Erich Wolfgang Korngold

[chunaganak]

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i post foolishly. there are so many subjects here and i don't know how to find answers to questions i have. i hope you will be tolerant of me.
i've a radio program, and plan on doing a show including korngold, but a question i can't seem to answer satisfactorily for myself: does his later work sound like movie soundtracks, or do movie soundtracks sound like him?
i ask because i don't trust most of what i've read on him, as it's mostly patronizing, and i know he was considered something really new when he arrived in hollywood and began scoring. his work is so stunning and assured that i assume he must have influenced rafts of people, but it's an assumption because i've read no evidence of it.
i also want to know because i reckon if i want to know, then my listeners will want to also.
thank you in advance for your patience.

[febnyc]

Video recommendation from this thread:  http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3150.msg35289.html#msg35289.

[swanekj]

i'm new here, so please forgive me if i post foolishly. there are so many subjects here and i don't know how to find answers to questions i have. i hope you will be tolerant of me.
i've a radio program, and plan on doing a show including korngold, but a question i can't seem to answer satisfactorily for myself: does his later work sound like movie soundtracks, or do movie soundtracks sound like him?
i ask because i don't trust most of what i've read on him, as it's mostly patronizing, and i know he was considered something really new when he arrived in hollywood and began scoring. his work is so stunning and assured that i assume he must have influenced rafts of people, but it's an assumption because i've read no evidence of it.
i also want to know because i reckon if i want to know, then my listeners will want to also.
thank you in advance for your patience.

The letters his own father wrote to him (after he had rescued his father at age 75 from central europe and brought him to Hollywood too) berating his son's film scores might be interesting to examine.

You may also wish to address when "the Hollywood Sound" first appears.  I hear it in the opening to Janacek's Osud ("Destiny"), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54LvgpJcQE, from 1906!

[mbhaub]

For me, Korngold sounds like Korngold and the movies sound like that because of who he was. When I listen to his operas they sound like movie soundtracks in the making. Then, other lesser composers, wanting in on the success, modeled their scores after him so that movies started to sound like Korngold. He brought his compositional style to Hollywood as is. But realize too that he didn't do the actual scoring himself. Other musician/composers did his actual orchestration. His short scores indicated the general idea he had, but the orchestrators sure helped. He didn't write that much concert music, but another thing to remember is that his symphony is far more radical and modern than any of his film scores.
I think Korngold was hugely influential on other composers. As talented as they may be, I can't imagine Franz Waxman's Peyton Place(lord, I love that music!), John Williams Star Wars or many other scores not being written as they were if Korngold hadn't blazed the path.

[swanekj]

Actually, I think he was looking for "a new sound" when he came to Hollywood.  Heliane is about as far as you can go in thickness of orchestration, and Kathrin sounds like he was looking for something. 

I still say we should also look for other composers whose works in passing could have inspired the "Hollywood sound" as well.

[minacciosa]

It's important to remember that when Korngold arrived in Hollywood Max Steiner was already there, his having already written a number of scores including King Kong. Upon EWK's permanent residence there, film scoring truly blossomed, and it's for no other reason than the fully formed sheer genius the composer brought with him from Europe. Korngold changed nothing in his composing; his composing effortlessly changed Hollywood forever.

[Mark Thomas]

I hadn't appreciated that Korngold didn't orchestrate his own Hollywood scores.

[minacciosa]

He did orchestrate some, but the time frames involved didn't allow for the luxury of EWK's doing everything. He left detailed short scores (unlike some composers) for his orchestrators. An interesting observation is that one can tell immediately if the orchestration is Korngold's or by someone else. Orchestrations by other hands are invariably excellent, but when compared with Korngold's own one can see and hear a much greater level of detail invested in those of the composer. Pick any orchestral work from Violanta on and it's obvious. Within Robin Hood compare the bulk of the score with the sections lifted whole from his concert overture Sursum Corda. A general comment would be that the orchestrators consistently use a more massed sound with traditional employment of instrumental groups, whereas the composer's orchestrations always splinter the lines among the voices in a manner that can be accurately termed Klangfarbenmelodie.

In any event, it's no shame if a composer uses orchestrators for film scores. In some cases it's admirable that a composer knows his limitations. Not everyone enjoys or is capable of good orchestration, Gabriel Faure being a good example of both.

[mbhaub]

I've often wondered how much Korngold or his orchestrators took into account the primative sound recording methods of his era. There's just no way that the subleties of the orchestration could come through in limited, mono sound. So was the ochestral color used chosen based on how it would reproduce? His scores a full of vibraphone for example, which has a taint of "Hollywood Sound", but the sound sure comes through even on 70 year old soundtrack.