Paul Büttner: Symphonies 3 and 4

[Tapiola]

Available from April 3rd on:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9838371--buttner-symphonies-nos-3-4

Wonderful news! This will be one of the most interesting releases of the next year. The performance of the 4th is longer than the one on Sterling, so it must be an original version of sorts.

[eschiss1]

As one of the couplings on the Sterling disc was cut, perhaps the 4th was as well. The 4th is unpublished so it's hard to tell...
That said, agreed

[Ilja]

From my involvement with Sterling I seem to remember that the Pflüger recording was uncut (but it's been a while). The difference is mainly in the scherzo, where Pflüger takes 6:32 and Ward apparently needs 10:41. That's a pretty hefty difference, but we'll have to wait until April to get an explanation, I guess.

[eschiss1]

On the other hand, this recording seems, from the tempi mentioned at Presto, to be faster by a little than the YouTube-uploaded recording of the -third- symphony in 2 of the 3 movements, and about a minute faster in all (unless there's applause in the video- I forget.)

[Ilja]

There is no applause, and a minute's difference in a 35-minute work really isn't all that much. It's interesting that Capriccio should release this, since the 2nd Symphony was recently released by CPO, who tend to record a composer's complete complement of symphonies. So I wouldn't rule out that we'll see another recording of the same symphonies from them in the coming years.

[Holger]

It's less an issue of cuts but rather of retouchings e.g. with respect to the orchestration. Please read Christoph Schlüren's MPH preface for some details (at the end of his text):
https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1694.html
and Tobias Bröker's explanations on his typesetting of Büttner's original score:
https://www.tobias-broeker.de/newpageb5193fd1
In other words, there is definitely room for substantial differences. Of course, I do not know about the background (and the version used) of the Ward recording myself either.

[tuatara442442]

This has been released yesterday.

[Ilja]

It's less an issue of cuts but rather of retouchings e.g. with respect to the orchestration. Please read Christoph Schlüren's MPH preface for some details (at the end of his text):
https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1694.html
and Tobias Bröker's explanations on his typesetting of Büttner's original score:
https://www.tobias-broeker.de/newpageb5193fd1
In other words, there is definitely room for substantial differences. Of course, I do not know about the background (and the version used) of the Ward recording myself either.

Now that the recording is out, it's clear that difference in length is definitely due at least in part to a substantial amount of music either cut in the Pflüger recording or added in the Ward in the Scherzo (a section of a bout a minute from 5:33 onwards in the Ward recording, plus the repetition of the section at 6:48 about two minutes further in).

Having now spent time with both versions, however, I'm afraid I still prefer the Pflüger (with the same orchestra, albeit decades earlier) in spite of its deficiencies. It feels as though it's played with greater commitment, and just feels more exciting than Ward's version.

On to the Third!

[Mark Thomas]

On the other hand, I've just played Ward's Third and found it really a rather exciting and enjoyable listen. Mind you, I didn't know the symphony at all and wasn't sure what to expect.

[eschiss1]

I haven't heard Ward's version -yet- but I've listened to the YouTube version (which I can't find now!) back when I had the MPH score on loan from the library, and I agree

[Ilja]

On the other hand, I've just played Ward's Third and found it really a rather exciting and enjoyable listen. Mind you, I didn't know the symphony at all and wasn't sure what to expect.

The D flat major symphony (1915) is arguably Büttner's most successful orchestral work in terms of public acclaim, and you can understand why: it's dramatic, bold and well-constructed. It's also a work that makes clear how describing him merely as a "Brucknerian" doesn't really do justice to Büttner's style (the same can be said of his contemporary one city over, Richard Wetz); while there are Brucknerian influences, there's also more than a little of Brahms and (particularly) Richard Strauss in the background. The mix, and also the architecture of the music, however, is entirely Büttner's own.

The archival Rögner recording of the work (with the Leipzig RSO) once on YouTube didn't allow for a pleasurable listening experience, which made it difficult to really get a grasp on the piece. Ward's performance with the Berliners is thankfully very good and truly lets the piece shine. Overall, I think it's a stronger piece than the Fourth, not least because it succeeds very well in retaining tension throughout where its more ambitious successor also contains some weaker moments. This pair somehow makes me think of Kaun's 2nd and 3rd symphonies, where the latter work is also a not entirely successful attempt to expand on the argument made in the former.

It makes me curious to see how cpo's Büttner cycle is going to develop.