Dotzauer, Justus Johann Friedrich (1783–1860)

[MG_ASE]

This is both interesting and disconcerting.
I will write to Mr Schuberth to see if he is aware of this.

Could you kindly share the name of the source of this? Were these letters between Julius S. and Raff? Or AMZ (or similar) articles? Or something else?

[Mark Thomas]

I'll check the sources and get back to you.

[EarlyRomantic]

  I don't mean to veer from the specific direction this topic has taken, but, since it began, I've had the same pressing question: Is anyone else surprised, even disappointed, that not even 1 of Dotzauers 9 Cello Concertos has been revived or recorded? This thread also enticed me to relisten to the fine Toccata Classics release of his Chamber Works. To me, his music has genuine elegance and substance. I really like it, and I would love to hear more. To that end, would anyone here be interested enough to investigate the state of that corner of his repertoire? It would be exciting if that activity would stimulate more interest in his composition. Of course, if this post needs to be separated , that is fine.

[Mark Thomas]

No, it's a good point, and my fault for allowing the topic to "veer from the soecific direction", as you so rightly put it.

[eschiss1]

I hope the Toccata Classics release had a "vol.1" attached; he wrote quite a few string quartets (usually, from what little I know, brilliant quartets with cello leading rather than first violin) and other works, and I am intrigued by what I've seen of them from scores and parts at IMSLP. Definitely an under-recorded composer generally.

[MG_ASE]

I don't mean to veer from the specific direction this topic has taken, but, since it began, I've had the same pressing question: Is anyone else surprised, even disappointed, that not even 1 of Dotzauers 9 Cello Concertos has been revived or recorded? This thread also enticed me to relisten to the fine Toccata Classics release of his Chamber Works. To me, his music has genuine elegance and substance. I really like it, and I would love to hear more. To that end, would anyone here be interested enough to investigate the state of that corner of his repertoire? It would be exciting if that activity would stimulate more interest in his composition. Of course, if this post needs to be separated , that is fine.

As someone who made his goal to republish the Opera Omnia of Dotzauer, I am certainly disappointed, especially when his concert pieces are so well written. To be 100% fair, his developments and codas often lack inspiration (but who among second-rate composers truly has a Beethoven-level one?!), but his thematic ideas and his techniques were absolutely flawless. A counterpoint and canonic expert once told me how impressed he was with Dotzauer's contrapuntal technique.
Concerning recordings, it would be perhaps better to start a new thread about recordings of Dotzauer's music, which I will do after I complete this biographical thread. The Toccata Classics you mentioned is probably the one containing 2 of the 3 flute quartets and the only oboe quartet, right? Publisher 2018 and played by Ensemble Pyramide. His most recorded piece must be the Pot-pourri for Guitar and Cello, Op. 21, and there are several other recordings of single titles on Apple Music Classical at least. I would certainly be interested in investigating this more because this could also help me decide what to publish first.
For the concertos, there is a single, big problem: money! First, you need to find a soloist who wants to invest into learning a new, quite challenging piece. Second, you need to find an impresario willing to schedule it and to risk a date where people may not buy tickets, let alone CDs! So, unless a foundation supports this kind of work, or one manages to befriend someone from the commissions who organise International Competitions—see Kraft's concerto and the upcoming Queen Elizabeth competition—, I see it very unlikely to ever succeed.
For every edition I've published there is an associated video on YouTube, played by the computer with little editing to slightly humanise it. Here is a basic list of what is available in chamber music:
12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 58:

24 Exercises for Two Cellos Op 159:

12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 52:

12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 156 (containing National Airs & Fugues):

12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 63:

Aria Russa with 20 Variations for 2 cellos:

Two String Quartets op 12 (the first two he wrote out of 24-25):

Pot-pourri for Cello and Guitar Op 21:

6 Waltzes for Piano Four-hands, Op 17:

Trio for Piano, Violin, and Violoncello, Op. 180 (dedicated to his son Bernhard, a virtuoso pianist and himself a composer about whom very little can be found because search engines only find his father!). I think this is a masterpiece!
First movement:

Second movement:

Third movement:

Fourth movement:

Three Easy Sonatas for Two Cellos, Op. 104:

Six Songs for Voice and Guitar, Op. 18:

Let me know what you think of this!

[MG_ASE]

I hope the Toccata Classics release had a "vol.1" attached; he wrote quite a few string quartets (usually, from what little I know, brilliant quartets with cello leading rather than first violin) and other works, and I am intrigued by what I've seen of them from scores and parts at IMSLP. Definitely an under-recorded composer generally.

Judging from the number of purchases of the first edition of string quartets I have gotten in the last month alone, I would not be surprised if at least one recording would surface in the next 12 months. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[eschiss1]

"who among second-rate composers truly has a Beethoven-level one?"

Wilhelm Stenhammar. -Quite- a few times. Next question?

[MG_ASE]

I see that Stenhammar was born after Dotzauer died.
I would not compare composers so far from each other. Dotzauer didn't have the chance to absorb too much Beethoven before his more mature compositions, while Stenhammar (and others) had everything available from Day 1.

[Ilja]

But arguably, too much. Dotzauer's world was much a simpler one than Stenhammar's, in which numerous influences vied for priority. 

[eschiss1]

If you want to reframe your question, best to do so before, not after receiving an answer...

[MG_ASE]

If you want to reframe your question, best to do so before, not after receiving an answer...

I do not understand the reason behind this hostile tone, frankly.
We are not here to defend any specific composer or to frame them as better/worse than any other. Rather, we should provide historically proven facts so that these people are not forgotten. At least, that is why I am here. I am not going to enter into any feud.

I'll check the sources and get back to you.

I have heard back from Mr Schuberth who mentioned having been in touch with you on the topic of Raff's supposed arrangements. From the sources, the quick picture you painted above of Julius & Carl E. Schuberth being little more than thieves of Raff's music seems to be inaccurate. The story is a complex and nuanced one and this is neither a topic about Schuberth (either the composer/cellist or the publishing house) nor about Raff.
The fact that after you mentioned this @eschiss1 immediately went to IMSLP to add unverified info on C. Schuberth's page is unhelpful—if not potentially damaging. Writing "possibly arranged by" would have been more sensible. I kindly request that this is corrected, unless you want to add specific sources of your claim to the IMSLP page.

[eschiss1]

My statement was not hostile, and stands.

As to the rest: To quote raff.org (quoting "The Music of Joachim
Raff: An Illustrated Catalogue by Mark Thomas, Edition Nordstern, 2021."):
"Souvenirs de Henselt. Romance et Nocturne (La Fontaine) [Memories of Henselt. Romance and Nocturne (The Fountain)] WoO.9D (1849).
Published: 1855, Schuberth, as the work of the publisher's brother Carl Schuberth. Arrangement of Henselt's original piano pieces at the request of the publisher. Also arranged for violin & piano."
Nothing was said about thievery. Composers used pseudonyms all the time, even pseudonyms that belonged to living other people. However, I will remove it tentatively. (I am assuming you have chosen - on principle?, like some other people on this site, not to create an account on IMSLP, or you could remove them yourself.)

[Mark Thomas]

I'll check the sources and get back to you.

I have heard back from Mr Schuberth who mentioned having been in touch with you on the topic of Raff's supposed arrangements. From the sources, the quick picture you painted above of Julius & Carl E. Schuberth being little more than thieves of Raff's music seems to be inaccurate. The story is a complex and nuanced one and this is neither a topic about Schuberth (either the composer/cellist or the publishing house) nor about Raff.
The fact that after you mentioned this @eschiss1 immediately went to IMSLP to add unverified info on C. Schuberth's page is unhelpful—if not potentially damaging. Writing "possibly arranged by" would have been more sensible. I kindly request that this is corrected, unless you want to add specific sources of your claim to the IMSLP page.

Frankly, you need to moderate your language and be more respectful to your fellow members. Eric has spoken for himself. In my case I made it clear that I was writing from memory and suggested that you wait for my return so that I could check my sources. You replied that you would "wait patiently" but you haven't done that. Suggesting that I implied that Julius and Carl Schuberth were "little more than thieves" is absolutely ridiculous hyperbole, I did no such thing and had you waited patiently I would have explained to you the circumstances under which Raff's arrangements were published as by Carl Schuberth. Now that I'm back home, I will get back to you in my own good time, and suggest that you focus on Dotzauer in the meantime

[MG_ASE]

Dear all,
I believe things took a completely wrong turn here, mainly between posts #6-#9 and #22+.
I apologise if my (non-native) English offended you, Mark. Please accept that this was never my intention. I misread the tone of your initial post (#7) as just a desire to accuse Carl & Julius Schuberth of dishonest practices, which I am glad you clarified neither being the case nor being your intention.

It was never my intention to lack in respect towards other people and if you can point out specific parts of my posts where this is evident, I will gladly make amend for that. Please also understand that I felt attacked and I reacted in defence.
All I wanted to do was to write about Dotzauer and I would have kept doing so if this post had not been hijacked in another direction. I am sure a separate post about the relationship between Carl Schuberth & Joachim Raff would have been more appropriate (and can still be useful, I think).

At the same time, I found Eric's reply hostile in tone, and I would have appreciated an apology as well. His reply keeps trying to be provocative and I can do nothing else than avoid falling in the reaction trap once again.

Thank you everyone for your understanding and, again, my apologies to those who felt offended by my words.
I wish you understood how I felt as well, but perhaps that is too much.
As you suggested, back to Dotzauer.