having to respond to an orchestral manager or a sponsor who asked me: "OK, what do you want to record?", there are so many things I would like to do that it would be difficult to narrow them down to a single project. So what would you lot opt for?
Cheers
Martin

Martin Anderson
Toccata Classics
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Kriton on Saturday 10 April 2010, 11:37
Joseph Marx: Herbstsymphonie!!!

Read about it, if you want:

http://www.joseph-marx.org/en/herbstsymphonie.html#herbstsymphonie
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Jonathan on Saturday 10 April 2010, 11:58
Liszt's Totentanz original version (dating from around 1849, see an earlier thread for details) plus all of the remainder of his orchestral music that hasn't been recorded yet.

And all the unrecorded 2 piano / 4 hand music that's not been recorded.

Also the early Liszt Fantasy (can't remember the title) which was sold at Sotherby's in 1986 and the owner has jealously refused to let anyone see the manuscript (shades of Sterndale-Bennett's 6th piano concerto).
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Martin Anderson on Saturday 10 April 2010, 13:12
Blimey: there's another challenge. Would anyone care to list the Liszt (sorry) four-hand and two-piano stuff that has yet to be recorded?
Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Hofrat on Saturday 10 April 2010, 13:49
I imagine that all of this forum's contributers have "favorite sons" or pet projects.  I will put Joachim Eggert's cantatas high on my list. 
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Peter1953 on Saturday 10 April 2010, 14:53
Definitely Frederic Cliffe's Violin Concerto in D minor...
Oh...and there is Gernsheim's Piano Concerto in C minor...
I cannot make a choice anymore...
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: John Hudock on Saturday 10 April 2010, 14:59
Like most members here, the difficulty lies in just picking one or two 'tops', so I will just mention the first things that popped into my head which were the Atterberg Requiem and the Foulds Cello Concerto.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Saturday 10 April 2010, 16:14
Didn't I see mention somewhere a while back that cpo was planning to come out with the Marx Herbstsymphonie?  There is a download available of the 2005 performance.  Also, I don't know if this quite qualifies as unrecorded, but all that Rufinatscha music that's only available on the house label of the Tiroler Landesmuseum is so inaccessible to the everyday unsung CD buyer who hasn't yet found either this forum or the Landesmuseum that it might as well have never been recorded.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Saturday 10 April 2010, 20:42
Oh gawd, Martin, what an invitation! And, paradoxically, you've made it harder by not indicating any parameters whatsoever. (It would be far easier had you specified, e.g. 19th or 20th century, British, Russian or whatever.)

But here goes. First I'd endorse with unbridled enthusiasm all the suggestions so far (and especially Marx, Cliffe, Gernsheim and Foulds) and probably all future suggestions. But that's no real answer.

Second I now stick out my neck, and I'm going to nominate someone on the grounds that no-one else will think of him, and yet who, on the basis of the sole work of his that has been recorded, would be likely to be of considerable artistic and commercial success to your orchestral manager. A number of years ago Chandos recorded his 1968 Violin Concerto. Those who have heard it were bowled over. It is a full length, 'big', and utterly beautiful work. To my ears it stands alongside other justly famed and frequently performed 20th century masterpieces.

So who is he? Answer: John Veale (1922-2006). Apart from that stunning Violin Concerto, nothing else has been recorded - let alone performed. There are 3 symphonies (1945-7 and revised in 1951; 1964; and 2003). There are also what seem two very significant choral works: the 1956 Kubla Khan (baritone, chorus & orch) and the 1966 The Song of Radha (soprano & orch). True, I haven't heard any of them (but then so it seems has hardly anyone else) and thus can't judge their quality. However (and apologies for I repeat myself) if any of these works were of the same calibre as that stunning Violin Concerto your orchestral manager (and his accountant) might well be deeply grateful to you for the suggestion.

Humph, I suppose each friend on this Forum qualifies for only one nomination? Damn!!

Peter
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: TerraEpon on Saturday 10 April 2010, 20:51
Quote from: Jonathan on Saturday 10 April 2010, 11:58
Also the early Liszt Fantasy (can't remember the title) which was sold at Sotherby's in 1986 and the owner has jealously refused to let anyone see the manuscript (shades of Sterndale-Bennett's 6th piano concerto).

There's actually like three or four pieces that the list included with Hyperion's vol. 57 (the Hungarian Rhapsodies) says are in "private collections" and thus unobtainable (well, one might be mentioned in one of the New Discoveries CDs...). It really bothers me that works of famous composers are held hostage like that....there's a piece for cello and orchestra by Debussy that's like that too.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Syrelius on Saturday 10 April 2010, 21:16
I hope for a recording of orchestral music by Sigurd von Koch, especially the symphonic poem In the Lands of Pan.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 11 April 2010, 00:05
Definitely Julius Otto Grimm: his great Symphony in D minor. I have the score...
[Coupling: one of the three Suites...]
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: oldman on Sunday 11 April 2010, 01:21
I would love to hear any of Josef Holbrooke's large choral/orchestral works.  His  Op. 51 Second Symphony "Apollo and the Seaman" or his Op. 48 Choral Symphony particularly come to mind.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: mbhaub on Sunday 11 April 2010, 04:25
Franz Schmidt's opera Fredegundis. Ok, there is an off-the-air bootleg available, but I want a modern, well-done version. A DVD would be even nicer.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: TerraEpon on Sunday 11 April 2010, 06:43
It's hard to pick just one -- but one VERY curious omission in recordings is Dvorak's Josef Kajetan Tyl incidental music, B 125. The overture is quite well known (aka My Home Overture), but the rest of it seems to have never been recorded.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Sunday 11 April 2010, 09:26
I would heartily endorse the request for first-class recordings of Holbrooke's Dramatic Choral Symphony and 'Apollo and the Seaman'. Personally, I would be torn between two projects, the modesty of which would probably allow both to be realised:

1. a complete recording of Holbrooke's operatic trilogy 'The Cauldron of Annwn': 'The Children of Don', 'Dylan' and Bronwen' (1908-1920). This massive achievement has been much ridiculed and derided as 'second-hand Wagner'. Undoubtedly Holbrooke and Ellis were inspired by the monumental mythology of 'The Ring' but the actual end-product is very individual: 'Bronwen' (in excerpts broadcast by the BBC in 1995) sounds quite unlike anything else in British (or any other) music;

2. a complete recording of Rutland Boughton's Arthurian cycle of music-dramas: 'The Birth of Arthur' (1908/9), 'The Round Table' (1915/16), 'The Lily Maid' (1933/4), 'Galahad' (1943/4) and 'Avalon' (1944/5). Nothing much is known about these (especially the later works) but Michael Hurd's descriptions certainly make me very eager to hear them.

Of course top-flight British soloists, chorus, orchestra and conductor would be de rigueur! I can already see the Chandos advertisements in Gramophone.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Kriton on Sunday 11 April 2010, 15:22
Quote from: TerraEpon on Saturday 10 April 2010, 20:51
It really bothers me that works of famous composers are held hostage like that....there's a piece for cello and orchestra by Debussy that's like that too.

I completely agree, it's beyond my understanding that someone would withhold compositions (by famous composers!) from the public. But, tell me about the Debussy piece? I've never heard of the work, is it from his early period, like the fantasy for piano & orchestra? I've tried to google it, without success...
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 11 April 2010, 16:52
Sorabji's works with orchestra (with or without chorus, from his first piano concerto through his late Missa alta sinfonica etc.)  Like many others I had quite a few works and composers to choose from, but this tops my list. (If "unrecorded" means, not existing in even so much as a private recording, then this does admittedly disqualify quite a few entries submitted to date in this thread and also one or two of the Sorabji works, since one of his piano concertos has been broadcast; but I take it to mean commercially recorded? I am aware that many of the Sorabji orchestral works are not yet available in performing editions, but can wait.)
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Jonathan on Sunday 11 April 2010, 17:55
Quote from: Martin Anderson on Saturday 10 April 2010, 13:12
Blimey: there's another challenge. Would anyone care to list the Liszt (sorry) four-hand and two-piano stuff that has yet to be recorded?
Cheers
Martin

Martin, check your inbox!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: TerraEpon on Sunday 11 April 2010, 20:53
Quote from: Kriton on Sunday 11 April 2010, 15:22me about the Debussy piece? I've never heard of the work, is it from his early period, like the fantasy for piano & orchestra? I've tried to google it, without success...

Basically, there's a piece for cello and piano called simply Intermezzo. It's been, as far as I know recorded once, by Daniel Muller-Schott (and there's a live version floating around too). There's a piece that is PROBABLY the orchestration of this in a private holding. IIRC it's a pretty early piece, yes (my book lists 1882)

(incidently, there's also a piece called Intermezzo, L 40/(L 27 old catalog) that was thought to be an arrangement of this...but isn't, which is why the cello piece has no number).
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 12 April 2010, 21:01
To readers of this forum it will come as no surprise that I would strongly endorse the wishes for recordings of Holbrooke's major orchestral/choral works: The Bells, Queen Mab, Apollo and the Seaman, the Dramatic Choral Symphony Op. 48.  Of course The Cauldon of Annwn trilogy would be marvellous - it contains some of his finest and most original music. There are, however, some less than inspired portions and a few embarrassingly bad bits in the librettos (which, on the whole are actually, not at all bad). "Bronwen" is the most consistently good - and could probably stand revival. "The Children of Don" is grim and powerful, but tends tp sprawl somewhat. "Dylan" is more a series of scenes than a dramatic whole; it is also obscure from an audience's point of view. However, it contains some truly glorious music; it also contains moments of bathos as when the hero, Dylan, signals his arrival by singing offstage: "I sing; I have sung; I can sing better." (!!!)
But Holbrooke, definitely. And John Foulds' "Vision of Dante".  And Bantock's "Christ in the Wilderness".
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Monday 12 April 2010, 21:36
My strongest recommendations for new recordings of Bantock would be: the two 'companion' works for chorus and orchestra 'The Time-Spirit' (1904) and 'Sea Wanderers' (1907), both written to colourful texts by Bantock's wife Helen (the latter work features a fog-horn, which unfortunately is not prominent enough on the off-air BBC recording I have); 'The Pilgrim's Progress' (1928) which I have always thought a much more attractively varied work than the somewhat monotonous 'Song of Songs'; and the celtic-inspired opera 'The Seal Woman' (1924). In spite of Hyperion and Chandos' marvellous advocacy, there is a wealth of glorious music by Bantock still unheard.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: chill319 on Tuesday 13 April 2010, 03:19
Assuming that you mean never commercially recorded, for me Wilhelm Berger's Symphony 2 immediately springs to mind.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: TerraEpon on Tuesday 13 April 2010, 06:47
Quote from: Albion on Monday 12 April 2010, 21:36In spite of Hyperion and Chandos' marvellous advocacy, there is a wealth of glorious music by Bantock still unheard.

Any purely orchestral works left, or did Hyperion take care of them all?
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 13 April 2010, 16:58
Yes, I know of no unknown 19th century (just!) symphony to match Berger 2. It's a cracker...
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 08:30
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 11 April 2010, 00:05
Definitely Julius Otto Grimm: his great Symphony in D minor. I have the score...
[Coupling: one of the three Suites...]

Maybe the Grimm combined with Hugo Ulrich's Symphonie triomphale in C,  op. 9 from 1853? Definitely a thrilling listen!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 13:33
Toccata will usually only release 1-composer CDs...
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 15:05
Havergal Brians opera 'The Tigers'. In my opinion a genuine eccentric masterpiece,and not only one of the greatest English opera's,but one of the very few genuinely funny ones ever written. A 'dream' opera up there with Martinu's similairly underated,but less neglected 'Julietta'. It puts Albert Herring in the shade. (Although I love the old singers that Britten used on his own recording) Mind you,I'm not sure that you could better the old BBC Studio recording,which was absolutely marvellous! If only they would repeat it or someone could find a way of releasing it. I am an optimist though,and I am sure 'The Tigers' will eventually appear on cd,or even on stage!!!!!!
  I agree with the Holbrooke nominations,whole heartedly,and 'Fredegundis',which really does need a recording. More Bantock.yes,as the cd companies seem to have gone quiet on this front. Maybe,Vernon Handley has put them off! Oh,and Gustav Holst's 'The Perfect Fool'. The complete opera,as opposed to just the ballet. A recording,in my opinion, long overdue.
  But you did say one cd,so I would probably go for Holbrooke or Havergal Brians wonderful Symphony No 5 'Wine of Summer',with an appropriate coupling' I wish to goodness someone would release that one. And Patric Standford's Symphony No5, would be very nice too.Particularly, the BBC studio recording. Gaze Cooper sound as if he could be interesting.too!

Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 15:08
Correction! Gaze Cooper 'sounds' as if he could be interesting. Over to our experts here for that one!!!!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 20:34
As alternatives to the Sorabji works in my first post I feel half-obliged (yeah, right) to mention something more feasible-
(1) the symphonies of Dimitrie Cuclin (though no. 12, which if ever performed may clock in around 6 hours, has that problem all over again. The two of his symphonies that have been recorded, back on LP, were of more normal length. I've heard one of those two, and another on private tape, and am very impressed.)
(2) The symphonies of Jan Zimmer (1926-, Slovak composer.) Hints of Prokofiev and Shostakovich, very original orchestration.  12 symphonies, no.1 was recorded on LP in 1963 by Ladislav Slovak and the Slovak Phil. with sym. 2 by Jaroch, most but not all of the other 11 again only as radio tapes apparently and some of them not even that.  Really good and I think worth having see CD. No Wikipedia entry in any language I can find, by the way, though there is an IMDB one.
(3) Koechlin's 2nd symphony (mostly orchestrations of piano pieces and other works, as described in a recent book on the composer that can be skimmed at Google Books. The overall effect of this symphony - a sort of Bach-ish fugue, a much more modern scherzo, an again solemn slow movement preceding the finale- is unsettling, interesting but- and- I think very well of it...)
Agreed re: Brian 5. And it would be good to have 22-24 back. 22 existed on LP and 23 & 24 on pirate LPs, so maybe they are out of this thread (I'm not sure if 5 was ever in the Aries LP series?)
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 20:38
Yes, I strongly agree that the BBC recording of Brian's 'The Tigers' should have been released, but it is apparently mired in contractual issues. When, in the 1990s, the 'BBC Radio Classics' label (in association with Carlton) began to make available such off-air treasures as Boughton's 2nd and 3rd Symphonies conducted Downes and Bliss' ballet 'The Lady of Shalott' conducted by the composer, I really hoped that this would be the dawning of a new age when previously 'locked' recordings would see commercial release. It clearly can be done - witness Albany's discs of Bantock's choral symphonies 'Atalanta in Calydon' and 'Vanity of Vanities' and George Lloyd's opera 'Iernin'. Also Ethel Smyth's 'The Wreckers' issued by Conifer in 1994 based largely on the BBC Prom performance from that year. What earthly use are similar BBC recordings (often unique modern performances of esoteric or obscure repertoire) to anybody, especially the performers involved, if nobody can access them easily, let alone purchase copies of them.

An interesting analogy is Warner Brothers' recently-launched 'Archive' service which allows the controlled release of obscure film material from their vaults (including silent features from the 1920s - another passion of mine). These are not 'pressed' DVDs, but burned and therefore much cheaper to produce, allowing for the vagaries of a relatively 'niche' market. By all accounts, this has been a tremendous success for Warners. Now if the BBC could open it's audio-vaults in similar fashion I would be one of their most loyal customers!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 22:48
I thoroughly agree, Albion. But the keeping of valuable stuff in the vaults is a practice not unique to the BBC. For example, way back in 2002 English National Opera commenced, with some fanfare, a series of ENO recordings. I let out a whoop of delight. Alas, the project never got further than the first release - of Turnage's 'The Silver Tassie'. I can't believe that ENO don't make recordings of their productions, especially those commissioned by them. It could only benefit the composers and musicians involved, and the musical community as well, if these works were permanently accessible. I think it a scandal that - doubtless for legal reasons - they remain locked away in the vaults.

But you're perfectly right: the BBC is the main culprit. (A much better game than Martin's 'What would you like to see recorded?' would be: 'If you could raid the vaults of the BBC which recording would you grab?') Doubtless we shall be castigated by lawyers for failing to understand some formidable legal point, but my dismay and irritation won't reduce because of that. And doubtless we shall Alan breathing down our necks for wandering right off the thread! But the point is made.

Peter
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 23:16
It certainly makes you feel like doing a 'smash and grab',or maybe a more sophisticated operation,along the lines of 'Rififi',or 'The Italian Job'! Keeping such treasures locked away from the public,(and 'The Tigers' is just one of many),seems like a major crime in itself,to the likes of music lovers like me. Also,the BBC,unlike Sky or ITV,is by it's very nature  and funding,supposed to be accountable to the British people,and they should be working out ways of allowing people access such archives,not keeping them under lock and key.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 23:26
Sorry about the typing again,the 'coughing' doesn't help! Maybe the Warner Brothers initiative is a solution,but  I think that there are allot of people who aren't  'Brianite's',who would really enjoy discovering a work like 'The Tigers',and a commercially produced cd set could do allot to spread the word about a work as colourful,tuneful,inventive and fun as that opera undoubtedly is.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: chill319 on Wednesday 14 April 2010, 23:39
An excellent suggestion, Albion. It really comes down in the short term to a handful of specific individuals at the majors who could provide well structured business models to their VPs. Hopefully, in the medium term Marshall McLuhan's "medium is the message" will translate into "internet = new business model" -- and NOT just via murky MP3s.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Thursday 15 April 2010, 00:41
That's McCluhan.  Marshall McCluhan.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 15 April 2010, 02:19
Erm, are we talking about Marshall McLuhan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan)? Surname spelled slightly differently.
Eric straying offtopic, sorry
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Thursday 15 April 2010, 02:36
Yeah.  Same guy. 
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: chill319 on Thursday 15 April 2010, 04:10
McLuhan it is. Thanks for catching that. Spelling corrected.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Thursday 15 April 2010, 12:18
Talk about early birds!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Revilod on Thursday 15 April 2010, 17:12
Most of Saint-Saens' operas are unrecorded. "Henri VIII" is a wonderfully inspired work yet is hardly known. The others must be worth investigating. Also his oratorio "La Terre Promise".
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Thursday 15 April 2010, 17:20
Yes, I've got a very enjoyable DVD of 'Henry VIII' (Kultur D4015) and would love to hear or see more Saint-Saens. Likewise, Massenet's lesser-known operas haven't really been given much exposure since the heyday of Bonynge and Sutherland!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: TerraEpon on Friday 16 April 2010, 06:58
Quote from: Revilod on Thursday 15 April 2010, 17:12
Most of Saint-Saens' operas are unrecorded. "Henri VIII" is a wonderfully inspired work yet is hardly known. The others must be worth investigating. Also his oratorio "La Terre Promise".

There's an OOP Henry VIII from the 80s, I think.
Still, I'd love to hear it, as well as Le Timbre d'Argent, Etuenne Marcel, Proserpine, Ascanio, Phryne, Fredegonde, Les Barbares, L'Ancetre, and Dejanire.

Even more so, though, is the incidental music.


Speaking of which, Khachaturian has a lot of unrecorded incidental music -- even the popular Masquerade has never been recorded beyond the suite, but I'd especially love to hear his take on Macbeth (BOTH of them!). Not to mention his film music.
And of course, easily on my top 5 list relating to this thread, the complete original version of Gayaneh (not to mention its original original form, Happiness).

Actually, incidental music in general seems to be under represented outside from the three or so usual suspects...even Mendelssohn's others are rarely recorded.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: John H White on Friday 16 April 2010, 10:50
I'd go for all the unrecorded symphonies of Franz Lachner, particularly Nos 2 & 6, the latter of which was reckoned by Schumann to be twice as good as No 5. Apart from these I'd like to hear the 3 surviving piano concertos of Cypriani Potter and the 6th piano concerto of his pupil, William Sterndale Bennett,which has been withheld from performance for completely non musical reasons by the present owner of the manuscript score.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Jonathan on Friday 16 April 2010, 12:59
Hi again all,
I should also have said all of the unrecorded piano music by Alkan.  There is quite a lot which has never been recorded and (IMHO) deserves to be!  ;D
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 16 April 2010, 13:43
Quote from: Jonathan on Friday 16 April 2010, 12:59
Hi again all,
I should also have said all of the unrecorded piano music by Alkan.  There is quite a lot which has never been recorded and (IMHO) deserves to be!  ;D

I agree- actually, I think very much of it has been recorded but on a hardly accessible label, some years ago, according to something Adrian Corleonis said in Fanfare???... i'm not sure... well, that would make it like the Rufinatscha symphonies, in a way. :(
also, the thread began with the stipulation that the music be at least partially orchestral - it would be great to have another such thread for chamber and piano music though.  I have heard, I believe and seem to recall vaguely (but not where from????), that Hamelin is uninterested in taking on such a project - unfortunately, being of the opinion that some of it is not worth the time learning to perform.  Which is a performer's judgment to make in the end and not ours, I'm not disputing.  I mention Hamelin because I believe he'd be perfect for the project, myself.
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 16 April 2010, 13:46
Quote from: John H White on Friday 16 April 2010, 10:50
I'd go for all the unrecorded symphonies of Franz Lachner, particularly Nos 2 & 6, the latter of which was reckoned by Schumann to be twice as good as No 5. Apart from these I'd like to hear the 3 surviving piano concertos of Cypriani Potter and the 6th piano concerto of his pupil, William Sterndale Bennett,which has been withheld from performance for completely non musical reasons by the present owner of the manuscript score.

Has Lachner 4 in E (ca 1834) even been published yet or is it still wholly in manuscript, anyone know?
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 16 April 2010, 15:56
Going back to Gaze Cooper (Walter Thomas Gaze Cooper,or just,GC 1895-1981). I would definately buy a cd of his music if one came out. Particularly,if it included one of his eight symphonies. The one I would most like to hear,being his Symphony No 4 'The West Wind',based on the John Masefield poem (a poet I like). It includes,a solo part for a soprano and violin.and,intriguingly,a humming course (you know...mmmmmmmmm!),which,apparently, runs through the entire piece. Love to hear it,or something else. He wrote a heck of allot in all different genres. So,over to you Dutton,Toccatta,Chandos,EMI (in my dreams),et al!
   Oh,and by the way,what about the still unrecorded symphonies of,quite possibly Wales's greatest symphonist,and friend of Dylan Thomas;Daniel Jones. Still best remembered for his incidental music for the famous Radio dramatisation of 'Under Milk Wood'. I remember,the late lamented,and in my opinion underated,Bryden Thomson was an enthusiast. A recording of No 5 would be particularly welcome,
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 16 April 2010, 16:13
Also,the remaining symphonies of Roy Harris. David Diamond and some symphonies by Henry Cowell. Although,if I had to go for just one of them, David Diamond.
Still on the subject of Welsh composers,a cd of the glamorous and rather mysterious Morfydd Owen (including her orchestral music,or,at least, what there is of it) & a chance to hear Joseph Parry's symphony (if it still exists of course).
I also wish someone would release the BBC performance of Brian's 'Das Siegeslied',which is far superior to the shoddy but brave Marco Polo/Naxos effort,and the performance of his Violin Concerto by Ralph Holmes. Again,way superior to the Naxos interpretation, (although,each to his own,as they say).
Oh,and a cd of music by August Von Bungert (love that name). A very intriguing sounding figure,and another of orchestral music by Jaromir Weinberger ( of Schwanda fame). I have heard some other pieces by him,and he was a superb orchestrator. Such a pity,that his other work was so unjustly over shadowed by this one success, But such is life......
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Jonathan on Friday 16 April 2010, 19:21
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 16 April 2010, 13:43
Quote from: Jonathan on Friday 16 April 2010, 12:59
Hi again all,
I should also have said all of the unrecorded piano music by Alkan.  There is quite a lot which has never been recorded and (IMHO) deserves to be!  ;D

I agree- actually, I think very much of it has been recorded but on a hardly accessible label, some years ago, according to something Adrian Corleonis said in Fanfare???... i'm not sure... well, that would make it like the Rufinatscha symphonies, in a way. :(
also, the thread began with the stipulation that the music be at least partially orchestral - it would be great to have another such thread for chamber and piano music though.  I have heard, I believe and seem to recall vaguely (but not where from????), that Hamelin is uninterested in taking on such a project - unfortunately, being of the opinion that some of it is not worth the time learning to perform.  Which is a performer's judgment to make in the end and not ours, I'm not disputing.  I mention Hamelin because I believe he'd be perfect for the project, myself.
Eric

Hi Eric,
Yes, I meant to say at the top of my post slightly off topic but i was typing it in a break at work so was in a hurry!  I agree about Hamelin being the right man for the job though and I was aware of his unwillingness to participate!  Another thread might be a good idea...

Ok, back on topic now, Sgambati's two Symphonies coupled on one disc would be good.  I'd also like all the remaining works by Scharwenka and, of course Raff!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Friday 16 April 2010, 23:43
If I'm not mistaken, I think that Raff is almost completely done up where orchestral music is concerned.  I think that only the operas and what incidental music remains unrecorded is all that's left of the orchestral music still unrecorded, and I'm sure Sterling, cpo or Tudor have it somewhere in the pipeline.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Marcus on Sunday 18 April 2010, 10:53
Hello Martin Anderson,
This question is impossible to answer with any conviction, as there are so many works begging for a recording, and tomorrow, I will think of something else, but today's selection is Gabriel Faure's Symphony in D minor op40 (1884), if the manuscript has survived. It was first performed in Paris on 15/3/1885, with Edouard Colonne conducting. It remained unpublished. Although it was written in 1884,,( Faure was 39 when it was composed,and he did not consider promoting  it in later years), I would still like to hear it, so as to assess Faure's musical language at the time, and who knows,Faure's assessment may have too harsh. However, as my chances of hearing that work are akin to my winning the lottery, I will nominate the Symphony in C minor by Waldemar Bargiel (1828-97), step-brother of Clara Schumann.
I can also reveal my thoughts for tomorrow : the Symphony in D minor by Estonian Evald Aav (1900-39), purely on the strength of the only work of his which I have heard, the wonderful Symphonic Poem - Life. It was released a few years ago on Eesti-Raadio Cd #ERCD-017, and is a two movement work lasting approx. 35 minutes, in an advanced late romantic idiom.
Marcus.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 18 April 2010, 16:15
Quote from: Marcus on Sunday 18 April 2010, 10:53
Hello Martin Anderson,
This question is impossible to answer with any conviction, as there are so many works begging for a recording, and tomorrow, I will think of something else, but today's selection is Gabriel Faure's Symphony in D minor op40 (1884), if the manuscript has survived. It was first performed in Paris on 15/3/1885, with Edouard Colonne conducting. It remained unpublished. Although it was written in 1884,,( Faure was 39 when it was composed,and he did not consider promoting  it in later years), I would still like to hear it, so as to assess Faure's musical language at the time, and who knows,Faure's assessment may have too harsh. However, as my chances of hearing that work are akin to my winning the lottery, I will nominate the Symphony in C minor by Waldemar Bargiel (1828-97), step-brother of Clara Schumann.


Bargiel's symphony (or the only one I know of?) is in C major actually; I've heard it, and it is well worth a commercial recording, in my opinion (coupled possibly with his Intermezzo, which is an orchestration- I don't know by whose hands- of the slow movement of his - also-unrecorded, unless you count MIDIs... - piano sonata in the same key.)  Well-called I think :)

I thought Faure's symphony had been recorded though...  I know a reconstruction of the violin concerto has, so I hope I'm not just confusing the two.  All I think I know about the symphony aside from what you relate is that material from it finds its way into, I believe, his E minor violin sonata, just as material from the violin concerto fragment becomes the opening of the E minor string quartet?
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Sunday 18 April 2010, 22:49
Funny, but I always thought that the Faure Symphony was withdrawn by the composer and lost (except for the movements he cannibalized from it for other works (a la Raff's E Minor Symphony).  And I think it unfair that none of Rufinatscha's work could be considered by Martin simply because some house label has beaten him to it.  Rufi, IMHO has been the major find for me of this present company and could quite easily be billed to the general public as "the greatest composer you've never heard of."  Assuming they've heard of Raff, of course. :) 
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Marcus on Monday 19 April 2010, 05:08
Hello eschiss1,
Yes you are correct. Again I was relying on memory,  which can be a little faulty sometimes with my thought processes sometimes surging ahead of a check of the facts. ("old-timers' disease !).I remember reading in a Schumann biography a reference to this work, and it is definately in the major key, and Bargiel only wrote one.(that I know of)
I have a list of symphonies from Brahm's circle, and late 1800's on my wish list, and one by one they are being recorded, (Dietrich, Herzogenberg, Jadassohn, Brull), with Bargiel & Grimm now at the top of the list, and added  to that symphonies of Ferdinand Hiller (3)(1811-85) & Konrad Gradener(2) (1812-83), two often mentioned in Brahms biographies.  I had mistakenly written C minor for the Bargiel work on my list some years ago. Must be time for a nap...
Cheers !
Marcus.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 19 April 2010, 05:14
Incipits from the Bargiel symphony's movements can be seen in a review of the publication of a piano reduction of the work that appeared in the Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung, and which is available online at books.google.com - there's a link to this in the Wikipedia-en article for Bargiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woldemar_Bargiel), in the list of works next to the symphony.  (Then click read publication, then search for Bargiel, etc.)
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: CrazyCello on Monday 19 April 2010, 09:12
I'm not sure if it falls under the remit of purely "Orchestral" music but one work I'm eagerly awaiting a recording of (preferably on historical instruments) is the hour long setting of Confetibor tibi Domine (1799) by Samuel Wesley (1766-1837). I have a score of it, parts look tantalisingly inventive, to the point it could probably join the ranks of end-of-the-century large scale choral works along with the likes of Haydn's Creation. The fact that it only received about five performances in Wesley's lifetime and I've found reference to only one modern performance since the score and parts were published is probably a large factor in its unpopularity and relative obscurity.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Monday 19 April 2010, 12:17
Quote from: CrazyCello on Monday 19 April 2010, 09:12
I'm not sure if it falls under the remit of purely "Orchestral" music but one work I'm eagerly awaiting a recording of (preferably on historical instruments) is the hour long setting of Confetibor tibi Domine (1799) by Samuel Wesley (1766-1837). I have a score of it, parts look tantalisingly inventive, to the point it could probably join the ranks of end-of-the-century large scale choral works along with the likes of Haydn's Creation. The fact that it only received about five performances in Wesley's lifetime and I've found reference to only one modern performance since the score and parts were published is probably a large factor in its unpopularity and relative obscurity.
Yes, it's a wonderfully assured and varied work lasting 50 minutes. There was an excellent studio recording broadcast on Radio 3 on 28th July 1989 with Alison Hargan (soprano), Anne Collins (alto), Justin Lavender (tenor), Michael George (bass), the BBC Singers and the Orchestra of St John's, Smith Square conducted by John Lubbock.

There was another performance on 28th September 1995 at St Giles Church, Cripplegate, with Susannah Waters (soprano), Margaret Cable (mezzo), Adrian Thompson (tenor), Gwion Thomas (baritone), the Taverner Choir and the London Mozart Players conducted by Andrew Parrott. Incidentally, the same concert (which was broadcast live) included Cipriani Potter's 1832 G minor Symphony.

'Confitebor tibi, Domine' certainly deserves a modern commercial recording.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: namoji on Thursday 22 April 2010, 03:31
hello all, if the optional piano music for consideration in this difficult project, because I would love the piano sonatas of Theodor Kullak, and the only sonata in Bb written by Henri herz .. would be to my taste very good options

Natanael... :D
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 22 April 2010, 10:02
If I could just plug Eduard Napravník's four symphonies here... Wonderful works from what I've seen and heard (although the latter only in piano four-hand, I fear).
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: thalbergmad on Thursday 22 April 2010, 17:24
Quote from: namoji on Thursday 22 April 2010, 03:31
hello all, if the optional piano music for consideration in this difficult project, because I would love the piano sonatas of Theodor Kullak, and the only sonata in Bb written by Henri herz .. would be to my taste very good options

Natanael... :D

I say, that sounds excellent.

Would fit in with nicely my Leopold De Meyer project, especially the Herz.

Thal
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: edurban on Friday 23 April 2010, 02:55
I've been very remiss in not putting in my oar here.  Horace Wadham Nicholl (b. Tipton, England, 17 March 1848, died New York, 10 March 1922) left a sizable amount of truly interesting, challenging music in all forms (see the biographical article in American Grove.)
He moved to the USA in 1870, although during 1900-04 he was in England and Leipzig.

There is enough orchestral music for a few discs.  For Vol. 1, I would program the Piano Concerto in d minor (here I quote Liszt pupil William Sherwood: "Mr. Nicholl's Concerto for piano which I have studied and played [in 1888] is in all repects the equal of any modern concerto I have yet heard since Chopin and Schumann.  It is a work of the highest rank among modern compositions of its class.  My assertion that it is worthy of Bach or Brahms is founded upon a thorough study of its contents, which, both for beauty and dignity of its themes, and their masterly development, as well as the artistic structure of the composition, fully justifies such a statement...")

To fill up the disc I would include Nicholl's symphonic poem Tartarus of 1877-78.

David
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Friday 23 April 2010, 06:23
The Nicholl concerto sounds like a good project for Hyperion, although whether it should go on an American or British volume is the question.  I'd pair it with another piano concerto of similar provenance and period.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 23 April 2010, 09:31
Well, why don't you guys drop Mike Spring a line and suggest it? The Hyperion website will give you contact details.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: edurban on Friday 23 April 2010, 14:51
Preparing the concerto would be a project.  The manuscript full score is at NYPL, as is the whole Nicholl collection, there is also a 2 piano arrangement, but I don't remember any parts.  The piece, like most of Nicholl's orchestral works, excepting the 'Symphonic Sketch' Hamlet, was never published.  In my ambitious student days, I copied the string quartet, the piano trio (can't find that copy, though) and a few other pieces.  Mary Louise Boehm played one of the piano pieces a few times, my first wife played the cello sonata at Carnegie Recital Hall, the March from Nicholl's setting of The Golden Legend was the exit music at my first wedding.  The Nicholl revival still awaits...

David
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: chill319 on Saturday 24 April 2010, 00:32
Based on your description, David, I'm very tempted to add Nicholl (along with Homann and Bird) to my shortest short list of unsung 19th-century American composers.  Should anything become available, my filthy lucre will be, too.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: namoji on Monday 26 April 2010, 04:16
I would love this project works LEOPOLDO D MEYER ... would be very interesting but also a disc with piano trios Littolff henry
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 26 April 2010, 04:24
Quote from: namoji on Monday 26 April 2010, 04:16
I would love this project works LEOPOLDO D MEYER ... would be very interesting but also a disc with piano trios Littolff henry

The one of the Litolff trios that's been recorded that I know of sounds pretty good, one looks forward to the others.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 04:35
Quote from: naimdj62 on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 04:27
WE have seen Of all the unrecorded music in all the world the doom that awaits, the events that compose my end. My blood will spill by your hand. You tell me my God is false, I tell you He is here. I pray for you to turn from this, a life of falsehood to the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Satan's lies have consumed you. A soul blackened by hate. Let the torture begin. My blood spills out, I will not deny. My flesh is torn, I will not deny. Your life is not lost, I forgive what you have done. I can not deny, for I will be denied.Thanks.
Thank you, please translate into comprehensible language, perhaps English, yes?
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 05:40
How about translating it into sane.  On the other hand, don't bother.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 05:51
Quote from: JimL on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 05:40
How about translating it into sane.  On the other hand, don't bother.

With you there.
Anyone enjoy the 4th symphony of Marques, sometimes broadcast over BBC's Through the Night program (and other stations)?
(Or just as a thought, JN David's symphonies? :) )
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world
Post by: Peter1953 on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 06:37
Quote from: naimdj62 on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 04:27
WE have seen Of all the unrecorded music in all the world the doom that awaits, the events that compose my end. My blood will spill by your hand. You tell me my God is false, I tell you He is here. I pray for you to turn from this, a life of falsehood to the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Satan's lies have consumed you. A soul blackened by hate. Let the torture begin. My blood spills out, I will not deny. My flesh is torn, I will not deny. Your life is not lost, I forgive what you have done. I can not deny, for I will be denied.Thanks.

On 12 April I have posted a message that this year some very weird members joined (see: Problems / Ghost Members). If they send us a message, it's nonsense and has nothing to do with discussing music. If they don't, they hope us to visit their commercial websites. 
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: thalbergmad on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 12:37
Looks like we have a "tambo banger" amongst us.

Thal
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 16:16
He's banged his last tambo here....
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Jonathan on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 19:31
Nutters... ;)
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Marcus on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 10:35
Hello Martin,
What have you started here ? -  but some interesting submissions keep rolling in.It is obvious that most of us have extensive wish lists, so rather than start another thread, why not change the rules slightly to allow an ongoing wish list. As I stated in an earlier post, I, like most, can provide a different name every day. It will eventually peter out, but it does make interesting reading, with names many of us have never heard of, and one day who knows what will be revealed ? (Nicholl comes to mind already)
Without detracting from your original purpose, I am sure a few more names & suggestions will not muddy the waters too much.
Thanks anyway - you probably have enough to work with already !
Marcus.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: thalbergmad on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 12:10
Quote from: Jonathan on Tuesday 27 April 2010, 19:31
Nutters... ;)

There are probably people that think we are.

Anyway, I am off to play some Steibelt which is completely sane. I am attempting to record the Storm Rondo and perhaps one of the sonatas.

Great music.

Thal
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Peter1953 on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 13:12
Whatever happened to Hans Huber's 2nd PC? I would love to see it recorded.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 20:20
Quote from: Peter1953 on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 13:12
Whatever happened to Hans Huber's 2nd PC? I would love to see it recorded.

There's a 2-piano reduction here:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No.2,_Op.107_(Huber,_Hans) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No.2,_Op.107_(Huber,_Hans))

No idea as to score or parts. But there's a start. (The 4th concerto in reduction is on the same site.)
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 29 April 2010, 07:02
Quote from: eschiss1 on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 20:20
Quote from: Peter1953 on Wednesday 28 April 2010, 13:12
Whatever happened to Hans Huber's 2nd PC? I would love to see it recorded.

There's a 2-piano reduction here:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No.2,_Op.107_(Huber,_Hans) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No.2,_Op.107_(Huber,_Hans))

No idea as to score or parts. But there's a start. (The 4th concerto in reduction is on the same site.)
Eric

I recall this issue being raised some years ago, with the conclusion that at least the concerto's orchestral score had been lost.

That is a pity, because particularly the 3rd concerto is one of my favourite in the genre - and really head above shoulders of anything else I know from Huber.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 30 April 2010, 13:30
I think I recall Bo Hyttner telling me that the Full score and orchestral material of the 2nd PC of Huber is missing and that although there is extant a MS of the 4th PC it is in very poor condition with many pages missing so that reconstruction would take a long time and cost a lot of money, which is why Sterling have made no attempt (and have no plans) to try to reconstruct and record PCs 2 & 4.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Peter1953 on Friday 30 April 2010, 13:41
I understand, but what can be the reason that the score of the orchestral material has disappeared? What happened with Huber's legacy after his death?
Gareth, do you have any idea whether the scores of the VC and CC are still around somewhere?
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 30 April 2010, 17:41
The full score may never have been published and it would be quite usual for the orchestral parts to remain in MS, only the 2-piano score for pianists to practise being printed. Such MS items got lost regularly. A similar fate seems to have been suffered by Stavenhagen 2; Siboni; Moscheles 8 and numerous others. Quite often the composer made only a "short score" (i.e for solo instrument and piano, the orchestral parts being indicated in the 2nd piano part) and would conduct from this - so a full score was never, in fact, produced. This was the case with many concertos before about 1860.
Where MS material is concerned we are frequently dependent on the relatives of the composer for preserving his/her materials. Far too often they have been cavalier and careless with these precious items, sometimes deeming them of no worth and actually destroying them!
I don't know if the Cello Concerto exists still, but Bayerische Staatsbibliothek has a copy of the Piano/Violin score of the Violin Concerto Op. 40 (as, I believe has Library of Congress). The score was published by Schott of Leipzig in 1879 so that publishing house may have a copy in their archives. The 4th PC was published by Hug of Leipzig. As you know, so much wonderful music was lost in the bombing raids on that city in WWII.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: oldman on Monday 03 May 2010, 00:03
The Rubenstein D Major Sextet has just become available at the IMSLP.

http://imslp.org/imglnks/usimg/5/5d/IMSLP63228-PMLP129041-Rubinstein_-_String_Sextet__Op._97__score_.pdf


Looks very interesting so far.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: RoothamRVWFinzi on Monday 03 May 2010, 06:52
Hello All,

I have just joined this listing and after reading many discussion threads, I am very enthusiastic. Here are three musical pieces I would like to see make it to a CD recording - all by the British composer Cyril Rootham:

Ode on the Morning of Christ's Nativity (soprano, chorus and orchestra), the elegaic choral work Brown Earth and his Second Symphony.

I've got every recording of Rootham's work on CD (not a huge amount) and his music is both beautiful and stunning. There is just so much out there still to be recorded and discovered by the listening public....and I'm not just talking about Rootham here.....it is all very exciting!!!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Monday 03 May 2010, 08:28
Yes, Cyril Rootham is certainly a composer who should be better represented on disc, although Richard Hickox's EMI collection is splendid, as is Vernon Handley's Lyrita account of the first symphony. In addition, the BBC holds important broadcast recordings which should certainly be more widely available:

Ode on the Morning of Christ's Nativity: Teresa Cahill, Philip Langridge, Michael Rippon, BBC Concert Orchestra and BBC Singers conducted by Vernon Handley (18th December 1975)

Symphony No.2 (Revelation Symphony): BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and Scottish Philharmonic Singers conducted by Vernon Handley (28th January 1984)
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Marcus on Monday 03 May 2010, 12:41
I also have the Rootham symphony no1, and find it very rewarding. Apparently his Symphony no2 was fully sketched out with the help of friends and past pupils during his final illness in 1938, with the orchestration completed according to the composer's wishes by Patrick Hadley. It was given its first hearing by the BBC, (from the Maida Vale Studio) on 17/3/1939, conducted by Adrain Boult.
From a report at the time: "The second symphony contrasts strongly with the vigorous & genial 1st. It bears the signs of struggle, both physical & spiritual, the work of a man facing tragedy, with a high courage & faith. It culminates in a chorus of womens voices singing words from the Revelation of St.John, beginning with 'There shall be no more death' ." Hopefully one of the British recording labels will take it up.
Marcus.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: edurban on Monday 10 May 2010, 00:09
Revilod, I could not agree with you more about the operas of Saint-Saens, especially Proserpine, Ascanio, L'Ancetre & Les Barbares (as Samson et Dalila, Henri VIIIHelene, La Princesse Jaune are all currently available.)  Good modern studio recordings of Etienne Marcel & Dejanire would also be nice.  Btw, I have an extra recording of Etienne Marcel in a French radio broadcast of a Montpelier opera production if you want it.  PM me, I only need a stamped envelope.  It's a very interesting piece, hardly worthy of Tchaikovsky's scorn...)

A website called House of Opera (try googling it) offers private recordings of a Radio France (I'm assuming, these things are always a little vague) 1957 broadcast of the comic opera Phryne, as well as Serge Baudo's performance of the 1911 grand opera version of Dejanire (excerpts only) from Lyon in 1985.  Phryne is in good sound, Dejanire only OK, but worth hearing...

It's amazing to me that we have so many Pacini and Mercadante operas in fine modern recordings (mind you, I'm grateful for them...) but so little Saint-Saens...

David
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 10 May 2010, 05:49
Well, we only have Mercadante and Pacini because of Peter Moores - and he's a millionaire. At approx. £150,000 a throw, it's hardly surprising that recording opera is a hit-and-miss affair...
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: TerraEpon on Monday 10 May 2010, 06:43
Saint-Saens also gets the short end of the stick with piano music. Much of it is only available on the horrible Vox set, with some of it in mono (1970s mono for god sakes!), an absolutely tepid version of Carnival, and hardly complete as advertised.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: edurban on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 02:12
Alan, we also get Ambroise Thomas courtesy of Peter Moores, but alas no Saint-Saens.  Back in the old flush days of classical recording we had Massenet's Esclarmonde, 2 different La Navarraises, Therese, Don Quichotte(s)...there's even a brand new Jongleur de Notre Dame on DG.  Where are the Bonynges, Alagnas, Moores for poor Saint-Saens?
It was so even in the later days of Saint-Saens life when he wrote of Paris 'They want any operas but mine...'

David
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 11:36
Listening to some of these 'live' recordings of opera's,(and operetta,if you like that sort of thing), one can't help but yearn for the starry,studio recordings of days gone by. And,sorry to sound like an old curmudgeon;but allot of recordings of rare and neglected opera,and operetta,are ruined for me by the singers,who all seem to sound the same these days. Bland!
Take for example the 60's recordings of opera's by the underated Lortzing,made by emi. I mean,okay the sound quality is reverberant and not exactly hi-fi by todays standards,but you only have to look at the cast list. Or,what about the Sony recording of Weinberger's 'Schwanda the Bagpiper',the Massenet recordings you mention,the emi electrola Humperdinck 'Konigskinder',the starry emi electrola & Pathe  series of complete recordings of German and French operetta's,rare opera's from emi & RCA like Flotow's 'Martha', Nicolai's 'The Merry Wives of Windsor', or even Kienzl's 'Der Evangelimann'. The quality of the casting,the charisma & distinctive voices of singers you can identify immeadiately,without even having to look at the booklet! The studio conditions making the ideal conditions for an opera or operetta you may never see or hear live.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 12:13
When a millionaire is involved, the choices may inevitably be personal. And who could blame him?

Then, what about Draeseke's operas? Not even a sniff of any of them - nor of Raff's....
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: thalbergmad on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 20:21
Well, if i win the lottery you can look forward to the complete Piano Concertos by Steibelt and a Herz/de Meyer transcriptions disk.

Thal
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 21:50
I'd do Havergal Brian's The Tigers,or pay for them to release the BBC recording,because I don't think you could do it much better. Oh,and every opera by Holbrooke,not just the 'Cauldron of Annwn' cycle.(But I've told you all before!).
Anyway,with regard to Millionaire Philanthropists. They always seem to have rather mainstream tastes. One exception was the 'Grateful Dead',who were very keen on Havergal Brian. I seem to remember it was called the 'Rex Foundation'.? (Forgive me if I'm wrong). But they didn't pay out for whole opera's,or anything big like that. I think they just acted as sponsors,mainly. Wouldn't it make a change if a millionaire,or Multi-millionaire, paid out for,say, a Raff opera,as you suggest,or (part of,at least), August von Bungert's massive operatic tetralogy,'Homerische Welte' ,Holst's 'The Perfect Fool',one of Rutland Boughton's Arthurian cycle, Jaromir Weinberger's 'The Outcasts of Poker Flat' or D'Indy's 'Fervaal',or an unrecorded Humperdinck or Pizzetti opera,(just for me!),and some more 19th century English opera's. Some hope,eh! I've just GOT to make a million. somehow!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: albion on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 22:00
With regard to 19th century British opera, Victorian Opera Northwest have recently recorded William Vincent Wallace's Lurline and George Macfarren's Robin Hood, the former for release this summer, the latter for release this winter - both projects fully worthy of our support:

http://www.victorianoperanorthwest.org/Recordings/Lurlinerecording.htm (http://www.victorianoperanorthwest.org/Recordings/Lurlinerecording.htm)

http://www.victorianoperanorthwest.org/Recordings/RobinHoodrecording.htm (http://www.victorianoperanorthwest.org/Recordings/RobinHoodrecording.htm)
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 22:29
Pengelli- the Rex Foundation it is (and good work they've done...) (there was a documentary about it featuring interviews with Brian and Simpson among others, and some of their music, that I caught on TV in the early 1990s I believe...) Named after Rex Jackson, a Grateful Dead roadie, according to the Wikipedia article...
Eric
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:22
Great!  Maybe we can contact Bob Weir, or some other survivor from the group and turn him on to some of our other stuff!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:29
Indeed,I just had a look at their website. They certainly do allot,yet keep a lower profile than some I can think of. I even keep meaning to try one of their albums. I gather that 'American Beauty' is regarded, by some,as their best album. I am.actually quite, partial to  'Jefferson Airplane' and 'Quicksilver Messenger Service'............ahem,this IS an unsung Rock band message board,isn't it?!!!!
    I remember that part of the deal,when they helped fund a Havergal Brian cd,was for to the Havergal Brian Society to return the favour by attending a 'Grateful Dead' concert.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: chill319 on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:30
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 12:13
what about Draeseke's operas?
Strauss (of all people) promoted performance of a Draeseke opera in the late 1930s, a time when there were plenty of other neglected Aryan operas, including Guntram. Does it all come down to the librettos?
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Pengelli on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:33
Talking about Rock/pop music circa 1960's. I remember when I bought Janis Joplin's 'I got dem old Kozmic Blues again mama' album,my mum said, 'Is she related to Scott Joplin'?
   Erm,maybe we could have a go JimL!
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:33
Nah, it's money again.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: chill319 on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:36
Quote from: Pengelli on Tuesday 11 May 2010, 23:29
I gather that 'American Beauty' is regarded, by some,as their best album.
How many bands have had a non-performing composer-in-residence (Robert Hunter, listed as "songwriter" in the 'American Beauty' credits)?
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Christopher on Friday 04 June 2010, 10:29
Have Napravnik's four symphonies been recorded?
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 04 June 2010, 12:53
Certainly not in the modern era.
Title: Re: Of all the unrecorded music in all the world...
Post by: JimL on Saturday 05 June 2010, 00:12
I've already mentioned them to Ralph Couzens on the Chandos Forum.