Using "Templates" from other Composers

[Alan Howe]

not "idiot"- not in the original German. I just, erm, softened Esel to "donkey".

Erm, in fact, "Esel" (used figuratively) does mean 'fool' or 'idiot'. I remember a German calling an acquaintance a "dummer Hund" (lit, "stupid dog"): I was told that that was actually very rude. So, it's a dangerous game to translate terms of abuse literally. You have to know a lot more than a dictionary can tell you...

[eschiss1]

my mistake, and no argument there (in principle; I don't know the specifics!)

[John H White]

Since I started this thread, I've been reminded by playing through the CD of his 1st and 4th symphonies, that Netzer, in the opening movement of the latter, was heavily influenced by the corresponding movement in Beethoven's Eroica Symphony. This again reminds me that Beethoven used to complain to his star pupil, Ferdinand Ries, that he copied his style to much. To me this is certainly shown in Ries's earlier symphonies, which appear to be full of Beethoven mannerisms.

[Alan Howe]

I agree, John. I've been playing Netzer 4 this week, and it seems to me that the template for the first movement was indeed the opening movement of the Eroica.

[Derek Hughes]

Decades ago, I heard a radio talk (by Antony Hopkins??) arguing that the Schumann piano concerto was patterned upon Beethoven's 4th concerto, and the Grieg upon the Schumann. None of these composers is unsung, however.

[Alan Howe]

Weren't Hopkins' talks excellent?

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Oh yes, they were wonderful things - and consistently so from talk to talk. If a capacity to respond to music was somehow innate in my make-up, I think it was Hopkins's talks that triggered that capacity and made it active. He had a super habit of getting you inside a work without ever appearing unduly technical. A great communicator as well - he showed a genuine enthusiasm for his subject, imparted it to an audience, and revealed to you all sorts of things about the music of which you hadn't been fully aware. My friends at school were busily listening to Elvis, whilst I regularly tuned into Anthony Hopkins.

To take just one little example: I've had a huge affection for Lennox Berkeley's Serenade for Strings ever since hearing Hopkins talking about it....and wouldn't that have been broadcast in the early to mid 1960s?

Anyone know whether the texts of these talks have ever been published? Or the broadcasts preserved? Would be awful to think that all that remains are the memories of a few old codgers such as myself.