Ferdinand Thieriot

[Alan Howe]

Thanks for the reminder about Fuchs, although I wouldn't rate him as a symphonist.

Draeseke's 4th is very much a postscript to his symphonic output - and a sui generis commentary on the rising tide of modernism. I wrote about it years back in discussion with Dr Alan Krueck:
https://draeseke.org/essays/sym4howe.htm

At the moment, as far as original symphonists are concerned, I think we're left with Thieriot and, once we've heard the rest of his 1st Symphony, probably Reinhold Becker.
Reminders:
Thieriot No.5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSuKduRk_Ic&t=207s
Reinhold Becker No.1 (whole work): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievZpsWSPow&t=647s

[Reverie]

Should be able to put up the completed Becker later this week all being well.

[Alan Howe]

Wahay!!!!

[Alan Howe]

Of Thieriot's contemporaries I'd completely forgotten about Ernst Rudorff (1840-1916) whose terrific 3rd Symphony was first performed in 1911.

[Maury]

Thanks for this thread. I purchased a CD of Theriot's chamber works (Octet in B flat and a Quintet). Very satisfying music. I hope more of his chamber works can be issued. As for the symphonies the outlook is increasingly dim IMO because of the economics. I did like the Symphony 5.

[FBerwald]

Weren't Theriot's Piano Concertos going to be recorded for Hyperions RPC. Any update on that?

[Maury]

Listening to the Becker Symphony 1 I think this is the first time I have heard a work that seems to combine elements of the symphonic style of both Brahms and Bruckner. Do others agree or disagree? I like his control over the brass section. My criticism of a number of the unsungs symphonies relates either to a hesitant or rather formulaic use of the brass section. This affects their Finales particularly. The strings and woodwinds are generally handled well by them in contrast. The Becker has good integration of the 3 sections though.

[Alan Howe]

Becker's style derives from mainly from Wagner, I think. This may explain your findings.

[Maury]

I get it that the harmony was more along Wagnerian lines. This is of course an initial impression but there was a kind of solid warmth occasionally to the orchestration that was characteristic of Brahms but more rarely of Bruckner. By solid warmth I mean a rather close integration from bass to treble of the orchestral sections.  Anyway I thought it was a good effort along with the Theriot Sym 5. I wonder why Becker did not write more symphonies.

[Alan Howe]

Becker was primarily a composer of songs and choral music. Please see this thread:
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3817.0.html

As a symphonist he was a very late starter; his biography suggests that he carried the music for his 1st Symphony around in his head for a long time before considering himself ready to begin the composition process.

[Maury]

I saw the old thread but missed the bio reference. So he was another Brahms! It's interesting how intimidated Austro Germanic composers were by past symphonies. I am trying to think of a similar example elsewhere in music history but can't off the top of my head. And yet composers outside of Austria and Germany were writing all kinds of symphonies without any cares. 

[Alan Howe]

To return to Thieriot: as far as I can tell no-one of his generation was writing symphonies (nine of them) over a comparable 46-year period (1872-1918). They're crying out for an enterprising label to take them up.

[Maury]

Believe me I share your wish for Theriot and some others too  but I don't know what an enterprising label is in 2024, particularly for orchestral music. I am more familiar with the US but the pandemic was rather devastating for the classical music field here. Yes the few classical music organizations that are in the largest cities like New York, Chicago and LA are perhaps about back where they were in 2019 but even those have had losses in season subscriptions which is worrisome. The second-line cities like Detroit or Cleveland are starting to sink. The breakup of the Soviet Union created some openings in the 90s and 00s for cheaper orchestral recordings in Russia and Eastern Europe but those are pretty much gone for different reasons.

I would think some crowdsourcing vehicle is more likely than relying on labels which are facing a rapidly shrinking CD and download market. In the US, CDs are actually well below vinyl now in both revenue and units sold. Even more feasible IMO would be the transcription of these symphonies for well done computer playback. Given that many people now listen to MP3s on their computer or mobile device one need not worry overly much about audiophile considerations. Just my thoughts but I do share your concern.

[Alan Howe]

cpo would be my first choice: they mostly release German radio recordings and there are conductors who would do a good job - such as Golo Berg, who tells us that his performance of Grimm's magnificent Symphony was recorded for release sometime soon. Toccata Classics have put out two superb CDs of Thieriot's chamber music, so they too might be interested.