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Messages - ncouton

#1
Composers & Music / Re: Hans Rott - novel
Sunday 27 November 2016, 20:44
Yes but superficially, like quotes or homages as I wrote earlier in this topic. 
#2
Composers & Music / Re: Hans Rott - novel
Saturday 26 November 2016, 19:17
That Mahler already found, and completely, his style and manners while Rott was still looking for his own way between Bruckner and Brahms... 
#3
Composers & Music / Re: Hans Rott - novel
Saturday 26 November 2016, 16:18
Listening right now to Rott"s Symphony, I would find more natural, or more fair, to compare, in fine, this symphony written in 1878-80 with Mahler's Klagende Lied (written in 1879-80).
#4
Composers & Music / Re: Hans Rott - novel
Saturday 29 October 2016, 09:10
Well, it sounds obvious to me... Just listen and compare:

Bruckner 4th, Trio of the Scherzo
https://youtu.be/7S6MsieXCp4?t=4m30s

Mahler, Scherzo
https://youtu.be/8ZGra5BL6-k?t=49s

Beethoven, Violin Sonata n°10, Trio
https://youtu.be/hca8kQjB6no?t=19m

Mahler, Scherzo, first Trio
https://youtu.be/8ZGra5BL6-k?t=1m51s

Schumann, end of Dichterliebe n°9
https://youtu.be/L-Nkm8cBLgE?t=11m16s

Mahler, end of the Scherzo
https://youtu.be/8ZGra5BL6-k?t=10m13s

Moreover, it fits very well with the parodic mood of the original Lied (St. Anthony Preaches to the Fishes).

By the way, there is no surprise that Berio chose this very movement as a basis to create his collage masterpiece: Berio quotes Ravel, Debussy, Boulez, himself, Stockhausen... and Mahler quoting himself quoting Bruckner, Beethoven, Schumann... Rott... and others??
#5
Composers & Music / Re: Hans Rott - novel
Friday 28 October 2016, 21:01
Concerning the so-called "plagiarism" of Rott's theme in Mahler's 2nd, I have another opinion.

So I'd like to point out this fact:
in this movement Mahler quoted, but transforming them, many themes from different composers:
- the Trio of the Scherzo from  Bruckner's Fourth symphony
- the Trio of the Scherzo from Beethoven's 10th Violin Sonata
- the end of the ninth lied from Dichterliebe by Schumann

to this list one can add... the theme from the Scherzo of Rott's Symphony.

That would not be a plagiarism but a quotation.  ;)
#6
Composers & Music / Re: Is "Turandot" a verismo opera?
Monday 29 August 2016, 21:58
Turandot? Verismo??? Come on...  ???
#7
Well, when "conductors ... really spend time on balance and voicing", in a way they arrange themselves with the score... and waste their time to obtain what they could more easily get by crossing useless doublings, for example.  ::)
#8
"A careful, skilled conductor can make them work - Gardiner, Barenboim, Bernstein are three."

Martin, Barenboim actually used many "retouches" in his two recordings! And not discrete ones!!!  ???
#10
Yes, the "Symphonie Gothique" is more a suite than a symphony, but the 3rd movement is especially beautiful and moving.
#11
Since I consider I know very well these two symphonies (I originated the project), I can tell you the music is very very interesting. Don't miss this disc!
#12
Listening and reading the score again, about 3 years after the last time, maybe I've been a bit harsh: there are good ideas, but for sure the lack of technical security reveals that Joncières was just a good amateur.
#13
Totally different. Really not the same level, in terms of inspiration, technical abilities, construction, orchestration. Really nothing to do.
#14
Don't worry, this symphony is not that fascinating...  :-X
#15
I was involved in a project of recording this symphony, but the PBZ finally never followed up. That was disappointing.