Composer Rivalries?

[JimL]

I'd be very surprised if Rufinatscha influenced Brahms at all. He seems to have been unsung even in his own lifetime.

True.  But at least the 5th Symphony got a performance (in 1846, IIRC). 

[monafam]

I never knew that Brahms was so "controversial" in terms of being a polemical figure in some respects.

With Mozart and Salieri:  Were they on fairly equal footing in terms of composing Opera?  If so, was that the only genre they were equal?   (I always see Mozart as way past him -- but, to use a somewhat archaic American expression, I always saw Mozart as the "Michael Jordan" (perhaps Wayne Gretzky would be more fitting because he truly did what nobody did before him) of composing.

[Peter1953]

Another famous rivalry was between what is said to be the greatest living pianist of his days, Franz Liszt, and the second best, Sigismund Thalberg.

It happened in Paris in the 1830s, with a rich musical life and where so many pianist virtuosos lived. It was the Princess Cristina Belgiojoso-Trivulzio who challengd both virtuosos to play at their best for a selected audience of Parisians in the princess's apartment on the 29th of March, 1837. The audience had to find out, who was definitely the greatest pianist in the world. Both Liszt and Thalberg picked up the challenge. It was in those days very popular to write paraphrases on operas. Thalberg chose his own Fantaisie sur des motifs de "Moïse", op. 33 (from Rossini's opera Moses), and Liszt took his own Divertissement sur la cavatine "I tuoi frequenti palpiti", S.419 (from Pacini's opera La Nioble).
The audience seemed overcome by emotion after hearing both virtuosos. It was the princess who is supposed to have said: Liszt is the greatest pianist, Thalberg is the only pianist. Newspapers reported: Never did Thalberg show greater refinement and ease at the piano, and: Never did Liszt play with more verve and tenderness. Thus, two victors.
(source: Steven Mayer in his booklet notes belonging to his CD Liszt vs. Thalberg).

Another opinion is that Anton Rubinstein was the second best, and rivaled at the keyboard only by Liszt. But that was a decade later. When Rubinstein was still studying, he went to Vienna in 1846 to seek Liszt's help and advice. But it is rather strange that Liszt, always very helpfull to others, refused to give Rubinstein lessons and showed nothing but indifference. Did Liszt already notice Rubinstein's virtuosity and really thought he could not teach him anything anymore? Or was Liszt afraid of a potential rival virtuoso?

[Alan Howe]

Mark is quite right to mention Grimm. The recording of his Symphony in D minor, written in the 1850s, would help fill out the picture of the development of the symphony pre-Brahms no end.

[chill319]

For those who love both Brahms and Draeseke, a modern scholarly edition of Draeseke's clarinet sonata, opus 38 (predating Brahms's clarinet works by a decade or so) has recently become available on IMSLP. The date of publication is 1985, so I'm surprised it is freely available and am putting this note here in case it is blocked in the not too distant future.

[thalbergmad]

My understanding is that this will be in the public domain, since it is only a new edition of an out of Copyright work.

I think IMSLP have learned their lesson from the UE affair and are unlikely to let something similar happen again.

Thal

[Josh]

Certainly, in the field of opera one of the best known composer rivalries has to be between Mozart and Salieri. Ironically, Mozart's son, Franz Xaver Mozart had Salieri as one of his teachers. In the early 19th Century there must certainly have been some rivalry between pianist composers such as Ignaz Moschelles and John Field.

The W.A. Mozart - Salieri rivalry was a myth. Pushkin wanted to write a play and knew about Mozart's rivalry with Leopold Kozeluch, a very minor affair that wasn't particularly heated at all from what I can tell.  However, at the time, Salieri was still quite famous, while Kozeluch was not, so the names were switched.  We have to remember that for a while, Salieri sat astride the European musical world in probably the most lucrative position that existed.  Possibly the most prestigious art-related job in the entire world, for that matter.  In 1786, a magazine said: "It is no secret that Herr Leopold Kozeluch competes with Mozart.".  Maybe Mozart shouldn't have written music for one of Kozeluch's pupils... but at that time, a rivalry basically meant competing for attention and favour at schmoozing events and parties of nobles.  In addition, Kozeluch famously also rubbed Beethoven and F.J. Haydn the wrong way, so I'd guess there was no specific rivalry here at all.  One of Mozart's friends also made mention somewhere that he knew not to mention Kozeluch in Mozart's presence.

I wonder if the Russia-based Field ever had much contact with Moscheles. Maybe they never even met. Maybe one or both never heard a note of the other's music? Unlikely, I suppose, but still, in those days it wasn't like you could download it.

[eschiss1]

My understanding is that this will be in the public domain, since it is only a new edition of an out of Copyright work.

I think IMSLP have learned their lesson from the UE affair and are unlikely to let something similar happen again.

Thal

That doesn't mean it doesn't sometimes take them awhile to find and remove etc. In this case the work itself was first published 1888, but I don't know how much editing went into the new edition so far as copyright law might be concerned in different countries (horrible grammar, I know). Better to scan the original edition to be safe, imhonesto...

[JSK]

Not sure if this story exactly matches this thread, but here goes.

Otto Nicolai, having established his position as a respectable opera composer, rejected a libretto, considering it unsuitable for an opera. The young Verdi took it up and it became his first major opera, Nabucco.