Bliss & Rubbra PCs on Hyperion

[FBerwald]

A recent post reg. the next "Romantic Piano Concerto" (note the name Romantic an not atonal) - Vol 81 was crushed by an admin with an arrogant statement "Not for us". How dare you? Is there no room for discussion anymore or should we all bow down to the whims of some people here. I hope the other moderators are taking notice. This sort of policing is unacceptable! 

[Gareth Vaughan]

Well, I do respect Alan, but (with respect) I think he has made a wrong call here. After all, we have discussed Roger Coke's piano concertos (and some of his other music) which was written around the same time as the Bliss and Rubbra, and the idiom of both these concertos (the Bliss and Rubbra) is tonal and melodic. Indeed,  I venture to suggest that Korngold's PC is more dissonant than either. I don't want to open the floodgates or compromise this forum's stated remit, but the fact that the PCs are included in Hyperion's "Romantic" Piano Concerto series, surely makes them self-recommending for discussion here. I don't think that is an unreasonable position.

[Mark Thomas]

I've not looked at the forum since this morning for various reasons, so excuse my ignorance of this issue until now. That said, I've discussed both your comments with Alan, who is himself unwell, and I will consider what to do. However, I can't do so straight away and so, rather than lock this thread, I ask yourselves and anyone else wanting to add to this thread to refrain from doing so until later today when I've had chance to listen to both the Bliss and the Rubbra works (which I don't know) and come to some conclusion, which I'll post here. Thanks.

[Mark Thomas]

I've now had the opportunity to listen to the Rubbra and Bliss concertos and to think about this issue. The Bliss seems to me to be borderline as regards our guidelines, much as the Coke concertos Gareth mentions are, the Rubbra clearly less so IMHO. However, Hyperion in their wisdom (and I think very questionably, but we'll let that pass) have included the two works in their Romantic Piano Concerto series, which is normally avidly discussed here, so on that basis, and having discussed things with Alan, I'm content to let discussion on this release and these two works carry on.

That said, I do want to remind everyone that this applies just to these two works and in particular not to Rubbra's music generally. This forum's usp is "music from the romantic era" and I will resist any attempt to revert to the situation a few years ago where this distinction became so fudged by continual stretching of that yardstick that it became meaningless. That, as many members will remember, resulted in a very painful episode when we had no choice but to re-focus the forum. The price of avoiding a repetition of that is eternal vigilance - something which Alan quite rightly practised earlier today.

One final word, and then I'll let discussion on this CD carry on. FBerwald asks "How dare you?". Well, although this is a members-based forum, someone has to pay for the domain, the web space, the server, maintain the software and so on. That someone is me. I invited Alan and later semloh to join me as moderators. We do this quite literally thankless job as best we can, with as light a touch as possible, given that we do have a clear remit and we try to keep discussion within it. Other forums are free-for-alls, and I think they're the worse for it, so whilst I'm associated with UC, moderation will continue and I'm not going to enter into any more debate about it.

[MartinH]

So Hyperion includes Bliss and Rubbra in the series, yet even after 81 releases there's no Raff in sight. Talk about injustice!

[FBerwald]

I asked "the question" because of the moderator shutdown a topic without any discussion -  and you have yourself agreed that this particular release of the RPC falls within the range of our forum however borderline.  I agree that Moderation is largely a thankless job and most of us try to keep the discussions within the remit of the forum, my only issue is that wasn't (isn't) any  "discussion".

[FBerwald]

@MartinH i think (and someone here pointed out to me years ago) Hyperion is biased against Raff so it wasn't going to happen anyway.

[Mark Thomas]

I have tried several times to interest Hyperion in including Raff in the RPC series, Martin, but with no success. The last failed attempt provoked Tra Nguyen's Grand Piano release of the Piano Concerto as an alternative.

[Alan Howe]

May I also point out one important protocol of ours:

Please do not post about composers or compositions which clearly fall outside our definition of "romantic". Your post will not be approved. If you are in any doubt, and in any event if the music was written after 1918, please email or PM a moderator before posting.

So, please abide by our guidelines.

Secondly, music that is tonal and melodic isn't necessarily romantic. I am sure we can all think of music that can be so characterised, but which wouldn't be discussed here.

Anyway, I trust that the compromise that Mark and I have come up with will prove satisfatory.

[kLAMI]

As an aside, surely we must consider Arnold Bax a romantic composer in every way! The  Bliss, more than most of his work, was certainly written in the grand Lisztian romantic style. Give it an honest listen. Ignore the 1939 date.
Now, "Things to Come" and "Adam Zero", not so much!

[eschiss1]

(Do I hope they're considering Kaun's concerti or something like that for no.82? Well, yes.)

[Revilod]

The Bliss piano concerto is a good piece but there are other fine modern recordings. It's a big showpiece concerto, certainly Romantic in spirit. Rubbra's concerto is one of his best works and has been crying out for a new recording for years. It's a strangely haunting piece. I know it from Malcolm Binns's fine, though rather poorly recorded, performance. It's not "Romantic", though.

Of course calling music "Romantic" sells records.  Many issues in the RPC series are of works which are not really "Romantic". I came across a set of discs the other day called "Romantic Harp Concertos"...all of which were written by composers from the Classical era. The excuse can always be that they are "romantic" with a small "r" and that's a subjective judgement.

[Alan Howe]

Clearly, dates are of more important consideration than idiom or artistic credo with bias to the 19th C. Korngold after 1918, Bantock after 1918 are out of the picture, even Saint-Saens lovely oboe, clarinet and bassoon sonatas from 1921. Hmmm...

This is simply untrue. No-one's going to argue about the suitability of Bantock or Saint-Saëns. All we ask is that  where there is possible doubt, the moderators should be consulted first.

Now, let's turn our attention to the CD in question (which isn't released here in the UK until June 26th).

[Gareth Vaughan]

Do I hope they're considering Kaun's concerti or something like that for no.82? Well, yes.

Do you know something we don't, Eric? Kaun's concerti would certainly be a nice addition to the series. BUT I am getting off topic when we have only just begun on the topic. Apologies. We might start another thread on Hugo Kaun.

[eschiss1]

no! no! just an expanded "return to base with something interesting" edit: it's to be Gablenz/Paderewski - good, good...