Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: edurban on Friday 29 April 2016, 03:35

Title: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: edurban on Friday 29 April 2016, 03:35
Pianist Simon Callaghan, among other things a Coke specialist, goes into the studios July 19-22 this year with the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and Martyn Brabbins to make a concerto recording for Hyperion.  Can this be the much hoped-for disc of Coke 3, 4 and surviving movement from 5?  Best, David
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 29 April 2016, 07:32
Could be. His diary doesn't say...
http://simoncallaghan.com/diary/ (http://simoncallaghan.com/diary/)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 29 April 2016, 09:54
Simon tells me that it is.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 29 April 2016, 10:21
Oh, great! Thanks, Gareth.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: edurban on Friday 29 April 2016, 13:23
Duly corrected, Gareth, and thanks for the confirmation.

David
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 28 July 2016, 00:18
I can report that the recording sessions went extremely well, Martyn Brabbins declaring that Simon Callaghan was one of the best prepared pianist he had worked with. Everyone very pleased. Disk scheduled for release next summer, but may be earlier in 2017 if the editing goes very smoothly. The disk will be part of the RPC series.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 28 July 2016, 00:24
Wowee! Lovely!
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: edurban on Thursday 28 July 2016, 07:27
Very exciting!  Thanks for helping to make this possible, Gareth.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 28 July 2016, 09:50
That's excellent, Gareth. Congratulations.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Christopher on Thursday 28 July 2016, 12:44
Will definitely be buying this.  Many thanks Gareth!
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 28 July 2016, 13:55
Thanks for the plaudits, guys, but it was really Giles Enders and Simon who convinced Hyperion to record the disk. I just hope you like the music when you hear it.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 20 January 2017, 21:37
Incidentally, you can hear Simon and Raphael Wallfisch playing the very beautiful slow movt from Coke's 2nd Cello Sonata here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pip9Z_6zkos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pip9Z_6zkos)
Whether this presages a recording of both published sonatas, I do not know - but I have sent an email to Simon asking him.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 20 January 2017, 22:22
What lovely stuff. Thank you, Gareth.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 20 January 2017, 23:43
The pianist maintains another website https://rogersacheverellcoke.com/ (https://rogersacheverellcoke.com/) that may be relevant too.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 08 February 2017, 20:41
Simon has now posted the promotional video for the Coke concertos on You Tube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjbVE6H_m68 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjbVE6H_m68) - and very good it is too IMHO.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 08 February 2017, 22:42
How wonderful. Thank you very much, Gareth.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Christopher on Thursday 09 February 2017, 11:56
This is great, thank you! Has it been decided which month these will be released?
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 09 February 2017, 16:21
October, I think!
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: FBerwald on Thursday 09 February 2017, 16:43
From the Cover displayed on the youtube video this is clearly Vol. 73.

Wonder who's vol. 72 after the 71 Czerny.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Rob H on Friday 10 February 2017, 14:14
Hmm, I was wondering that...
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: kolaboy on Friday 10 February 2017, 22:43
Looking forward to this release particularly.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 10 May 2017, 12:00
From Simon Callaghan's website:

https://ncms.imgix.net/simon/LBe5vJKmmDh9aSR3Q?w=1920

...to be released on November 3rd.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: semloh on Wednesday 10 May 2017, 21:51
Excellent news!!
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 19 July 2017, 22:46
Here's the announcement at Hyperion's website:
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ym.asp?ym=2017_11 (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ym.asp?ym=2017_11)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: dmitterd on Monday 24 July 2017, 00:46
Volume 72 is Cipriani Potter's Piano Concertos Nos 2 and 4 - http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68151

Quote from: FBerwald on Thursday 09 February 2017, 16:43
From the Cover displayed on the youtube video this is clearly Vol. 73.

Wonder who's vol. 72 after the 71 Czerny.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 24 July 2017, 01:23
Yup, see this topic. (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6443.msg68518.html)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: FBerwald on Thursday 10 August 2017, 06:20
Release mentioned - 27 October 2017

(https://image.ibb.co/iOUZba/coke.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68173 (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68173)

The Romantic Piano Concerto, Vol. 73 - Roger Sacheverell Coke

Piano Concerto No 3 in E-flat Major, Op. 30      
Piano Concerto No 4 in C-sharp minor, Op. 38      
Piano Concerto No 5 in D minor, Op. 57


Simon Callaghan (piano), BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, Martyn Brabbins (conductor)


The exerpts sound very promising, especially No. 3. As the Composer himself withdrew PC No. 1 & 2 and we have 3, 4 and the existing part of No. 5, that leaves us with 6.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 10 August 2017, 09:14
No it doesn't unfortunately. The composer listed 6 as "unfinished" in his own published work list, and the MS is presumed lost as it is not amongst those deposited with Chesterfield Library nor amongst the music inherited by his nephew. The Hyperion disk gives us all the existing PCs by Coke.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 10 August 2017, 09:55
What a welcome prospect this CD is.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 10 August 2017, 11:04
Mouthwatering...
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: TerraEpon on Thursday 10 August 2017, 14:24
Having heard the upload posted here a couple months ago, I too am very much anticipating this one.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 14 October 2017, 13:46
The Hyperion/Coke CD is due for release at the end of this month. Here is the link: https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68173 (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68173)
I urge you to buy this really splendid disk. The music is remarkable (IMHO) and the performance and recording both outstanding.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: semloh on Sunday 15 October 2017, 12:51
Thanks, Gareth. Definitely another for the 'wants list'. :)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: giles.enders on Tuesday 07 November 2017, 11:01
There is no review in BBC music magazine and the November Gramophone has yet to come out.  Remarkably the Coke CD is now No3 in the classical music charts.  The recording is superb, I understand from someone who heard Coke play these works that Simon Callaghan has come very close to how they recall Coke played them.  As for the music itself, I like it but people must judge for themselves
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 16 November 2017, 07:18
I see that the disk is one of the "Recordings of the Month" on Music Web International this week.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 16 November 2017, 07:58
So it should be too. It's a real revelation, and especially the Fourth Concerto - a real window into Coke's tortured soul.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Revilod on Thursday 16 November 2017, 10:09
Jeremy Nicholas's review in the "Gramophone" is decidedly lukewarm and I wasn't particularly impressed either. The melodic material is not  really memorable and there's little in the way of development or counterpoint. This one has divided opinion, it seems, but I do think anyone expecting to hear a hitherto unknown concerto by Rachmaninoff is going to be disappointed. Taken on his own terms Coke may have more to offer. There are some interesting reviews on Amazon.co.uk.

By the way, has anyone else noticed that the slow movement of the Fourth Concerto quotes directly from the first movement of the Third?
The booklet does not mention this.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 16 November 2017, 12:55
There are certainly echoes of Rachmaninov in Coke, it would be more surprising if there weren't, but he is no imitator and it does both men a disservice to suggest that he is, as some reviews have hinted.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Revilod on Thursday 16 November 2017, 13:12
Yes. It is always unfair to compare one composer with another, especially when that"other" is as highly regarded as Rachmaninov. Perhaps Coke is to blame to some extent, though. He should have kept his admiration for Rachmaninov to himself!
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: FBerwald on Thursday 16 November 2017, 13:29
I haven't heard these concertos but what do you mean by Echoes of Rachmaninoff - Is it the style in general or harmonic progressions.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 16 November 2017, 13:35
I maintain that Coke has his own voice: he is not Rachmaninov, nor Scriabin,  nor Sibelius. And why should we expect him to be? Not surprisingly, he imbibed influences from all three of them. But I think he is distinctively "Coke", as I believe a study of his other scores will show.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 16 November 2017, 13:46
The problem here is the sort of 'lazy labelling' which seeks to define a lesser-known composer in terms of a better-known one. I suppose we've all done this in attempting to give an idea of a lesser-known composer's music, but at best it's merely an indicator - and at worst it's actually misleading. Coke is his own man - and that's how he should be assessed.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 16 November 2017, 14:02
see also Medtner (re Rachmaninov), etc.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 16 November 2017, 17:05
Quotesee also Medtner (re Rachmaninov), etc.

Actually, see almost anyone who wrote/writes PCs in a hyper-romantic style post-1900! The list is endless (let's not go there!)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 16 November 2017, 22:13
Medtner and Rachmaninov*, maybe, compared to some others of his works --- and I assume from the discussion Coke and Rachmaninov, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue - have as a rule more similarities of sound and approach than one's randomly selected pair of post/hyper-Romantic piano concerto do: so I'm not sure I agree actually.

*and actually I was thinking of Medtner works _aside_ from his piano concertos :), which aren't always the best argument for his individuality of "sound", structural/motivic/... approach (though the 3rd (Medtner) concerto is... anyway...)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 16 November 2017, 22:32
Try this old thread, Eric:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3621.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3621.0.html)
I wasn't suggesting that the comparisons are valid, merely that they are often made...
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 16 November 2017, 22:41
Ah. Yes.  And yes, we did have that discussion in that thread. (And probably "Rachmaninoffian" should not have been equated, the bar set so low, with "Rachmaninoff like moments" as by some there; one thinks perhaps there's more binding the 3 mature Rach piano concertos, 2 piano sonatas, Rhapsody, and a number of his other works than that even if it's not the easiest thing(s) to define. But yes, off Coke-concerto-topic. 

Wishing again that NML streamed Hyperion, Dutton and MDG (Hyperion, in this case) (because I'm a cheapskate, I guess...) but they don't- still, I will get to hear these concertos, legally and before long, I'm sure :) (I see NML does seem to have his piano preludes on SOMM and the Danacord CD with a work of his (from Husum). Making a note, no pun intended.)

Edit: i'm hoping that eventually my nearby University library will be on _this_ list once it starts filling up... --- http://www.worldcat.org/title/piano-concerto-no-3-op-30-piano-concerto-no-4-op-38-piano-concerto-no-5-op-57/oclc/1003242811 (http://www.worldcat.org/title/piano-concerto-no-3-op-30-piano-concerto-no-4-op-38-piano-concerto-no-5-op-57/oclc/1003242811) :)  That'll do it. (Or of course so would my local public library, which isn't on Worldcat.) (edit 9 months later: 17-odd universities on that list and I don't doubt others that Worldcat just doesn't mention. Not bad. My alma mater isn't but anyway. 17's pretty good...)
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: giles.enders on Monday 20 August 2018, 12:18
As a film enthusiast, liking films from the 1920's to the present day, what I heard in these concertos were, wisps, echos, half remembered fragments of film music particularly in the piano concertos 3 & 4. I recently asked Coke's niece if he had an interest in the cinema.  She said that when he wasn't composing his other love was the cinema, going as often as three times a week.  She also said that I was the only person to point this out.  I wonder if any one else has observed this?
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 20 August 2018, 13:04
Giles and I discussed this after the performance of the Elegiac Trio which I organised in London in June this year. I found the influence of film music almost stronger in the Trio than in the PCs, though clear enough in both. That said, I hadn't really put my finger on this influence in the PCs until Giles pointed it out to me, when it at once became obvious.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 20 August 2018, 17:35
Interesting. How does this influence manifest itself? Are there hints of any particular film music composers?
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: giles.enders on Tuesday 21 August 2018, 15:10
Both in half forgotten themes and also in orchestration, the latter is particularly noticeable in piano concerto 4.  It would take a very patient scholar to look at the films and relate the musical themes to his compositions.
Title: Re: R. Sacheverell Coke Concertos at last?
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 21 August 2018, 16:54
Is it more a feeling of reminiscence than actual quotation?