Sounds interesting:
http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=1037&displayMenu=Naxos_News&type=2 (http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=1037&displayMenu=Naxos_News&type=2)
Very nice. It will be interesting to compare these with the Mehta/NYP recordings of the symphonies and As You Like It, but there has never been a first-rate Tempest and , if I remember, only the Moorish Dance from Azara has been set down before. As Mehta was famously dismissive of the symphonies during the rehearsals, perhaps the results will show more conviction.
The business about "first American symphony" probably has Bristow turning in his grave. Apparently this American conductor knows nothing of the history of music in her own country.
David
and Naxos has recorded some of those earlier symphonies too, I think. Then again, the accuracy of Naxos' program notes (they have, despite repeated attempts to correct them, repeated mistakes about Alkan and Delaborde - etc.) is about on a level with the syntax of the English of those of cpo (and yet even I have used them as a reference. For some reason. :( )
The first American symphony to sound like Brahms? :D
Actually, I don't much like Brahms's first three but I do like Paine's 1st. I never bought the 2nd because I didn't like that one much, apparently.
Re. the accuracy of Naxos notes - off-topic, but I can't resist.
At the end of the notes accompanying the new Naxos release of Eduard Franck's Op. 22 Piano Trio (a fine work, wonderfully played.....so no high-minded sniffing at Franck, please!) we get:
"It is gratifying to rediscover and reassess a composer who exemplified high art and high ideals when German Romanticism was at its zenith. As Shakespeare so aptly noted, 'The earth has music for those who listen'."
First sentence: a very bland and rather empty sentence. Second sentence: Shakespeare certainly did not write this. But then I'm now in receipt of a rather generous pension for having spent close on 40 years telling people to check their sources.
OK, red pen now tucked away and I shall henceforth behave myself.
'Tis a sad commentary on the state of all things orchestral in the US that Falletta is using the Ulster Orchestra to record this.
incidentally the full scores of the 2 symphonies, and the parts to the first symphony, are available for free download @ IMSLP (from Sibley Library, other sources.)
How's Krueger's 1959 recording of the 1st (as a performance, I mean, not as a recording?) Not sure if it's been reissued on CD- didn't know it existed until now, but that's my own ignorance.
There is one "first" that Paine does lay claim to, i gather- his 2nd was the first American symphony to be published in full score (by a publisher in the US (Arthur Schmidt, in a co-production with Cranz, 1880), that sentence may have to be finished? since I think Breitkopf, Cranz or some other publishers may have done the honor for one or more earlier symphonies- well, "firsts" are iffy, chancy affairs...)
(No, not the 1st- Paine's 1st wasn't published in full score until 1908, two years after Paine's death.)
What about Johann Friedrich Peter? And, despite his name, yes, he was born in what would become the USA. And seeing as he died in 1813, I'm not sure how Paine could beat that, whether Peter's Symphony in G was the first or not. I can't find any available recording of it, but it has been recorded at least twice. I wonder if enough people write to Naxos about this... surely, they can't leave proven false information in future reprints... right?
In any case, I think Paine's Symphony #1 is absolutely fantastic, whether it was the first symphony composed in the Americas or the 500th. I don't see how more recordings and exposure can be a bad thing, but the version with Zubin Mehta conducting the New York Philharmonic might be kind of tough to beat. That first movement especially was executed in superb fashion. I'm interested to hear how people think this new one compares, but since I don't tend to buy the same piece more than once unless I've got a good reason, those reviews will have to be over-the-top with praise!
to correct a mistake I made, Falletta's claim that Paine's first symphony was the first American symphony appears in an interview of hers on the Naxos website as her opinion, not in Naxos program notes, I think. (... not yet anyway.) The CD is not yet released.
I have a notion that the quotes around the word "American" (I think?...) may be the point, too (as in, earlier symphonies were written here, but were too European to count.) In that case, I'm not sure what distinguishes Paine's first in this regard- Ives' 2nd maybe, or some earlier works. (Or if one wants an "American" symphony so badly, take Dvorak's 9th... I think Walter Piston or Roger Sessions had some choice words on Nationalism in Music as manifested here but- yes. Different thread.)
I've heard works by Peter though not yet his symphony; I have heard earlier symphonies by composers who took up residence in America, like Heinrich's programmatic symphony, and I think something by one of the Bach descendents that may have been written here - hrm, we may have still been colonies at that point, actually (need to check)- the only surviving copies of his symphonies were found in the US, it seems... anyway. Sorry.
The release of Symphony No.1 has now been announced:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/paine-john-knowles-symphony-1-ulster-orchestra-joann-falletta-naxos.html (http://www.mdt.co.uk/paine-john-knowles-symphony-1-ulster-orchestra-joann-falletta-naxos.html)
Yet another to go on the 'must buy' list! I cannot resist the pleasure of Paine. ::)
Steady on, Colin!
I'm not a huge fan of Paine, and it's some time since I played the old Zubin Mehta / NY Philharmonic recording of the Symphony and As You Like It, but I really can't imagine more persuasive performances than we are treated to on this CD. The Symphony still betrays its debt to Beethoven in every bar, but it's not a bad piece. The two shorter works are vigorous, melodic and well orchestrated in a rather anonymous, but attractive, Germanic idiom. The Tempest is a bit self-indulgently long, I think, but it's very colourfully done, so interest doesn't flag too much. Not works which I shall return to time and again, but certainly occasionally, and with pleasure.
Tom writes:
Just got a copy of the new Naxos American Classics release of this new composer to me. His first symphony is a pleasant listen and could easily remind you of Beethoven. The jury is still out on "As You Like It" and "Tempest" Falletta seems to be pioneering some new composers such as Tyberg.
Tom
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.559747 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.559747)
I know you changed the topic slightly Alan but it is a bit misleading because there is only a single CD on the new Naxos release.
Quote from: TerraEpon on Monday 17 December 2012, 18:57
The first American symphony to sound like Brahms? :D
Actually, I don't much like Brahms's first three but I do like Paine's 1st. I never bought the 2nd because I didn't like that one much, apparently.
Much more like Beethoven
Tom
Quote from: mbhaub on Tuesday 18 December 2012, 01:56
'Tis a sad commentary on the state of all things orchestral in the US that Falletta is using the Ulster Orchestra to record this.
Perhaps there is an agreement in her contract?
Tom
Hi Tom,
It just doesn't make sense for there to be two threads.
BTW I'm sure you are right: Paine's model in his 1st Symphony is definitely Beethoven.
Tom: look at the link at the top in the thread (news article (http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=1037&displayMenu=Naxos_News&type=2). A second CD is already announced. Quizzical quiddity solved, I should think.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 12 September 2013, 22:26
Hi Tom,
It just doesn't make sense for there to be two threads.
BTW I'm sure you are right: Paine's model in his 1st Symphony is definitely Beethoven.
I agree that there shouldn't be two threads and as I think about it we're pretty savvy about these things. My thought process was that as an administrator you could change the subject title.
Tom
I'm sorry, but this is a pretty mediocre issue. The music is so obviously warmed-over Beethoven - and I don't much care for the underpowered string-playing of the Ulster Orchestra either. Miss Falletta should have used her Buffalo Orchestra, I feel. An opportunity missed.
It doesn't make sense from the standpoint that this was released under the umbrella of the American Classics series. I just feel that there is something that we don't know.
Tom
Maybe Alan is broadly right - though I'd be a little more genteel than that "pretty mediocre". On a quick hearing, the two Shakespeare pieces are better. But given Naxos prices I don't regret buying it (though I suspect it will gather dust).
I wouldn't be too hard on the Ulster Orchestra - after all, they've done some very fine things. I suspect (and it is only a guess) that the problem here is both very limited rehearsal time and the orchestra's unfamiliarity with Paine. Maybe the Buffalo Orchestra would have offered a more compelling account. Yep, Naxos prices are gloriously affordable - but there's no point at all in serving up a recording unless you get it right. (That's why Hyperion, for example, never give us a dud).
Nevertheless, it's an opportunity missed. After all, Mehta had the NYPO...
Well, nobody that's anybody here wants to do American Composers. How sad.....
J
FWIW I for one haven't heard the new CDs.
(Didn't we have something by Paine in the uploads ("downloads"?) section at one point, a choral work? Will have to check... ah. "The Tempest" symphonic-poem, and "The Nativity". I think I only downloaded the latter; will have to see if the former is still there.) He also wrote a few chamber works that have been recently published I think, a violin sonata and a piano trio, unless I am thinking of someone else... and New World released a disc of some piano works and another with his Mass? Anyhow, more to the assessment of his muse than comparisons of recordings of just the 2 symphonies and a couple of other orchestral works (though a person might end up with a positive or a negative opinion all the same of course.)
I think that the Buffalo plate is full right now as they released a Gershwin, Ellington, and Tyberg this year already. I've hear that there will be another Tyberg too.
Tom
I played on a recording of Paine's oratorio St. Peter. While I'm glad to have composers like him receive some attention and an occasional recordings, I can't say I'm very enthusiastic about his music.
Hmmm - I'd like to hear that, because so far I've never heard anything by Paine that I didn't like.
Look here for the recording.
http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm2027.htm (http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm2027.htm)
There is a score available at IMSLP.
Quote from: minacciosa on Sunday 20 October 2013, 05:13
Look here for the recording.
http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm2027.htm (http://www.gmrecordings.com/gm2027.htm)
There is a score available at IMSLP.
Thanks for that. Gosh, there's a lot of unusual music in the GM catalogue. I need to win the lottery! ;D
Symphony No.2 has now been announced:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/paine-orchestral-works-vol-2-joann-falletta-naxos-american-classics.html (http://www.mdt.co.uk/paine-orchestral-works-vol-2-joann-falletta-naxos-american-classics.html)
For me the stand out pieces on the latest CD are the two shorter orchestral works: the Prelude to Oedipus Tyrannus and Poseidon & Amphitrite. For all that the Symphony, familiar from Mehta's old recording for New World Records, is very well crafted and receives an excellent performance from Falletta and the Ulster Orchestra, it remains a peculiarly anonymous, earth-bound work with more than a whiff of academic exercise about it. The two other works, on the contrary, have plenty of fire and passion and that's particularly true of Poseidon & Amphitrite, which is new to me. It's Paine's last orchestral work and in it he seems to have found his own individual voice: vibrant, varied and colourful orchestral textures clothing memorable melodic material, all making for a very enjoyable 12 minutes, and amply compensating for the occasional tedium of the 48 minute long Symphony.
Symphony No.2 certainly reveals a more original composer than did Symphony No.1, with Paine definitely moving in a more Lisztian direction and away from the obviously Beethoven-inspired idiom of the earlier work. I like the nicely resonant recording (a great improvement on the very dead acoustic afforded to Mehta) and Falletta seems to keep the whole thing going, which is a good thing with this rather discursive music. Not a great work, but an uncommonly interesting one.
I got mine from Naxos but there is only one CD or is the title of the thread referring to both volumes? Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.
Tom :)
The thread refers to both CDs because vol.2 was announced when vol.1 came out.
thanks for confirming my suspicions
Tom :)
I just have not been able to produce any enthusiasm for Paine, despite my having played a chunk of it. For me, Paine was just the warm-up for much more interesting composers such as Hadley, Chadwick, Macdowell, Griffes, pretty much anyone who came later. I won''t be spending any money on these.
No, I can't say anything by Paine really enthuses me either. But he is interesting.
I find the two sets of variations for organ Op.3 to be completely irrisistable, especially the ones on the Austrian Hymn. The recording on the Hyperion Organ Fireworks Series was breathtaking.
Not listened to any symphonies yet.
Thal
The Mass in D and St. Peter are, imo, both remarkable pieces. Gunther Schuller's rush through St. Peter, preserved on CD, hardly does justice to this devout and deeply-felt piece. The aching chromaticism of numbers like "O God forsake me not" go for nothing.
I'm also a fan of the Spring Symphony, especially the last movement. Victor Fell Yellin used to say that Paine had taken the old triumphant chorale ending beloved of European composers and made it a real New England hymn tune...
And don't forget the delightful little piano fugue on the baseball song "Over the fence is out, boys."
David