Great Unsung Tone Poems

[Alan Howe]

Our ruling is simple: some form of explanation/opinion as to the choice of tone poem offered is implied by the title of the thread. So, grateful thanks to those of you who have spent the time to tell us why you think a certain a piece is "great".

So, back to tone poems + reasons, please....

[Mark Thomas]

Alan is right. There is little value to you in my telling you that I like something - all it tells you is that I like it, and you know nothing about me and my preferences. There's much more value in my telling you why I value it, because then you can judge whether you might value it too.

As for this or any other thread being subject to scrutiny, every thread and every message is read by us. That's what moderators have to do to keep the board spam and libel-free, and discussions on track to the eventual benefit of all. It appears to be a pretty thankless job at times...

[sdtom]

I just received my download yesterday of the new Chandos release "Overtures from the British Isle." Included is a work from yet another composer I'm not familiar with, Frederic Austin. His work The Sea Venturers caught my attention and I was quite taken by the precise way he wrote it.  I also read in the liner notes that he composed a symphony in E. I'm assuming that some of you are familiar with this work as well as his sea overture. The sea piece sounds like it fits quite well into the romantic era.
Tom

[Mark Thomas]

There's a short thread on Austin here, from which you'll see that his Symphony has also been recorded.

[Gounod21]

I find lists helpful( :)0,. because enjoyment of a piece of music is (to some extent, at least)subjective. However, I like 2 things:
1. Agreeing with Alan, I find people giving reasons for their enjoyment/enthusiasm/thinking a worthwhile piece of music sometimes even MORE helpful than a bare list.
2. However, just BECAUSE tastes vary, within the remit of the music covered on this site, I think lists are good because there is no value judgement other than it being in the list in the first place(which you could well argue IS a value judgement); so , having to make up your mind anyway, sometimes, from a bare list, without specific descriptors of musical worth, is just as effective way of getting into new music you wouldn't have otherwise heard of!.
So I am not siding against you Alan, but seeing both sides!I think it is a complex , circular argument:with at its core, whether you think a list is more subjective or an explanation of a work's musical merits(this site is, after all, anti-canonic)is more subjective.I have re-joined this site after quite a long absence(ex pseudonym, Steve B); I was not thrown off it but came to an amicable agreement with Mark!I really LIKE this site-it is absolutely unique in its cultivation of unknown Romantic composers:); however, looking at a lot of threads, I keep seeing admonishments against lists

[Gounod21]

Sorry, the post wouldn't let me finish!
So re not allowing lists-I find this disheartening. If it were the only feature of the forum , it would of course be boring, but it is one of many brilliant features!:) Hope u take in the spirit it is meant; as compliment(point 1  in previous post) and CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. That said, if no lists is in the UC guidelines, I will drop my point and abide BY those guidelines!. Thanks for a great Forum; I have seen over the last 2 weeks all the good stuff I have missed for about 2 years!x Steve

[Mark Thomas]

Steve, welcome back. There is no ban on lists per se. You have summarised the arguments for and against but, particularly when it comes to those lists along the lines of "if you like this, then you'll like...", I feel bound to say that we three moderators, Alan, semloh and myself, will continue to steer threads away from lists for the very reasons which Alan has explained several times over in several threads: the fact that you like or recommend a piece of music tells me, the reader, nothing about why you like it it, and it also tells me nothing about you, so that I can't judge whether a recommendation from you in the future is one upon which I can rely. If, however, you explain why you rate a piece, it not only gives me an idea whether I would also like it, it tells me something about your criteria, which is very useful when you next recommend something. Of course it takes more effort, but I think in the end everyone benefits.

[Alan Howe]

We have settled on a policy of not allowing lists mainly because we have been subjected to inordinate list-making in the past and, quite frankly, it is extremely tiresome to have to trawl through them because - as you will realise - we have to read everything. So, all we are asking is that members take time to tell us why they have mentioned a certain piece. So, for example, in this thread we don't want see long (or short) lists of tone poems without some form of explanation as to why they have been chosen. This seems to us the bare minimum for there to be any form of meaningful discussion - and that is what UC is: a discussion forum.

BTW, welcome back.

[sdtom]

I see the Dutton release on his material and I think I'll purchase it. The "Sea Venturers" have peaked my curiousity.
Tom

[Gounod21]

Thanks Mark and Alan; nice to be back:)Ok, no problem. I shall go with that.Thanks:). Best wishes, Steve

[pcc]

Since Victor Herbert's HERO AND LEANDER hasn't been mentioned since the first page, I can give some justifications for it being considered a "great" work.  The melodies and orchestration are absolutely breathtaking, and Herbert himself had a great affection for the love theme which forms the central section; he even occasionally signed autographs with that as an incipit.  It's altogether too brief for me, though it's beautifully proportioned, and without the questionable libretti he was usually saddled with (I have to say Herbert, though a very effective musical dramatist, had less literary judgment than any other successful theatre man I've ever seen) his sense of purely musical drama has a chance for full expression.  The first time I heard the work in the old Karl Krueger recording, it brought me close to tears.  Now someone has to record his Suite Romantique, for crying out loud! (and NOT Keith Brion.)

[mjmosca]

Three superb and unsung tone poems are Saint-Saens' Phaeton and Jeunesse d'Hercule and Chausson's Vivienne. It seems to me that the entire realm of tone poems is being pushed out of concert halls, we are left with the consolation of recordings. The recordings of Dervaux of the Saint-Saens four tone poems remains the finest, in my opinion, particularly the splendid Phaeton.

[chill319]

In my opinion -- humble only on Thursdays -- two unsung composers whose tone poems are works for the ages are Suk ("A Summer's Tale",  "Ripening", "Epilogue") and Vítězslav Novák ("In the Tatras", "Eternal Longing", "Lady Godiva", "De Profundis").

[minacciosa]

I enthusiastically agree with the assessment of Suk and Novak's work.

[LateRomantic75]

Indeed, they are, along with Tchaikovsky, Sibelius, and Karlowicz, among the greatest "tone poets" IMHO. (Never cared much for R. Strauss' music.)