This is a really intriguing forthcoming release:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/ernst-rudorff-symphonie-nr-3-h-moll-op-50/hnum/4886665 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/ernst-rudorff-symphonie-nr-3-h-moll-op-50/hnum/4886665)
Now that's really exciting news, Alan. I have very poor quality radio recordings of the first two symphonies, which seem to be muscular works, but have never heard a note of the Third.
I have the Symphony in g, opus 40. Which one is that?
J
no.2, published in 1890 by Schlesinger.
His symphony in B-flat major, Op.31 was published in 1883 by Bote & Bock of Berlin. Worldcat lists "Symphonie No. 3 für grosses Orchester, op. 50" published by Simrock in 1910. The 3rd is in B minor and -well, see IMSLP (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.3,_Op.50_(Rudorff,_Ernst)) as extracted from Sibley Library. The opening- quickviewed using the "view" button @IMSLP - is promising enough, I think... it will be nice to associate that Allegro con brio string unison with a sound sample, soon.
I don't know that these're definitely his only symphonies, or that this is also the order of composition (but "no.2" and "no.3" are attached to the scores, not, as with some other composers, a posthumous accretion.)
From my earlier researches, Rudorff wrote three symphonies.
I was very curious about Rudorff's music after hearing the piano pieces recorded by John Kersey. For those of you curious about the Third Symphony (if you really can't wait to hear the actual excerpts on jpc.de), I (humbly) made a few months ago a little MIDI two-piano reduction of the first 16 bars of the first movement. Don't know if I can post it here without uploading it on an other website though...
It's up to you...
To give us some idea of Rudorff and his music, here's link to the MPH study score of his 2nd Symphony:
http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/vorworte/1343.html (http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/vorworte/1343.html)
Fascinatingly, the article concludes by saying:
<<This symphony is a worthwhile introduction to Rudorff's music, and to a repertoire of Austro-German Romantic symphonies that occur at the edge rather than the fringe of nineteenth-century symphonic writing. In this symphony, Rudorff emerges as a staunch representative of those in the European tradition who were prepared to imbue the symphonic language of the most prominent contemporary masters with a level of individuality that probed the boundaries of form to a new degree and even (despite Rudorff's possible disinclination to take Liszt and Wagner as models) paved the way for the reappraisal of tonality by such as Mahler, Berg and Schoenberg.>>
From jpc's website:
A photograph from around 1896 depicts the musical senate of the Royal Academy of the Arts in Berlin. Ten professors in distinguished academic attire are posing for the camera. It is a who's who of the contemporary German compositional scene including Max Bruch, Joseph Joachim, Heinrich von Herzogenberg, Friedrich Gernsheim, and ... Ernst Rudorff. Today, we regret to say, the last-mentioned composer is the most forgotten among them. Born in Berlin in 1840, Rudorff grew up in a well-to-do, culturally connected household. His mother was Ludwig Tieck's grandniece and a close friend of the Mendelssohn siblings, and the Brothers Grimm and Karl Friedrich Schinkel were friends of the family. Rudorff's later friend Philipp Spitta (also Heinrich von Herzogenberg's close friend) wrote as follows: »The artistic views of these minds were marked by the tendencies of the romantic school. These were the ideas with which Rudorff completely filled himself from his childhood on.« As a composer Rudorff remained a romanticist through and through – also in his love of nature. He believed that industrialization posed an increasing threat to nature and decided to take action. He became an important precursor of conservation practices by groups organized in societies. His former teacher Carl Reinecke wrote of his pupils Sullivan, Grieg, and Rudorff, »I regard Rudorff as the most important musician of the then triumvirate, even though his name is less famous than that of his two fellow students.«
A recording of the 3rd symphony is an excellent prospect.
Just a word on Rudorff... The entry in Grove concludes that: His fondness for detail resulted sometimes in a very convoluted melodic line, harmonic obscuration, abrupt transitions and chains of sound, and complicated rhythms.
This echoes the 1900 entry, a strange mixture of high praise and strong disparagement:
Rudorff's works are for the most part of great technical difficulty. This is principally because the composer, we will not say over-loads them with detail, but over-elaborates them. This has kept his works from being as well known as they deserve. But he is sure to make a name in the future ....
How far into the future, I wonder!
I'm even more intrigued...
Excellents releases of CPO!! Anyone know about other important works by Rudorff?
Offhand among major - or extended - works, I'm only aware offhand of an early string sextet (Op.5), serenade op.20 (the latter at IMSLP), but I may be mistaken...
hrm, from Worldcat, major-looking works besides the symphonies, serenade op.20 and string sextet include
"Otto der Schütz. Ouverture", Op.12 (manuscript instrumental parts at Danish Royal Library, I think; they also have the published score, Seitz/Ries&Erler)
"Ouvertüre zu Ludwig Tieck's Märchen Der blonde Ekbert für Orchester : Op. 8" (also at DKB);
"Variationen über ein eigenes Thema für Orchester : Op. 24" (also at DKB, also at Indiana University Library and at the Staats- und Universitätsbibliothek Hamburg Carl von Ossietzky)
Romance for violin and orchestral accompaniment, Op. 41
Romance for cello and orchestral accompaniment, Op. 7 (listed as Op.71 in one library catalog (Fleisher Collection, I think- Juilliard gets it right, though) which nicely combines the opus numbers of the violin and cello romances, doesn't it? But no, Op.7 for the cello romance, Op.41 for the violin, according to sources from the time of publication. (1870, 1897).
A serenade no.2 for orchestra in G, Op.21 (ded. to Philipp Spitta) (@ St Pancras, British Lib. & the Bayerisches Staatsbibliothek. Listed in the German National Library, so perhaps still sold.)
"Ballade : Introduction, Scherzo und Finale : Opus 15" for orchestra (also DKB...:) )
(ok, I don't enjoy quitting my browser by accident- who knew? saving...)
The terrific Fleisher Collection has a fair number of scores and parts of Rudorff works for interested performing groups &c, I see. The 2 serenades, all 3 symphonies, the overture Op.8, the 2 romances are there (not the Variations, the other overture or the Ballade, but can't have everything. :) )
Here's the Grove entry:
Orch and chbr: 3 syms., opp.31, 40, 50; 3 ovs., Der blonde Ekbert, op.8, Otto der Schütz, op.12, Romantische Ouvertüre, op.45; 2 serenades, opp.20, 21; Variations on an Original Theme, op.24; Ballade, Introduction, Scherzo and Finale, op. 15; Romance, vn, orch, op.41; Romance, vc, orch, op.7; Sextet, 3 vn, va, 2 vc, op.5; Intermezzo, orch, unpubd
Pf 4 hands: Variations, 2 pf, op.1; Klavierstücke op.4; Kinderwalzer op.38; Klavierstücke op.54
Pf solo: Fantasiestücke, op.10, Fantasie, op.14; 2 Konzertetüden, op.29, 3 Romanzen, op.48, Capriccio appassionato, op.49; Impromptu, op.51; Klavierstücke, op.52; Variazioni capricciose, op. 55; 2 Balladen, unpubd
Vocal: songs, duets and choral works, incl. Aufzug der Romanze (Tieck), solo vv, chorus, orch, op.18; 2 Gesänge, S, female vv, orch, op.19; Gesang an die Sterne (Rückert), 6vv, orch, op.26; Herbstlied, 6vv, orch, op.43; Ave Maria am Rhein, S, female vv, orch unpubd; 10 songs, female vv, pf, unpubd; 4 songs, v, pf, unpubd
(b Berlin, 18 Jan 1840; d Berlin, 31 Dec 1916). German conductor, composer, pianist and teacher. He grew up in an intellectual and artistic environment: his mother, Betty Pistor, had been a friend of Mendelssohn and a pupil of Zelter, while his father was a professor of law in Berlin and a pupil of Friedrich Carl von Savigny. His parents' house was frequented by representatives of the Romantic school, and Johann Friedrich Reichardt and Ludwig Tieck were among his ancestors. He studied piano and composition with Woldemar Bargiel (1850–57), violin with Louis Ries (1852–4) and piano for a short time with Clara Schumann in 1858, with whom from then on he shared a life-long friendship. He studied theology and history at the universities of Berlin and Leipzig (1859–60) and music at the conservatory in Leipzig (1859–61), mainly with Moscheles (piano) and Julius Rietz (composition) and then in private lessons with Reinecke and Hauptmann (1861–2).
He worked as conductor and assistant of Julius Stockhausen in Hamburg, then taught and conducted at the conservatory in Cologne (1865–9), where he founded a Bach society in 1867. On the invitation of Joachim he was made professor at the Berlin Hochschule für Musik (1869–1910), where, from 1882, he headed the piano and organ class. He succeeded Bruch as conductor of the Stern Choral Society (1880–90). He conducted many concerts with the Berlin PO and also in Lisbon in 1887, and was a member of the senate of the Royal Academy of the Arts. He was also a founder of the environmental protection movement.
Rudorff's style as a composer was based on that of Schumann, Mendelssohn, Chopin, and above all Weber. The influence of Schumann is particularly clear in his early piano works and songs, although he soon developed a personal style. In his orchestral works, early piano compositions and songs he uses traditional forms but incorporates moments of Romantic unpredictability. His late piano pieces, such as op.52, display more continuous thematic development. He rigorously rejected hollow virtuosity and superficial smoothness. His fondness for detail resulted sometimes in a very convoluted melodic line, harmonic obscuration, abrupt transitions and chains of sound, and complicated rhythms. Many pieces, such as the orchestral Variations on an Original Theme op.24, met with wide appreciation during his lifetime.
A distinguished editor, Rudorff was a member of the editorial committee of Denkmäler Deutscher Tonkunst. Among other works he edited the score of Weber's Euryanthe (1866), parts of the Breitkopf & Härtel collected editions of Mozart and Chopin, and the letters of Weber to Hinrich Lichtenstein (Berlin, 1900).
Thank dear friend for the research! It's interesting Rudorff's legacy, I have the impression that he And Bargiel had been forgotten many years until today! I followed the link to JPC, but don't yet samplers :'(, of course this release is very interesting And I will get it!
Worldcat also lists an "An den Stufen des Thrones, Roman von E. Rudorff" which might be by someone else (Eric? Emilio? Evel? :) "E."?) but the time period is right (pub.1888 in Köln am Rhein.)
This novel was written by one Franziska Jarke (1815-1896) under the pseudonym 'E. Rudorff'. It's not exactly an uncommon surname.
Here's the evidence:
https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?method=simpleSearch&cqlMode=true&reset=true&referrerPosition=4&referrerResultId=betRef%3D116263008%26any&query=idn%3D127469656 (https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?method=simpleSearch&cqlMode=true&reset=true&referrerPosition=4&referrerResultId=betRef%3D116263008%26any&query=idn%3D127469656)
oh. sorry! carry on.
No prob. It was a tempting possible connection.
Does anyone have a work list form op. 30 to op. 55, or so? Grove's list isn't complete from that point on...
I can add the following without much difficulty. (Opp.31, 40, etc. we already have, of course.)
Op.9: 6 Lieder f. 3- u. 4stimm. Frauenchor. (pub.1870, Simrock.) Heft 1. (3stimm.) Herab von den Bergen zum Thale. Frühlingswanderung. Abendlich schon rauscht der Wald. Heft 2. (4stimm.) Der Morgenwind. Aus des Knaben Wunderhorn. Lied der Spinnerin. ("Abendlich schon" - the text incipit (first few words...) - also known as "Abschied", and published separately in 1902, for men's chorus, also by Simrock.)
Op.28 is missing from that list, so: Drei Gedichte f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. (An die Erntfernte ; Einsamkeit ; An die Wolke.) pub. 1882, Bote & Bock.
Op.32 - Drei Lieder f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. (No. 1. ,,O meine müden Füsse". No. 2. ,,Droben, wo die Linde steht". No. 3. Im Gartenhause: ,,Ich sitz' im Gartenhause".) (pub.1885 or earlier, Bote & Bock.)
Op.33 - Vier Lieder f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. (No. 1. ,,In dem Himmel ruht die Erde". No. 2. ,,O mein Stern". No. 3. Im November: ,,Die Blätter, die zerfetzten". No. 4. ,,Veilchen, wie so schweigend".) (pub.1885, Bote & Bock.)
Op.34 - 3 Duette f. 2 Frauenst. m. Pfte. (No. 1. Die Glocken: ,,Aus dem fernen Thal". – 2. Die Schifferinnen: ,,Bin zur Welt gekommen einst auf Wogen". – 3. ,,Gold'ne Brücken seien alle Lieder mir".) (pub.1888, Schlesinger.)
Op.35 - 3 Duette f. 2 Frauenst. m. Pfte. (No. 1. Am Staubbach: ,,Rauschet Fluthen, rauschet nieder". – 2. ,,Auf dem Gebirg da geh'n zu Zwein". – 3. Die Heimath: ,,Ich weiss ein theuerwerthes Land". ) (pub.1888, Schlesinger.)
Op.36 - 4 Lieder (republished in 2002)
Op.37 - ?
Op.39 - Toskanische Lieder f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. (pub.1889, Schlesinger.)
Op.42 - ?
Op.43 - ?
Op.44 - ?
Op.45 - Romantische Ouvertüre comp. und dem Andenken Robert von Keudells gewidmet ... (pub.1920) (yes, in list, but a little extra detail :) )
Op.46 - ?
Op.47 - ?
Op.53 - ?
Hrm, just noticed something, will get back to this list soon... (?s may have to be filled in later by searching post-1900 volumes of HMB, or in other ways. Anyways...)
Rudorff's Symphony No. 3 was published in 1910. Does anyone know if it was composed at that time? After all, he would have been around 70. Of course. anything is possible. I'm very curious and my usual sources have been no help.
Haven't been able to find out when it was premiered, don't know the locations of any manuscripts, composer biographies, correspondence in which he refers to the music, etc. that would help fix the date... sorry!
According to the accompanying booklet, Rudorff's 3rd symphony has been composed (completed?) and published by Simrock in 1910,
its premiere had been given on Feb. 11th, 1911 by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Arnold Schattschneider.
Hope this helps.
Very interesting. My copy's in the post from jpc, so I'm very much looking forward to hearing the work. Have you listened to it yet?
Well, I have listened to it - but not carefully enough to give a profound description or to tell you some
of my impressions that would do justice to the symphony. One thing however I can promise you is that it certainly remains within the romantic realms of this forum!
Re Rudorff biography (in response to mykulh's composition date question, a sort of question I tend to concern myself with as well since I tend to be oddly skeptical of the common claim that works were composed in the same year they were published :) )- he does seem to have left some memoirs, early parts of which are excerpted in "Mendelssohn and His World" because of his family's relationship with Mendelssohn's and his recollection of the British premiere of the St Matthew Passion. See this Google Link (http://books.google.com/books?id=_QYAc4Anx0kC&pg=PA268) et seq. (if and as available- or "Mendelssohn and His World", ed. by R. Larry Todd, Princeton University Press, pub.2012, article "From the Memoirs of Ernst Rudorff", translated and annotated by Nancy B. Reich, pp.259-274.) I don't know if his memoirs continue into the 1900s-1910s- if so, that might answer. Maybe Prof. Reich might be contacted about the portion she didn't quote for this article? ... Might help for a Wikipedia or IMSLP worklist too, now I think about it... (I also find the title "Johannes Brahms im Briefwechsel mit Karl Reinthaler, Max Bruch, Hermann Deiters, Friedr. Heimsoeth, Karl Reinecke, Ernst Rudorff, Bernhard und Luise Scholz" interesting...)
Re: Symphony No.3 all I can I say is: Clearly downstream from Schumann, Reinecke, Volkmann, Dietrich, Bruch, Gernsheim, Brahms, Herzogenberg, etc., this is a wonderful work. Hats off, gentlemen, a masterpiece!
One of the most exciting things about this great (and I mean great) symphony is its rhythmic ingenuity. In that respect it's very much 'school of Brahms' (the late Dr Alan Krueck thought that Brahms' rhythmic inventiveness was one of the most important aspects of his music). However, Rudorff's music is clearly more advanced harmonically and pushes rhythm (and the contrasts between episodes) to greater extremes.
It's going to be hard to choose between this and Bargiel's Symphony in C as my symphonic discovery of the year. But they have one thing in common: if Bargiel seems to sum up the Beethovenian tradition; Rudorff seems to sum up that of Brahms.
Oh, and I forgot: performance and recording are magnificent. Conductor Frank Beermann is an expert at this type of music, as his cpo discography shows:
https://www.jpc.de/s/frank+beermann (https://www.jpc.de/s/frank+beermann)
...and the Bochum Symphony Orchestra are clearly an international-class ensemble.
Filling in the gaps...
1 Variationen (E) f. 2 Pfte zu 4 Hdn.
2 6 Lieder. (Im April. Ein Fichtenbaum steht einsam. Herbstlied. Stand ein Mädchen an dem Fenster. Erster Verlust. Bitte.) L
3 6 Gedichte v. J. v. Eichendorff. (Auf einer Burg. Wanderlied. Abendlandschaft. Der stille Freier. Liebe in der Fremde. Vorbei.)
4 6 vierhändige Klavierstücke. (Nachklang. Stimmen im Winde. Primula veris. Spanisch. Elfe. Fern hallt es am Schlosse.)
5 String Sextet in A, 3 vn, va, 2 vc, op.5;
6 ?
7 Romance in D, vc, orch, op.7;
8 Der Blonde Ekbert, Overture
9 6 Lieder f. 3- u. 4stimm. Frauenchor. Heft 1. (3stimm.) Herab von den Bergen zum Thale. Frühlingswanderung. Abendlich schon rauscht der Wald. 25 Ngr. Heft 2. (4stimm.) Der Morgenwind. Aus des Knaben Wunderhorn. Lied der Spinnerin.
10 8 Fantasiestücke, pf
11 ?
12 Otto der Schutz, overture
14 Fantasie in Bb, pf
15 Ballade (Introduction, Scherzo u. Finale) f. gr. Orch.
16 4 Lieder f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. Berlin, Bote & B. cplt Mk 2. No. 1. Romanze a. Quentin Durward: ,,Graf Guy, die Stunde naht". Mk 0,80. – 2. Frische Fahrt: ,,Laue Luft kommt blau geflossen". Mk 0,80. – 3. ,,Der Weg, den wir gewandelt".
17 4 lieder
18 Aufzug der Romanze (Tieck), solo vv, chorus, orch, op.18;
19 2 Gesänge f. S.-Solo, Frauenchor u. Orch. (od. Pfte.) (No. 1. ,,Die Liebe sass als Nachtigall". No. 2. Romanze. ,,Es stand ein Fräulein auf dem Schloss".)
20 Serenade for orchestra No. 1 in A
21 Serenade for orchestra No. 2 in G
22 6 Lieder f. dreistimm. Frauenchor ohne Begltg. (No. 1. ,,Wo noch kein Wandrer gegangen". No. 2. Ländliches Lied: ,,Aus dem tiefen stillen Grund". No. 3. Die Schnitterin: ,,Ich hab' manch Herz gefangen". No. 4. Der Hirt: ,,Jüngst sah ich einen Hirten". No. 5. ,,Grün war die Weide". No. 6. Kinderlust: ,,Nun feget aus den alten Staub".)
23 6 Lieder f. vierstimm. Frauenchor ohne Begltg. (No. 1. Mailied: ,,Im Maien, im Maien ist's lieblich und schön". No. 2. Zu Koblenz auf der Brücken". No. 3. Der verschwundene Stern: ,,Es stand ein Sternlein am Himmel". No. 4. Mädchenräthsel: ,,Träumt er zur Erde". No. 5. Bei Sonnenuntergang: ,,Fahr' wohl, o gold'ne Sonne". No. 6. Wiederhall: ,,In diesem grünen, grünen Wald".)
24 Variations in d minor on an Original Theme, op.24;
25 4 Lieder f. sechsstimm. Chor. (2 S., A., T. u. 2 B.) (No. 1. ,,All meine Herzgedanken." No. 2. Herbstlied: ,,O Herbst, in linden Tagen." No. 3. Frühlingsmarsch: ,,Hoch über euren Sorgen." No. 4. An die Sonne: ,,Scheuche doch mit deinem Pfeile.")
26 Gesang an die Sterne: ,,Sterne, in des Himmels Ferne", f. sechsstimm. Chor (2 S., A., T. u. 2 B.) u. Orch.
27 6 choral pieces, Op. 27. No. 5. Der Regenbogen: ,,Wo der Regenbogen steht" f. gem. Chor.No. 6. Jäger Wohlgemuth: ,,Es jaget ein Jäger so wohlgemuth"
28 3 Gedichte f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. Berlin, Bote & B. No. 1. An die Erntfernte: ,,Diese Rose pflück' ich hier". Mk 0,80. – 2. Einsamkeit: ,,Wild verwachs'ne dunkle Fichten". Mk 0,80. – 3. An die Wolke: ,,Zieh nicht so schnell vorüber".
29 2 Konzertetüden (b minor, E)
30 4 Lieder f. gem. Chor. (No. 1. ,,Du liebe, treue Laute". No. 2. Abendlied: ,,Die Sonne geht hinunter". No. 3. Morgenlied: ,,Wer schlägt so rasch an's Fenster mir". No. 4. Angedenken: ,,Berg' und Thäler wieder fingen".)
31 Symphony No. 1 in Bb
32 3 Lieder f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. (No. 1. ,,O meine müden Füsse". No. 2. ,,Droben, wo die Linde steht". No. 3. Im Gartenhause: ,,Ich sitz' im Gartenhause".)
33 4 lieder
34 3 Duette f. 2 Frauenst. m. Pfte. cplt Mk 2,50. Berlin, Schlesinger. No. 1. Die Glocken: ,,Aus dem fernen Thal". Mk 1,30. – 2. Die Schifferinnen: ,,Bin zur Welt gekommen einst auf Wogen". Mk 1,30. – 3. ,,Gold'ne Brücken seien alle Lieder mir".
35 3 Duette f. 2 Frauenst. m. Pfte. cplt Mk 2,50. Berlin, Schlesinger. No. 1. Am Staubbach: ,,Rauschet Fluthen, rauschet nieder". Mk 1. – 2. ,,Auf dem Gebirg da geh'n zu Zwein". Mk 0,80. – 3. Die Heimath: ,,Ich weiss ein theuerwerthes Land"
36 4 Lieder für gemischten Chor
37 ?
38 Kinderwalzer f. Pfte zu 4 Hdn.
39 8 Toskanische Lieder f. 1 Singst. m. Pfte. cplt. Mk 5. Berlin, Schlesinger. No. 1. Verfolgung: ,,Und ob du mich liessest". Mk 0,80. – 2. Rosenschlingen: ,,Ich sah ein lichtes Wölkchen". Mk 0,80. – 3. Das Hündchen: ,,Steht mein Liebster auf dem Hügel". Mk 0,80. – 4. Die Turteltaube: ,,Die Turteltaube ist blieben allein". Mk 1. – 5. Sehnsucht: ,,Junger Knabe, der du gehest". Mk 1. – 6. Das Seufzerhaus: ,,Ich will ein Haus mir bauen". Mk 0,80. – 7. Die Morgenschwalbe: ,,Liebe Schwalbe, kleine Schwalbe". Mk 1. – 8. Verschwiegenheit: ,,Blaues Sternlein, du sollst schweigen".
40 Symphony No. 2 in g minor
41 Romance in D, vn, orch, op.41;
42 3 lieder
43 Herbstlied, 6vv, orch, op.43;
44 ?
45 Romantische Ouvertüre, op.45;
46 3 lieder
47 4 lieder
48 3 Romanzen, op.48,
49 Capriccio appassionato, op.49;
50 Symphony No. 3 in b minor
51 Impromptu, op.51;
52 Klavierstücke, op.52;
53 ?
54 Klavierstücke op.54
55 Variazioni capricciose, op. 55;
Oh, well done. Thank you!
What I forgot to mention was the occasional wildness of Rudorff's music - which must have seemed rather disconcerting to his audiences.
Dear Balapoel: exhaustive research!!!
Dear Alan: very interesting your comments about Rudorff's music And Bargiel's music.
Anyone has listened Rudorff's piano music?
Op.55 published 1913 by Stahl (see e.g. HMB. p.1913, p.79.)
Thank you Erick!
HMB what Library is?
My own first impressions of Rudorff's Third Symphony echo Alan's - this really is a magnificent piece of music. It's a big work, not in duration (it's a modest 35 minutes long), but in the impression it makes. The outer movements are bursting with energy, the dynamic and rhythmic contrasts are sometimes so sudden that I was reminded of Beethoven in his wilder moments.The slow movement (placed second) is a gentler affair, but compensates with shifting colouration as it moves from pastoral gentility to moments of real darkness. The outer sections of the Scherzo are dance-like, but Rudorff cannot contain his energy in the centre of the piece. Gratifyingly, throughout the Symphony Rudorff is no slouch in either the orchestration or the melody departments. This work reveals him to be a master composer - it's an extraordinarily vital and vibrant work for a man of 70. Stylistically, I don't argue with anything Alan says. The piece is clearly in the Brahms/conservative tradition and, although it could be argued to have been an anachronism when compared with the works of Mahler and Strauss which were current when it was written, the sheer energy and confidence of the piece more than justify its existence.
Make no mistake, Rudorff's Third is an absolute winner.
That's a really helpful description, Mark. It sounds like it's a major advance on his 2nd symphony, and that I'll have to add it to my wish list!
Aramiarz - HMB is an abbreviation for Hofmeisters Monatsberichte, a monthly or bimonthly (usually) publication of Friedrich Hofmeister-Verlag from 1829 until 1946 or so. See e.g. HMB Scans Optically Character-Read from 1829 to 1900 (http://www.hofmeister.rhul.ac.uk/2008/) (database, searchable) ; Large Collection of HMB issues scanned in by the Austrian National Library (http://www.onb.ac.at/sammlungen/musik/16615.htm). Fairly good for dating German and Austrian music publications
(less good for French publications, which tend to be mentioned in HMB irregularly and sometimes years after they first appeared; the Bibliographie de la France, also available online now in a few places, is better if you have a work published in France from 1811 (I think) to the early 20th century or so (when digital copies of the Bibliographie no longer appear :) ).
Anyhow, I mention the HMB as a quick-and-dirty way of estimating when a work was published... it's a "mentioned in this contemporary source" sort-of-thing. Does -not- imply that the work still exists in any form; in too many cases, unless the work is hiding its light under an attic bushel somewhere, so far as we know, many of them mentioned in HMB that we've been looking about-and-around for have fallen victim to this, that and the other- (see e.g. what happened to very much of the music of Algernon Ashton, as an unfortunate example.)
Dear Erick
I'm grateful to You And the information! I have interest in the score op 55, have You idea where is it? What happen with music by Algernon?
Has anyone else heard the 3rd Symphony yet? For me, after two weeks of more or less constant listening and re-listening, the work continues to grow in stature. Although plainly in line of descent from Brahms, it has great ingenuity and inventiveness. Clearly, there was still life in the tradition when Rudorff was composing this in his old age. Wonderful. BUY IT!!
In view of the comments made re this symphony, I have listened to sound bites on Jpc.de and have now placed my order! I eagerly await the CD's arrival. Many thanks for alerting me to this composer.
It'll be right up your street, I'm sure, Dennis.
Today I listened to this symphony for the 4th time. It impresses me more each time I listen to it. I fully concur with all the comments made re- this symphony. That said, whilst listening again to this work, I jotted down my feelings in brief on each movement. For me, the opening movement is imposing, stately, and at times quite dramatic, leading to a stirring finish. the second movement is a more solemn affair, not really a funeral march for me, the music alternating between passages that are quite lyrical, even pastoral in feel, leading to a peaceful close. The third movement opens with a slightly faster tempo than movement two, and takes on a gentle, dance like mood, becoming faster and more dramatic in feel, leading to a lyrical close. The fourth movement starts in playful, light-hearted mood, then increasing in intensity, before again taking on a dancelike feel, followed by a more dramatic section with swirling passages, leading to a big, grand finish. What particularly struck me and is evident from my description of each movement, is the change of rhythms within each movement, at times quite abrupt but at the same time, these changes maintained my interest in the music. None of my comments shed any new light on this symphony but merely confirm what others have said about this symphony in this thread. As has already been pointed out, I was reminded at times of the music of Weber, Schubert and even a little bit of Brahms as well. It certainly is a rewarding symphony to listen to and repays the listener even more on repeated hearings.
Thank you UC for this recommendation.
As I thought: we obviously live up the same street (musically speaking!)
The CD is due for release in the UK in January:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/rudorff-ernst-symphony-no-3-bochumer-symphoniker-frank-beermann-cpo.html (http://www.mdt.co.uk/rudorff-ernst-symphony-no-3-bochumer-symphoniker-frank-beermann-cpo.html)
Late answer: don't know offhand if any libraries have Rudorff's Op.55. I see some other late works of his listed in Worldcat - the Capriccio Appassionato Op.49 is in a Schwerin library, as are the Op.48 Romanze (the same library has the Op.12 overture - score and parts; the Op.10 fantasiestücke; 6 Lieder, Op.9; the 2nd symphony and some other works, including some cadenzas for concertos by other composers) ; and a piano duet reduction of the overture Op.45 is mentioned in another library catalog (all, like Op.55, published by Stahl of Berlin).
(We have some of the works I mentioned @ IMSLP, it's true, though only half of Op.10 at present.)
Across the pond I just received a copy of it and like others on this forum have similar experiences with the work, a new composer to me. My first listen was one of being bored with a piece that seemed to make no sense to me, sounded like many other works that didn't grab my attention at all. I went to this site to read what Alan and Mark had to say about it and I've decided to give it three more listens and then see what kind of opinion I form. It seems right now to have been all over the place. I was settling in on his third movement a minuet style when there is a sudden tempo change a sense of urgency and a loud fortissimo followed by a return to the more calming part quite like the beginning of the movement which suddenly ends. Seems like it could have been a bit longer. Needs more listens for me.
Tom
Unpredictability is the name of the game with Rudorff 3...
you sure got that right Alan. Will give it more time before I pass judgment.
Tom
I gave it a second listen and it did sound better to me however I can't hear how all of the movements are tied together according to what I read in the liner notes. Also does CPO plan on releasing the first two symphonies or has that already happened?
Tom
There are no plans that I know of, Tom.
One can hear the 2nd symphony online, though (as well as read it online @ IMSLP). See: this link. (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,1373.msg19834.html#msg19834)
https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/symphony-no-3-variationsrudorff/ (https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/symphony-no-3-variationsrudorff/)
I'm glad I added this to my collection of material. As stated earlier repeated listens produced a better understanding of the piece.
Tom
I found listening to Rudorff's 2nd to be intriguiging, so much as could be made of a very amateur performance extremely badly recorded, so I ordered the CPO release as soon as I saw it. I'm not sure that the 2nd isn't the better piece, but both require more attention. The 3rd is certainly a startling work. You find long passages that Brahms would have been quite comfortable with, and then suddenly the music lunges violently in another direction. I would draw attention particularly to the coda of the first movement as something to make you gasp. The work is really fascinating, and I'm sure will well replay further listening.
I don't agree with the contention of the writer of the notes that it represents the last ever Romantic symphony, though.
Ah, yay for tendentious notes.
QuoteI don't agree with the contention of the writer of the notes that it represents the last ever Romantic symphony, though.
Quite, although it's probably one of the last in the tradition of Schuman/Brahms (along with, for example, Röntgen's roughly contemporary C minor Symphony).
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 20 January 2015, 08:07
Quite, although it's probably one of the last in the tradition of Schuman/Brahms (along with, for example, Röntgen's roughly contemporary C minor Symphony).
1910? Really? I'll have to check the idioms of several dozen symphonies since then...
Nope, there would be further symphonies along the same tradition by:
Hadley
Weingartner
Louis Glass
Stanford
Bischoff
Parry
Somervell
Tovey
(and that's just the next 3 years)
OK, here's the thing:
Hadley - both Symphonies 2 and 4 contain an awful lot more Wagner/Dvorak/Strauss than Brahms.
Weingartner - had moved way beyond Brahms by 1910 (Symphony No.3 is hyper-Straussian).
Louis Glass - as much influenced by Bruckner or Dvorak as by Brahms.
Stanford - No.7 (1911) is roughly contemporary with Rudorff 3. He's certainly in the tradition.
Bischoff - far more Straussian than Brahmsian.
Parry - No.5 (1912) is roughly contemporary with Rudorff 3. He's also in the tradition.
Somervell - Thalassa Symphony has a lot of Tchaikovsky in it.
Tovey - D major Symphony (1913) is considerably beyond Brahms in idiom.
So, I'd accept Stanford and Parry as late co-perpetuators of an audibly Brahmsian tradition with Rudorff, but definitely not any of the others...
the program notes writer wrote "Romantic symphony", yes? Not "Schumann/Brahms" (actually, that should be "Schumann" and "Brahms", since the latter's symphonism is not a continuation of the former's), or else we're adding limits that aren't weren't in the claim. (Of course, something like Furtwängler 2 - which I like, enjoy, am enthralled by even, a fair amount more than a lot of others who've heard it, combines, as noted by a reviewer in Fanfare Magazine* a few years ago -influence not just from Bruckner, Brahms, but also Dvorak and others- how much intentionally and how much through, erm, conductor's osmosis** (?), I certainly wouldn't know...)
*Of a 2-for-1 reissue of the Arte Nova recording of the (Furtwängler) 2nd symphony. Two reviews, actually. (One criticized the program notes of the new issue for notes that were too general, lacking much information on the music- could they have been worse in this regard than the folder-notes to Barenboim's recording? I guess so...)
**given his very wide range of conducting repertoire, including Ewald Straesser***, Hindemith, Bartók, others, I should note there seems to have been some selectivity applied, by way of a by the way to the by the way of a by the way. Though since I don't know the Straesser works he conducted- I'd like to- he could have quoted them for all I know. (I didn't even know about the Tristan quote in Mahler 5's Adagietto until a few days ago- because I don't know Tristan at all well. Sad, no?)
***rather Romantic himself; indeed Straesser symphony 2 (D minor) was composed, I think, and certainly published, a few years after Rudorff 3, and belongs in the Romantic tradition if not in the Schumann or the Brahms tradition specifically; his E minor 4th quartet (published 1920) is at worst not too far from...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 20 January 2015, 11:12
So, I'd accept Stanford and Parry as late co-perpetuators of an audibly Brahmsian tradition with Rudorff, but definitely not any of the others...
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion - and of course some weigh more than others here.
And I certainly could add much more beyond the 3 years further I surveyed, but i will not - others will have to guess.
Oh, it'd be good to hear which other symphonists carried on the tradition beyond, say, WW1. I can't think of any off-hand (save for Röntgen).
"Weingartner - had moved way beyond Brahms by 1910 (Symphony No.3 is hyper-Straussian)."
That may be true of the third symphony, but would you really describe #4 (from 1916) as anything but Brahmsian (or, in the last movement, perhaps Beethovenian)?
The idea of the "last Romantic" rather reminds me of Mahler's response to Brahms when Brahms described himself as the last symphonist,. or something like that. Mahler suddenly gasped and pointed at the stream they were passing. "What is it?" Brahms asked. "The last wave," Mahler replied.
I'm not talking about the 'last Romantic' here. The subject of this thread is Rudorff, whose 3rd Symphony clearly stands in the tradition of Schumann and Brahms. My contention was simply that the Rudorff represents the last gasp of this particular narrower symphonic trajectory - to which one might add the roughly contemporary Parry 5 and Stanford 7.
Weingartner 4 certainly has elements of Brahms, but I'd respectfully suggest there's far more to its idiom than that: as Rob Barnett at MusicWeb says:
The Fourth Symphony was written in the midst of the Great War. All the same Weingartner stares determinedly towards the German countryside. The first of the four movements is dominated by a birdsong motif that aspires to more Olympian heights. Amidst this the shreds of a waltz obtrude. This is no rustic waltz but one with psychological fantasy - almost Ravel's La Valse. There is a gracious Andante con moto inflected by Brahms' Third and by Korngold. The third movement Comodo is hearty but not stodgy - recalling the bucolic quietude of Schubert's Great C major. The finale starts with some Mahlerian bubbling brass and a theme for the strings that dances and sings in equal measure. At times the music evokes a vision of children and farm animals kneeling in a country church bathed in morning light. The first movement's birdsong motif returns at the pinnacle to bring us full circle. The orchestration has the weightiness and density of Franz Schmidt without his psychological dimension. This is a symphony of rural grandeur.
Well, so as not to change the actual topic too drastically (though I did think I was responding to relevant comments: "Quite, although it's probably one of the last in the tradition of Schuman/Brahms (along with, for example, Röntgen's roughly contemporary C minor Symphony).")-- I'll just say that the comments you cite strike me as being extremely subjective ("a vision of children and farm animals kneeling in a country church bathed in morning light"), while leaving out objective elements (the Brahmsian strings in the second movement and the virtual quotation from Beethoven 6 heard at least twice in the last movement, e.g.). I hear no Ravel here at all, and only the tiniest and briefest dusting of something akin to Mahler. The sound of it strikes me as very much in the Schumann/Brahms tradition, more so than any other. But I won't press the point.
Much as I like William Schuman's symphonies, I think the notion of a Schuman/Brahms tradition is a bit broad. Even the "Schumann/Brahms tradition" that you may mean is a handwave turn of phrase in the wrong ways, folding traditions into a tradition- but i repeat myself, and King Canute wants his crown back. So, wth.
I take the points made about Weingartner 4, although I do think that its idiom is much more advanced than the Brahms-Rudorff-Stanford-Parry trajectory.
Any other candidates?
Re Brahms-Mahler anecdote- rather like it but when and where are they supposed to have met...
oh, I see. (Made [several] yearly visits to, and met with Brahms at, Bad Ischl, the last time in 1896...) got it...
MusicWeb's Nick Barnard gets the Rudorff badly wrong:
QuoteThe Third Symphony recorded here was first performed - by the Berlin Philharmonic - in 1911 but in all regards it could easily have been composed fifty years earlier.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Jan/Rudorff_sy3_7774582.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Jan/Rudorff_sy3_7774582.htm)
Really? In 1861? Prior to Brahms? Oh dear...
...and even if it were true - which it isn't - why does it matter?
I'm afraid that Nick Barnard's review mirrors his utterly wrong-headed assessment of Rudorff's Third: superficially impressive, but lacking in substance and best left to gather dust.
still, worth making a brief reply to on their bulletin board, maybe... hrm.
Belatedly filling in that worklist slightly (sorry...!!)
Rudorff's Op.44 is 3 Lieder (for solo voice & piano), published by Stahl of Berlin in 1904. (HMB (http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-buch?apm=0&aid=1000001&bd=0001904&teil=0203&seite=00000038&zoom=6), which also lists the Op.37 5 Lieder, with text incipits for each.)