Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: eschiss1 on Thursday 13 April 2017, 05:40

Title: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 13 April 2017, 05:40
Just noticed this (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Apr/Rufinatscha_article.htm), by Andrew Hartman, mentioned near the top of their weekly mailing.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 13 April 2017, 09:36
Thanks very much indeed, Eric.

As far as I know, this is the first major article in English about Rufinatscha's music. It's a very fine assessment.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: chill319 on Monday 24 April 2017, 00:34
While Alan's judgment is most prudent and truly one to be recommended, Hartman's article presents a few points one might quibble with. Just for starters, while repeated emphasis is given to Rufinatscha's musical relationship to Schubert, during Rufinatscha's formative years Schubert was, reputation-wise,  a rather minor composer. Sechter, on the other hand, was a well-known and exceptionally prolific composer (his 8000 works put Czerny to shame), and among Rufinatscha's Viennese contemporaries, Lachner, in fact, was the young composer to watch. Schubert 's single late session with Sechter says much more about Sechter's own considerable reputation than it does about Sechter's perceived pedagogical influence on Schubert. In short, a worthy unsung composer may well develop his craft through imitatio of other today-unsung composers. In the long haul, if not the end, it comes down not to craft or prestigious patrimony but to whether a composer has something authentic to share.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 24 April 2017, 07:43
In the final analysis, Rufinatscha's voice is an extraordinarily individual one.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Santo Neuenwelt on Monday 24 April 2017, 19:10
What I would like to know is where can one find copies of his 2 string quartets and 2 piano quartets recorded a few years back on the Tiroler Landmuseum and Sparkasse labels? The library of the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde? The Austrian National Library? The Bayerischestaatsbibliothek? We would like to reprint these works if we could find them.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 24 April 2017, 19:20
The best thing to do, I think, would be to contact Franz Gratl in Innsbruck here:
F.Gratl@tiroler-landesmuseen.at

Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Santo Neuenwelt on Monday 24 April 2017, 21:38
Okay, thanks Alan. We will do that.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 24 April 2017, 23:50
I understood that most of Rufinatscha's MSS are in a collection at the Tiroler Landesmuseum.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 25 April 2017, 10:57
Quite. Hence my recommendation.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Santo Neuenwelt on Tuesday 02 May 2017, 20:20
Well Alan, after getting you advice I immediately sent an email to Herr Gratl but unfortunately, he has not responded. Perhaps there is someone else there to contact.

There is some small chance I will be in Austria this summer and I can stop in Innsbruck. Been there many times but not to the Landesmuseum. Of course, I would rather we could get a hold of someone through email...
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 02 May 2017, 22:27
I would re-send the email. Franz Gratl is the correct person to contact. Mention my name, if you like - I've done a lot of translation work for him.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: JimL on Wednesday 03 May 2017, 14:01
Good luck, Santo!  Maybe you'll find the errant wind parts for the C minor Symphony!
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Santo Neuenwelt on Wednesday 03 May 2017, 18:02
Thanks again Alan for your advice. I will do that. I'll try Tirolerdeutsch, maybe that will work
Servus
Santo
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: razorback on Wednesday 29 November 2017, 22:29
Hi All:

I am a new member [registered today] just getting my sea legs on your wonderful and exciting blog so forgive me if I screw up at the start.  I read your material on Johann Rufinatscha the other day along with the article by Andrew Hartman on MusicWeb.  Following Hartman's advice, I went to the Tiroler Landesmuseen website to check what Rufinatscha they had currently available.  Several emails later, museum secretary Silvia Eller informed me that they are having a christmas campaign from the 3th December 2017 to the 6th January 2018 and that if your order in this time you can get all CD with 50% discount.  Thought this was something all you Rufinatscha fans would like to know and at the same time get my 'probie' status upgraded sooner than what is usually normal. 

I am just a good-old-boy from Arkansas who happens to like classical romantic music along with his Glen Campbell.

Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: hyperdanny on Wednesday 29 November 2017, 23:28
thanks razorback, I was just checking the museum's website yesterday, because I didn't know exactly when the annual sale would begin..I still have some of their cd's left to buy!
..and welcome aboard (even if I am probably the newest member here aside from you  ;))
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 29 November 2017, 23:34
Welcome to UC, razorback. And thanks for the heads-up about the TL Xmas half-price offer. They've done this before, but it's good to know that they're doing it again.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Richard Moss on Thursday 30 November 2017, 09:32
What excellent news.  Tks for the heads up! I too still have a few of their CDs I want to get and have had to wait until they are available 'discounted'.  For the benefit of the new members, although the web-site to purchase CDs is in German I've found in the past either UC members or Ms Eller (via e-mail) most helpful (as well as the purchases themselves - Rufinatscha et al) being exceptionally enjoyable).

Good hunting!

Best wishes

Richard
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: FBerwald on Thursday 30 November 2017, 09:44
Are these CD's available as FLAC downloads anywhere?
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 30 November 2017, 11:18
No, sorry.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Santo Neuenwelt on Thursday 30 November 2017, 18:39
Hello Alan
You know, despite three different emails, and one in "Tiroler Deutsch" we never got any response from the gentleman you recommended we contact, nor from anyone else at the Tiroler Landesmuseum. We would very much like to reprint or make first time editions of Rufinatscha's chamber music but have had no luck getting anywhere.

Seeing as how you have had contact with the museum, perhaps you might ask on our behalf if there are any copies of his published chamber music or manuscripts of it. Naturally, we would be prepared to pay for scanned copies etc...

And Eric, with your expertise of libraries, do you know if any have copies of his published chamber music. Thanks in advance to both of you.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 30 November 2017, 18:55
Unfortunately I no longer do any work for the TLM as I'm too busy with other projects, so I doubt very much if I could be of service. Maybe they're just not interested in having the scores reprinted.

One possible avenue might be to ask how you can get hold of scores for performing purposes. That might flush out their status and whereabouts...
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 01 December 2017, 02:16
Hrm. I see some of his piano works listed in a few library catalogs (ÖNB has a piano sonata and two lieder Opp.1&2, Duke University has the Op.6 Rondo, the Op.3 sonata is @ Württembergische Landesbibliothek, likewise the fantasy for piano and the marches op.4 dedicated to Liszt) but if any of his chamber music has been published (I'm not sure it has- perhaps it's all in manuscript @ Tirol still, not even in critical editions yet??... don't know?) I don't see it so far in any searches, but - well- more searching to do... :)
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Santo Neuenwelt on Friday 01 December 2017, 18:54
Well, thanks guys. Thought it was worth a try. We have two CDs which were made of two piano quartets by the Geistig Trio of Munich and two string quartets by the Christian String Quartet. They were made way back in 2000 and 2001 but released, at least in the US, only in the past few years. Both are on private labels, one of the Tiroler Landesmuseum in Innsbruck, the other by Sparkasse, a big Austrian bank, but both copyrighted by the TL.

According to the jacket notes, the string quartets date from 1850 and 1870 and were recorded for the first time. There is a picture of the manuscript score of the second movement of his 1870 string quartet on the back page of the jacket notes. As a performing musician, I can tell you that it is unlikely that these players read off of a manuscript of the score. Most likely, they played off of parts made by a copyist, but maybe they were published somewhere. The Italian publisher Mechetti of Vienna published some of his works, but apparently no chamber music.

I guess the only way we are going to get copies of either the score or parts is either by visiting the museum or contacting the performers, a long shot, and asking if they could provide copies...
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 December 2017, 21:01
Yes, that's the way to go (i.e. to the performers), I agree.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 01 December 2017, 22:14
His main publishers seem to have  been- at least per HMB - Witzendorf and Gotthard, with some other works published by Diabelli (besides Pietro Mechetti). An overture (Op.12) (possibly??? the overture performed in full orchestral form on the Chandos CD?) was published in piano duet reduction by Schott in 1869. The last contempory publication I know of (barring misspellings that make quick searches difficult; I'm lazy) was a piano sonata published by Haslinger in 1880.

The Universitat Innsbruck has a copy of the piano sonata Op.3 (Permanent Link (https://bibsearch.uibk.ac.at:443/UIB:Blended:UIB_alma21186527100003333) ) and offers to digitize it for about 14 ?? EU or so (given that it's 33 pages?).  (Don't know the policy of the other mentioned libraries wrt loaning or digitizing the various other published works.)
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 December 2017, 22:54
You could also try contacting Dr Manfred Schneider who was in charge of the recordings of chamber music back in the day at the TLM. I have this email address, but I'm not sure whether it's still extant:
m.schneider@tiroler-landesmuseen.at

Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 December 2017, 23:00
...in fact this webpage suggests that the scores should be available, but in the form of newly-made digital copies:
http://www.musikland-tirol.at/html/html/musikedition/links.html (http://www.musikland-tirol.at/html/html/musikedition/links.html)

This was the form in which the score of Symphony No.6 (5) was made available to the BBC in Manchester in advance of the broadcast performance and subsequent recording by Chandos.

As well as Manfred Schneider's email address, this email address is given:
itmf.ms@musikland-tirol.at




Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 December 2017, 23:13
By the way, the String Quartet in G major (ca.1870) is an absolutely sublime and supremely moving work. One of the very greatest works in the genre from that period. Its mastery is quite stupefying. Unfortunately it seems that the CD is no longer available.

Every time I return to the composer I find myself convinced once again of his stature.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: hyperdanny on Monday 04 December 2017, 08:39
Yesterday i posted my "Christmas sale" order to the Museum.
Very happy , now I have everything I need in their catalogue..especially considering that a couple weeks ago I was finally able to snatch the Netzer 2&3 on ebay (the museum does not list it anymore, it's unfindable anywhere, and Netzer has been a revelation to me) .
Finally, in this order I got the Museum's Rufinatscha 6...I don't know what's the consensus here, but I find it superior to the BBCPO/Noseda both in execution (so much more "fire") and recorded sound.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 December 2017, 09:35
Quote...the Museum's Rufinatscha 6...I don't know what's the consensus here, but I find it superior to the BBCPO/Noseda both in execution (so much more "fire") and recorded sound.

It's just too slow, though. When Noseda came along I was relieved to hear the music played up to speed. Mind you, I'm probably biased because I was present at the recording.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: hyperdanny on Monday 04 December 2017, 11:08
Good point..it's just that , while I am surely keeping the Noseda, I like the 6th more "imposing"..or slow if you want..
To me, Noseda's fastest tempos do not communicate special involvement, just a more business-like rendition.
But in any case we're so lucky to have 2 recordings, even different in interpretation approach! What a luxury for an unsung!
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 December 2017, 11:15
I learned the 6th (now '5th') Symphony from a two-piano arrangement which the TLM released before the full orchestral recording was made. I was, of course, bowled over by Seipenbusch's performance at the time and will always treasure it. Perhaps it's a case of (late) Walter (or Klemperer) vs Toscanini - there are glories in both approaches...
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 04 December 2017, 22:55
a recording of the arrangement or the arrangement itself?

A piano duet (not 2 pianos, piano duet, so this may be a different arrangement) version of the score published by Gotthard in 1870 (and reviewed in a contemporary issue of AMZ, I think??) can be downloaded from BSB Munich or IMSLP now, btw...
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 04 December 2017, 23:23
It was a recording, not the score. I can't locate the CD in my collection, but now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure it was a piano 4-hands arrangement. Please excuse my confusion.
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: hyperdanny on Tuesday 05 December 2017, 09:57
May I ask a question? I'm a little confused about the numbering of Rufinatscha's symphonies..I thought that referring to the "old 6th" as the "new 5th" was relative to the fact that what was thought being the 3rd did not really exist.
If this is true (and I might be mistaken) ..hasn't it been rendered obsolete after the 3rd was "completed" by Huber?
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 05 December 2017, 11:39
Here's what I wrote before, summarising an article written by the TLM's Dr Franz Gratl:

Symphony No. 1 in D major "Mein erstes Studium" (composed: Innsbruck, 1834; performed: Innsbruck, 1844)

Symphony No. 2 in E flat major (composed: Vienna, 1840; performed: Vienna, Feb.1844)

Symphony No. 3 in C minor (string parts only have survived - discovered 2007; composed: Vienna 1846;
     performed: Vienna, September 1846; wind/brass/timpani parts reconstructed by Michael F. P. Huber for first
     modern performances on 24 and 25 November 2012)

Symphony No. 4 in B minor (formerly known as No.5 - composed: Vienna 1846; performed: Vienna, October
    1846?)

Symphony No. 5 in D major (formerly known as No.6 - composed: Vienna 1850; performed: Vienna,
    Easter Monday 1852?)

Three Movements of a Symphony in C major (formerly erroneously identified as 'Symphony No.4 in C 
     minor'
- 1846: piano four-hands score presumed never orchestrated. Undated.)

Notes:

(i) The work formerly identified as 'Symphony No. 3 in F major - lost' never existed. Instead, it seems that the work in F major is actually a concert aria with an opening orchestral section in the same key (which was taken to be the opening of an unidentified symphony).

(ii) The work formerly identified as 'Symphony No. 4 in C minor' (1846 - of which only the piano four-hands adaptation of its three extant movements survives) is now properly identified as 'Three Movements of a Symphony in C major (not minor): presumed never orchestrated'. It is undated and therefore cannot be included in the numbered canon. It was erroneously identified as the Symphony in C minor now correctly known as No.3 (above).

So, to sum up, Rufinatscha wrote five full symphonies; the orchestration of No.3 was recently completed by contemporary composer Michael Huber. Three movements of a further symphony in C major exist in a piano four-hands version. There never was a symphony in F.

We can say, then, that Rufinatscha wrote five and three-quarter symphonies!
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: hyperdanny on Wednesday 06 December 2017, 09:38
all clear, thanks very much Alan!
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 06 December 2017, 10:03
Complicated, isn't it? A case of evolving scholarship over the past twenty years or so...
Title: Re: Rufinatscha article @ MusicWeb
Post by: hyperdanny on Thursday 14 December 2017, 21:18
yes very interesting....anyway, a few day ago I received my Christmas order from the Museum.
So far I could listen to only a couple cd's (ah, those Christmas errands..) but I am very happy so far; the Rufinatscha 3rd is surely very good , even if the completion strikes me as somewhat inauthentic)..but the Nagiller symphony is a revelation, it's uneven, it does not quite fully fulfill the promise of the fantastic 1st movement but still..I listened to it 5 times already..