Ludwig Thuille

[JimL]

The problem is with all them 'r's.  The actual pronunciation, IMHO is closer to "twilluh" than "twiller".  And Chevreuille rhymes more with "the boy", than "the hurry".  Although that's tougher because "eu" in French has a rather tricky pronunciation.

[wunderkind]

"Twill-eh" is not very helpful as a guide to pronunciation for English speakers. "Eh?" (pronounced "ay") is the sound made in English when a person fails to hear what somebody else has said. Thus, anybody following this guide would be led to pronounce the name "Twill-ay". "

It was my assumption, not knowing the proper diacritical mark, that most posters here, English-speaking or not, possess enough basic intelligence to realize that the "eh" sound at the end of a German word is not pronounced "ay," as mentioned above.  Especially since there is, per se, no English long "a" sound in German - and more specifically, certainly not in any case from the letter "e."  Maybe my assumption was incorrect.

So, perhaps likening the sound to the "e" sound in the English word "nest" or "well" will explain better?   

On second (or is it third) thought - who cares?  Just listen to the music!

[Alan Howe]

Unfortunately it is not possible to assume that English-speakers know how to pronounce even the simplest things in German. Listening to a current affairs programme the other day, I heard a presenter refer to a certain well-known German newspaper as the "Süddeutsch Zeitung" - in other words, she didn't realise that the 'e' on the end of the first word is sounded.

I rest my case.

[wunderkind]

Well, I was thinking only about the posters here - who, one would assume, possess a higher intelligence level and have had more exposure to foreign words and names than the general population, including news readers.  Let's face it, the average Brit cannot come near pronouncing correctly most non-English words.  I mean, Czechoslo-vaykia, for goodness sakes!  Dankt Gott the country split in two! 

[JimL]

Yeah, you're right, only it's like the 'r' produced by a three-year-old with that weird little speech impediment that three-year-olds have. 

[JimL]

And it is "twilleh", only with the Canadian "eh"!

[wunderkind]

Regardless of how one pronounces his name (the French way or the German), let's agree that he did have a formidable moustache (please, a silent "e" at the end of "moustache"):

[Mark Thomas]

I agree, the moustache takes it. Now, "Genug!".

[Alan Howe]

Yes, enough, already. But just remember who has tried to teach these issues for thirty years!

[thalbergmad]

Well, I was thinking only about the posters here - who, one would assume, possess a higher intelligence level

Well, you can count me out. I need all the help i can get.

Thal

[edurban]

Hmmmm.  Indeed, this is a learned commentary on how the the Germans pronounce French names (the family was originally French.)  But what of the music.  Have only three of us got an opinion of it?  It's not much for me to go on.  Specific recordings, anyone, including more on the symphony?

Thanks, David

[Mark Thomas]

I'm afraid that the cpo CD of Thuille's Symphony was much anticipated and proved to be a big disappointment. Both are early works (IIRC the Concerto is the later of the two) and neither has any real individuality. The Symphony is stuck stylistically in mid-19th. century Schumann/Mendelssohn territory, nicely (but not individually) orchestrated and harmonically unadventurous. Melodically I found it unmemorable, but others may disagree. The Concerto, which I played only the other day as it happens, has more, but not much more, going for it because it is melodically stronger. These are very much safe student works - no doubt his professors were pleased.

I shall now wait for the avalanche of disagreement to descend upon me. 

[Gareth Vaughan]

At the risk of being reprimanded for diverting this string into quite another channel, I would very much appreciate an informed person telling me how to pronounce "Thieriot" (as in Ferdinand).

[Peter1953]

Poor Ludwig Thuille. Mark's post was for me the motive to listen once again to the CD.
The PC (premiered in 1882 as a part of Thuille's examination program) has a few pleasant passages, and the 2nd movement is not that bad. Even the last movement has a main theme.
But the symphony (premiered in 1886). That is what I call boring. Not memorable for a second, no sparkling themes, no depth at all, just barely inspiring classical music on a very average level.
The cpo CD is perhaps worth for the PC (although definitely not a masterpiece), but I doubt I'll ever listen to Thuille's symphony again. However, I understand Thuille's chamber music should be better.

[edurban]

Peter and Mark, thanks for your comments on the cpo disc.  I'll pass on it, as the overture I heard (written a number of years later) was a very tuneful, extroverted and enjoyably orchestrated piece...an entirely different kettle of fish from what you describe.

How about the chamber music.  Anyone have the ASV disc?

David (persistant in NYC)