Mystery

[Theodore S.]

Hello everyone,

This is a bit of a silly question, but I can't figure this out - does anyone recognize the piece in this video? It's from the opening of the animated film "The Thief and the Cobbler", but I ask as the soundtrack makes use of a number of existing classical pieces, and this seems like it could be one of them. There are playlists on YouTube that include various pieces from the movie, but this piece isn't really included - also, IMDB provides no information on the classical tracks in the music at all. Initially I thought it might be from Vaughan William's Tallis Fantasia (as the soundtrack includes the piece), but the theme doesn't appear there and woodwinds can be heard towards the end. It's possible this is a really famous piece that I just don't recognize (as there are some more famous composers I don't really listen to), but I'd still like to know. It's clearly a romantic piece, and a very lovely one at that.

If anyone knows, please let me know!
Theodore

[semloh]

This is intriguing. It certainly sounds like VW. and the same or similar music seems to be in the backgrouind of some of the many preliminary cartoon sketches stored in the Internet Archive. It may take some time to identify - unless one of our wonderful UC members recognizes it.

[TerraEpon]

I wager it was written by Robert Folk for the film. But I could be wrong.

[Alan Howe]

My guess would be something similar.

[Theodore S.]

I have done a bit more research - there's a good chance that this is original music for the film. However, it's very likely not by Robert Folk. The film has had a very troubled production (over 30 years in the making!), and Robert Folk's soundtrack was written for an official studio cut (called the Princess and the Cobbler), while this clip is from a fan reconstruction of the original material; also, Folk's music is very Disney-musical-esque, and his soundtrack can be heard on YouTube.

The man who lead the team effort to reconstruct the movie from its original material, Garret Gilchrist, had this to say about this opening music:

"Much of the music in The Thief workprint isn't known to us. Some of it is clearly original, including the opening overture. Some of it we've been able to identify, including the frequent use of Scheherezade.

The Recobbled Cut has included classical pieces and portions of the Princess and the Cobbler/Arabian Knight score, but the additional music has not yet been added to the Mark 4 version."

(Here is the page this quote comes from: https://orangecow.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3&p=559&hilit=opening#p559)

If this music truly is part of an original soundtrack, my personal hypothesis is that the composer may have used the Tallis Fantasia as an inspiration. This is based on another video of an early animation test of the same opening sequence, but which actually uses the Tallis Fantasia as the background music. Perhaps this piece was written in a similar way to the soundtracks in the Star Wars franchise, for which John Williams basically made his own versions of existing pieces (Rite of Spring, Rachmaninoff's Symphony no. 2, etc.).

However, being that no definitive answer exists as yet, I think there is still a possibility that this piece does come from a less-known work of classical music, as it was clearly composed and orchestrated to a very high standard, comparable with most known romantic pieces. While there are other apparently original tracks in the film's score which are comparable to classical pieces, a lot of other known tracks aren't similar to this one at all. As such, I leave the question open, as there may be someone here or elsewhere who will recognize this piece. (My guess is that the hypothetical romantic-era composer of this piece would have been from Great Britain, judging by the style.) In any case, I'll do some more research on the topic.

[Gareth Vaughan]

It sounds very much to me as if it were written specifically for the movie. I don't find it particularly distinguished.

[Alan Howe]

Nor do I, sadly. However, there is, I am sure, a piece of music very much like VW's Tallis Fantasia written (I think) by an American composer. Trouble is, I can't remember who.

[Theodore S.]

Nor do I, sadly. However, there is, I am sure, a piece of music very much like VW's Tallis Fantasia written (I think) by an American composer. Trouble is, I can't remember who.

If you ever remember the American piece, I would love to hear it!

[Alan Howe]

I looked online for a reference to the piece, but without success.

[Hector]

Same sound world as Canning's Fantasy on a Hymn Tune.