Opinions seem to be sharply divided over the symphonies of Allan Pettersson. Do forum members have any opinions about him - and recommendations?
have heard most of his symphonies, his 2nd violin concerto, and some other works at least once each, often a number of times. Somehow the closest composer who comes to mind is maybe Vermeulen?... not sure - and it depends on which Pettersson symphony (Pettersson symphony 13 (beginning fwiw in C minor and ending in D-flat, for what that is worth...), I think, is closer to Vermeulen, maybe, than some of the others. Symphonies 6 and 8 are maybe closer to some other, less active, more obsessive, composers, with codas that aren't, slow cadential phrases that lead to others, toward the end. And symphony 7 with its heartbeat ending (if I recall?) (deservedly one of the more popular). Symphony 15 is to my ears very well presented by Segerstam on a BIS CD (with symphony 3, a different proposition entirely) and goes through quite a bit before a (to my ears wrenching) ending (C major having been prepared at some length, and moving scalewise, we end on a F-sharp major chord, and not a very definite one either.)
And symphony 9 (which I've heard in both its commercial recordings, anyway - the LP, which "converted" me at least literally from boredom (I'd already heard one or maybe two of the others and wasn't much impressed... not sure which those were, though) to curiosity, interest and even quite liking this music, and the Alun Francis cpo CD (I wish Segerstam would record this work and at least allow his broadcast of symphony 4 (another work with a sudden surprise at the end- but I've given a brief summary of my opinions on this piece) to be released, as I said...) A 70-odd minute single movement that begins with overlapping scales and punctuated chords, and ends with a sort of hymn. ...
Maybe start with symphony 7 (not sure what the best recording is though...), or the Orfeo recording of symphony 8, or with the BIS disc of 3/15 in my opinion?
Thank you, Eric. Very helpful.
I don't know all of Pettersson's symphonies. I have sympathies for his very expressive style, but couldn't listen to him everytime. Of the works I know, my favourites are the symphonies No. 10 and 11, because it seems to me, that Pettersson in this compositions had said that in 25 minutes, for what he mostly needs 50 minutes and more. Both are complex one movement structures, like the most other Pettersson symphonies. No. 10 has a more aggressive, extroverted character, No. 11 I would characterise as the darker and more introspective piece.
#7 is certainly the place to start. There is currently an excellent performance in Swedish Radio's archive, in the Midday Classics [Klassisk förmiddag] program at http://sverigesradio.se/sida/tabla.aspx?programid=163&date=2011-08-29 (http://sverigesradio.se/sida/tabla.aspx?programid=163&date=2011-08-29). But... I'm still partial to Dorati's recording, the first-ever commercial recording of any Pettersson symphony, and the disc that first brought him to the world's awareness.
Generally speaking, the earlier symphonies are more accessible than the later symphonies, with the turning point occurring around #11. In addition to #7, I love #8 especially.
To get a more rounded picture of Pettersson, you also need to hear the Barefoot Songs -- incredibly beautiful, often moving, quite tonal with a luscious Scandinavian modal flavor. Pettersson quotes parts of some of these songs in his later works, so knowing their source and context adds great poignancy when hearing those later works.
The Formiddag program if they're still as I remember them will disappear a month after broadcast- not sure. Concertzender I think keeps their programs indefinitely (sort of- nothing is permanent of course, 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and all of that.)
8 Barefoot Songs were broadcast in this 2009 May (http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?detail=35770&date=2009-05-19) Concertzender program; the cpo symphony no.12/Honeck was broadcast here (http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2008-06-14&detail=30375).
Again, thanks for the information and recommendations.
QuoteConcertzender I think keeps their programs indefinitely (sort of
In the course of exploring Concertzender, I've found that the shelf life is about 5 years. I was very disappointed when I found some things I was eager to listen to, and the audio link had expired, but the listing was still there. An unfortunate tease!
not sure about the shelf life for Concertzender archives being 5 years- I'm fairly sure- not positive...??- that the items pre-late-2006 have not been archived, and that the items from then on are (though you need something like WMP - or a roughly equivalent freeware program that will play .wma files - to play some of the items from late 2006 to a certain point in 2007, then a MP3 player is sufficient.) Still, will go back and check to see if the problem has moved up in time and that it really is a relative-to-present and not absolute in time thing...!
If you know of some way to get at these old Concertzender programs, I'd be delighted to know.
Perhaps I was unclear, though, in stating that the audio link had expired. What I meant more precisely was that the audio link is gone. The listing is still there, but there is no audio link of any kind to click on.
Yes, that's what I meant too.
I've been listening to the symphonies of Pettersson for many years and I was also fortunate to study the orchestral scores and that was a marvellous experience : every detail is important and the way he treats the strings especially is unique, there is nothing done just to fill up the paper with black ink as one can see in Magnus Lindberg's scores for example.
I don't see a lot of Vermeulen ( but I have to confess I don't know this composer very well) or any other composer in Pettersson's music but Pettersson himself, he has been compared to Mahler but that's inaccurate (except for the length of his symphonies), his inner nature would rather make him closer to Bruckner but the anger and the never ending struggle are far, far away from the St Florian monastery, Ivanov would come to my mind for the way both of them treat the musical material but they are of course very different stylistically.
Listening to his symphonies is a very demanding experience indeed but these mostly one mvt massive works need to be listened in a row several times to be understood : there is no other option.
The second, third and fourth symphonies show Petterson's early influences (atonality and dodecaphonism) but also his will to not give up the melody, interesting but not really fully convincing IMO : the writing is really spare.
The fifth is a transitional work in which the tonal writing becomes more and more prominent, there are several recordings of this work.
The sixth is a good work, the second Pettersson manner is clearly defined here, the Kamu recording is at least as good as the CPO one.
The 7th and 8th symphonies are of course the more accessible, for the 7th I would recommend the Dorati or even the CPO recordings, for the eight the CPO is not bad but the Commisionna is better IMO.
I don't think the ninth is the best Pettersson : it is again a transitional work in which Pettersson will increase the density of his orchestral writing and the tempi are getting faster too but harmonically I don't think he was satisfied with the evolution : too much chromatiscism that actually kills the harmony. The CPO recording is the most respectful of the tempi but Commisionna has a better feeling IMO.
To me the real fun ( or struggle) starts with the 10th and especially the 11th : the CPO recordings are not great and I recommend the Dorati for the 10th and the Segerstam for the 11th : the latter symphony is really a masterpiece and the way the trumpet makes its way above the muted one to play the theme a very last time at the very end, is just stunning.
The 12th is very different from the others because of the use of the choir : it is harmonically more conservative but still a powerfull work, the Caprice recording is excellent.
The 13th is the most difficult of all the symphonies and it is also very challenging for the orchestra, it is just incredible that one can write such powerful music. The CPO recording is the only one I know.
The 14th and 15th share the same musical material and are brilliant works, the ending of the 15th is to me one of the most beautiful moment in music ever written, Commisiona and Segerstam are respectively the recordings to pick.
The problem of the 16th is that it is not really a symphony partly because Pettersson didn't know how to use a saxophone like he did with a stringed instrument : the CPO recording offers a reworking of the solo part by the soloist and I don't remember the Ahronovitch recording very well.
I'm not even sure Pettersson's time will come and the fact I will possibly never attend a real performance of his symphonies makes me angry myself.
Apparently the BBC Scottish Symphony did perform symphony 7 in the studio recently, and will be broadcasting it in 2 days. See Afternoon on 3 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014qskd) for September 19 2011, which also contains a brief work by Havergal Brian. Just saying.
Thanks, Sicmu, for that full and insightful resumé of Pettersson's symphonic development.
I believe I have some broadcasts of live performances (not commercial recordings) of some Pettersson symphonies. I can make available in Downloads, if there is interest.
I need to completely digitize the one such broadcast I have (Segerstam/Norrkoping) I have - for various "contingent" reasons it cuts off a minute or so before the end of the piece, though the tape the CD was made from is complete... so have to go back and do that over again. Excellent performance. If you have what's probably the same though, go right ahead :) (somewhere or other I have what year and other information for that broadcast. Sigh.)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 18 September 2011, 04:37
Apparently the BBC Scottish Symphony did perform symphony 7 in the studio recently, and will be broadcasting it in 2 days. See Afternoon on 3 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014qskd) for September 19 2011
I heard this in the car this afternoon. It took me a few minutes to realise what I was listening to, but soon twigged. I was by turns fascinated and turned off by the piece, the prevailing gloom being the problem for me. Still, I think I'll invest in a cheap copy from somewhere for further listening.
Naxos was going at one point to get Petter Sundqvist (and a Swedish orchestra) to record the 7th and (just) the Mesto middle movement from Pettersson's big 3rd concerto for strings as (probably) a nicely-filled single CD, and more if interest developed, but I think the reason they did not at the time may have been a policy, since dropped, of non-competition with cpo... I wonder about now?... for all I know- and I don't, I am guessing- the recordings could be in the can... I like the idea, having heard some other recordings (I think they were going to use the same orchestra as for the - admittedly mostly very different- but not, I maintain singularly, entirely so) 2nd symphony and Excelsior of Stenhammar...
I've added a broadcast performance of Pettersson's 7th to the Swedish collection in downloads. This is a very good performance from last week in excellent audio.
Just been listening to the new BIS cd of Pettersson's 1st symphony(as reconstructed by Christian Lindberg) and 2nd symphony.
I wondered if there was a Pettersson thread here. Having read Sicmu's splendid post I am conscious that I can add very little to what he has said.
There is indeed so much in Pettersson's symphonies which is incredibly powerful but equally there is no denying that this is difficult music which requires a massive amount of concentration and effort on the part of the listener. Unless one is prepared to immerse oneself totally in the music a 40 minute piece can seem like three hours ;D
The problem I find is that such total immersion leaves me almost completely drained and that sensation is not the catharsis I experience with a Bruckner symphony. With Bruckner I feel elevated towards some spiritual plane. With Pettersson I feel nothing but pain and despair. The almost unremitting bleakness of Pettersson's vision is undeniably impressive. There is a grandeur which on the one hand is magnificently impressive but on the other makes me wonder why on earth I am depressing myself listening to the music.
That inescapable paradox is a large part of the fascination with a composer whose apparent popularity on disc is unlikely ever to be matched in the concert hall.
Sicmu's excellent summary is very helpful. :)
I can't claim to be familiar with all Pettersson's symphonies, and they are rather bleak and cold, but they are obviously the work of a great symphonist. The 13th is the one I listen to most often - pure genius. 8)
After writing my post above last night I watched the bonus dvd which comes with the BIS recording of the first and second symphonies. The documentary contained on the dvd recounts the efforts of a number of people, including Christian Lindberg himself of course, to get the first symphony into a playable condition and of the initial reluctance of Pettersson's widow to permit performance.
Interestingly though, towards the end of the documentary-which spends a lot of time recounting Pettersson's early life and personal troubles-a bright and personable young musicologist from Uppsala University says that perhaps it is time to forget all about that back-story and concentrate instead just on the music ;D
Quote from: Dundonnell on Wednesday 02 November 2011, 13:38
...a bright and personable young musicologist from Uppsala University says that perhaps it is time to forget all about that back-story and concentrate instead just on the music ;D
It's tempting to say "Well, duh!" ;D But, of course, one can't turn memory on and off, so one simply can't "forget" that background and, while it my be reasonable to say "concentrate ...on the music", I think knowing the background might help. :)