Recommendations, please!
Which of A. Rubinstein's chamber compositions would friends say are his best?
(Recommended recordings would be a help too!)
I love the viola sonata and can recommend the recording on Disques Pierre Verany - although the other recording I have isn't bad, either. Furthermore, his quintet for piano & winds is really catchy - it doesn't plunge any great depths, but is well worth listening to. Of this work you might want get the Orfeo recording, while I don't think the old Dynamic CD is still available.
On the Orfeo CD, you will find his octet for piano, string & winds as well. It's more serious Rubinstein, like his later piano quintet and the cello sonatas. Speaking of which, perhaps someone in the room can tell us something about last year's Hyperion recording of these sonatas? In any case, you'll find fine recordings on Etcetera, Praga, Zig Zag Territoires and, again, Dynamic. Try and go for the latter, if it's still in print!
Avoid: the only recording of one of his piano trios I have on Melodyia (horrible recording) and the string quartets on Etcetera (downright boring - perhaps because there's no piano participating?).
I've midified a movement from his last string quartet and another from his string quintet but may be the only person in the old Raff forum who liked them :) (which is tangential anyhow- sorry.) The Etcetera recording of the cello sonatas is quite good. If you compare it with the IMSLP-available score of one of the sonatas you'll find a different edition with different movement headings, incidentally. I forget if that is also the case with the (of course nla, but also enjoyable) recording of one of the Rubinstein sonatas that was on a Genesis LP coupled with Gernsheim's 1st cello sonata.
Eric
Duos: All the duo sonatas are worth a shot. The violin sonatas were done by the same team for Nuova Era (1+2) and Tizano (3). The sound is very dry, but realistic. The best of the viola sonata recordings was coupled with Brahms on Calliope. Of the several cello recordings, I've heard good things about the new Hyperion. The Dynamic is good, too. The Etcetera suffers from a feeble cello.
Trios: So far only trios 1-3 have been recorded. All are worth hearing. #1 is coupled with 3 on a Russian Disc recording that is a strain to listen to (all the instruments are miked point-blank), but it's your only bet for #1. Trio di Torino have done 2 and 3 for Real Sound on two separate discs, coupled with the Smetana and the Taneyev. Very good sound for both. There is a Melodiya disc of #3 along with the Op. 11 cello pieces. Of the three recordings of #3, this is by far the best. A very vivid and exciting performance that illustrates why Von Bulow was so fond of it.
String Quartets: So far only 1+2 have made it to disc, on Etcetera. If you like Mendelssohn, you'll find these charming. And enterprising quartet has posted performances of three of the four movements of the 3rd quartet on YouTube. It makes you wish for a commercial recording,
Piano Quintets: Of the several recordings of Op. 55, only the Orfeo is complete. All the others take substantial cuts in the finale. It's your best bet, but they damage the final reprise of the theme in the slow movement by taking it too fast. A better performance of that movement (and better horn playing) can be found on the old Vox LP. This quintet is full of charm and pleasant surprises. It ranks among his more sure footed works.
There is only one recording of the Op. 99. It's not one of his best, being rather episodic (like the 4th Symphony). Also, the composer is at a loss as to what to do with this quartet. They play in unison or octaves for page after page, or he pairs them such that 1st violin doubles the viola and the 2nd violin doubles the cello. 50 minutes of this is a bit much, but the work has many beautiful moments. It's on the Eda Abseits label.
The Quintet for Piano & Winds is an absolute stunner. Full of perky life. The Piano Quintet is totally dominated by the piano (wasn't the material originally for a concerto?). If you don't mind that it's an enjoyable work, if not his best. Like much of Rubinstein it's rather loosely written, but the melody carries you along. Like Kriton I find the String Quartets recorded on Etcetera (Nos.1 and 2 of seven altogether) very dry stuff, despite them being early works. All three Piano Trios are mellifluously lovely - the Russian Trio play Nos.1 & 3 on a Russian Disc CD. I have a download of the Trio di Torino playing No.2 - I don't know the original label. The Violin Sonatas (three of them played by Lazari & Gibellato on a pair of Italian labels) are a mixed bag. I can't remember without listening to them, but one of them is a stand out - attractively dramatic and meltingly lyrical. The Viola Sonata is a lovely work, appropriately dark hued and not too dominated by the piano. I too have the Russian Disc recordings of the Cello Sonatas Nos.1 & 2, but can't remember a note of them.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 04 August 2010, 09:02
The Piano Quintet is totally dominated by the piano (wasn't the material originally for a concerto?).
I think I read this about his piano octet - and we might very well both be right...
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 04 August 2010, 09:02
The Quintet for Piano & Winds is an absolute stunner. Full of perky life. The Piano Quintet is totally dominated by the piano (wasn't the material originally for a concerto?). If you don't mind that it's an enjoyable work, if not his best. Like much of Rubinstein it's rather loosely written, but the melody carries you along. Like Kriton I find the String Quartets recorded on Etcetera (Nos.1 and 2 of seven altogether) very dry stuff, despite them being early works. All three Piano Trios are mellifluously lovely - the Russian Trio play Nos.1 & 3 on a Russian Disc CD. I have a download of the Trio di Torino playing No.2 - I don't know the original label. The Violin Sonatas (three of them played by Lazari & Gibellato on a pair of Italian labels) are a mixed bag. I can't remember without listening to them, but one of them is a stand out - attractively dramatic and meltingly lyrical. The Viola Sonata is a lovely work, appropriately dark hued and not too dominated by the piano. I too have the Russian Disc recordings of the Cello Sonatas Nos.1 & 2, but can't remember a note of them.
I believe the work whose material was originally for a concerto is the octet.
(There are 10 quartets. 7?)
Eric
Thank you, one and all, for such a cornucopia of information and recommendations!
I bow to Kriton and Eric for correcting my memory on the Octet/Piano Quintet and to Eric for putting me right on the number of String Quartets. I shall now crawl away into a corner and weep, quietly...
I can confirm that it is the octet that was originally written as a piano concerto in C in 1849. This was Rubinstein's third attempt at a piano concerto, the manuscripts of all three early attempts seem to have dissapeared.
I read recently that there is a complete recording of the piano trios played the Edlian Trio which will be released on the Metronome label, it is billed as a world premier recording...
As to where to get it from, I found no trace at my usual sources but I can't say that i have looked exhaustively for it!
hrm. recordings I can find out about easily of Rubinstein trios so far:
*nos. 1 op.15/1 in G minor and 3 (much-loved in its day I seem to recall) in B-flat op52, on Russian Disc, played by the Romantic Trio (released 1995)
*no.3 and some various pieces, on Melodiya (1990/3?) (Marat Bisengaliev; Yuri Semenov; Eleonora Teplukhina)
*no. 3 with Taneyev's trio in D op.22 (Trio di Torino, on RealSound, 2002.)
Might be others. But it does seem that the Metronome recording will probably be a premiere recording of trios 2, 4 and 5...
Eric
Piano Trio No.2 op.15/2 is played by Trio di Torino on a RealSound CD (http://www.deepdiscount.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/productID/26801196-6104-4CCD-A295-C943B49B2F3F/), coupled with the Smetana Piano Trio op.15. It's downloadable via iTunes.
Quote from: Jonathan on Wednesday 04 August 2010, 18:16
I read recently that there is a complete recording of the piano trios played the Edlian Trio which will be released on the Metronome label, it is billed as a world premier recording...
As to where to get it from, I found no trace at my usual sources but I can't say that i have looked exhaustively for it!
Jonathan,
Where did you read this? The Edlian has already released their recording of #2 (which makes two recordings so far). I wrote to them in 2005. They said that they hoped to record the other four by the end of that year. Nothing ever materialized, so I recently wrote them again to see if the project had ever gotten off the ground. I received no reply, so I decided to let it go at that. In any case, there is nothing at the Edlian or Metronome sites that even hint at this.
Leslie Howard has performed (but not recorded) the Piano Quartet in C, Op. 66. I wonder if he could ever be persuaded to put it in the can?
Hi John,
It's actually on the outside back cover of my girlfriends August/September edition of "Pianist" along with an advert for 2 Cds of works by Richard Rodney Bennett.
As I said, I've had no joy in locating the CD yet either!
I'd really like to hear Leslie Howard in more Rubinstein but at the moment I would assume he's busy preparing for another addendum to the Hyperion Liszt edition which is due to be released to coincide with Liszt's 200th birthday next year. For those who are interested, two of the works which hopefully will be on that disc are an early version of Scherzo and March (entitled Wilde Jagd) and another Fantasy on Spanish themes (both published in the Liszt society journal from last year).
Re the Metronome CD set of Rubinstein trios, it's now listed at MDT under pre-releases (forthcoming recordings?) :
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//METCD1081.htm (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//METCD1081.htm)
G major for trio 2 seems a typo to me, if I remember the score, but that happens.
Eric
Quote from: eschiss1 on Saturday 07 August 2010, 20:10
Re the Metronome CD set of Rubinstein trios, it's now listed at MDT under pre-releases (forthcoming recordings?) :
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//METCD1081.htm (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//METCD1081.htm)
G major for trio 2 seems a typo to me, if I remember the score, but that happens.
Eric
The listing does not bode well. It's billed as a two-disc set. It shows trios 1-3 on the first disc, 4 & 5 on the second. The problem is that in my recordings trios 1-3 are each more than 30 minutes long, and that's without observing repeats in the finale of 2 or the slow movement of 1. So the first three trios should total about 95 minutes, which is approximately 15 minutes longer than a CD can hold. It would be difficult to trim 5 minutes or more from each trio without breakneck rushing or large scale cuts.
Either that, or the info is inaccurate and the 3rd trio has been split between discs one and two, a solution which I've always disliked.
We'll see!
Unfortunately, Metronome's website does not seem to be of help here. May have to wait until it comes out... (jpc doesn't carry Metronome apparently, either ?!?.)
Eric
Well, the Edlian Trio recording of Rubinstein's five piano trios is here. It's billed as "The Complete Piano Trios - World Premiere Recording", but it should be re-titled, "Most of Rubinstein's Five Trios - World Premiere Recording of the Bleeding Chunks".
The trios are savagely cut to fit them on to two discs. Most of the cuts are in the codas of the first and last movements of each trio, sometimes a few bars, sometimes pages of material. Remember the end of the 4th Concerto, where there is that long build up to the final restatement of the main theme? Well, imagine that build up, but then immediately cutting to the final bars, skipping the big restatement. That's basically what they do to each opening and closing movement. The composer's carefully planned codas (which, unlike his developments, he could manage effectively) are destroyed. "Okay, we've played enough! Cut to the final cadence!"
Happily, complete performances of trios 1 through 3 are available, but for the last two, we're stuck with this.
Really, it's a crime.
But it's a start. There's a lot of music that for a long time we only knew in cut versions. Rachmaninoff 2nd, Tchaikovsky Manfred, Raff 3rd, Gliere 3rd, Amy Beach Symphony to name a few. Maybe the recordings will inspire another outfit to make a truly complete recording.
Heretical thought to self: perhaps Rubinstein's piano trios are best heard cut?
Ouch!
I get the idea that in this case there was some terribly effective material excised. John seems really worked up over it.
Quote from: mbhaub on Wednesday 15 September 2010, 05:30
But it's a start. There's a lot of music that for a long time we only knew in cut versions. Rachmaninoff 2nd, Tchaikovsky Manfred, Raff 3rd, Gliere 3rd, Amy Beach Symphony to name a few. Maybe the recordings will inspire another outfit to make a truly complete recording.
There is, too, a huge difference between a well-done, carefully-planned, composer-sanctioned cut (Liszt, Alan Walker wrote as I recall, was very good at placing cuts so that the remaining pieces were still effective music!) and an arbitrary mess.
Eric (who is also, by the way, waiting for commercial recordings of the string quintet in F, piano quartet in C - or is that recorded? missed it...- and string sextet in D.)
Quote from: john_boyer on Wednesday 15 September 2010, 03:51
The trios are savagely cut to fit them on to two discs.
Poor Anton. His Piano Trio's savagely cut. What would he think of what musicians in later centuries did with his music? Perhaps he's just very happy to know that he isn't forgotten at all, and that he has enthusiastic advocates, even in a small country like the Netherlands...
Never mind, let's judge for ourselves and order the double CD. I'm very eager to hear (the major parts of) the 4th and 5th Piano Trio.
Interestingly, I was in an Oxfam shop in York today where they had a copy of the Cello Sonatas disc on the Russian Disc label. It's still there, if anyone wants to go and buy it - it's hidden behind Wagner's Ring (I had to go home and check if I'd already got it, which it turns out, I had).
Whatever cruelty is done by the Edlian Piano Trio, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the Piano Trios 4 and 5. Especially 5 is rather complex and full of surprising changes of mood. Sometimes I get the idea that the violinist is playing a bit out of tune.
Because I have never heard the 4 and 5, I cannot compare it with how it should be if every written note was played. Now that I don't know, I don't miss anything... And therefore I dare to say that the £19 (MDT) is good value for money; CD1 (Trios 1, 2 & 3) lasts 79:55 and CD2 (Trios 4 & 5) 78:41.
They obviously crammed as much into each disc as they could and I guess that's the reason for the savage cuts. I would prefer to pay for 3 cds and have the music in full. What a shame. Maybe Naxos will turn their attention to this music and give us a complete set at some time.
I rather doubt that the Edlian Trio are the guilty party here. It smacks much more of an editing/production decision.
Oh yes, with my vague "they" I didn't mean the artists made the decision. I guess the label/marketing people would maybe have judged what is the best way to sell these cds and whether curious buyers would pay for three cds or more likely for two, since Rubinstein is not so well known these days. Still, whatever the reason behind the product, it is a shame.
I have taken the liberty of listening to the Edlian's performances of the five Rubinstein trios to create the appended chart. I have noted the cuts in each movement. The notation may be read as follows:
"IV: 23-III-4" means "Fourth movement, page 23, third system, fourth bar". Each reference is to the appropriate score available from the IMSLP, for the convenience of the members.
I apologize for the impossible formatting. Nothing I could do could fix it once I reached the preview stage. The 21st Century and I are no friends.
Trio #1 in F, Op. 15, #1
II: 24-III-1 through 24-IV-8 16 bars
31-I-1 through 31-III-9 22 bars
--------
Total 38 bars
****************************************
Trio #2 in G minor, Op. 15, #2
I: 16-II-2 through 17-I-2 8 bars
18-II-3 through 18-III-1 2 bars
19-II-1 through 19-II-2 2 bars
--------
Subtotal 12 bars
II: 27-III-1 through 27-III-6 6 bars
--------
Subtotal 6 bars
III: 28-I-2 through 30-III-4 135 bars
36-III-5 through 36-IV-4 7 bars
37-II-2 through 37-III-3 8 bars
--------
Subtotal 150 bars
IV: 48-IV-2 through 49-I-3 7 bars
--------
Subtotal 7 bars
--------
Total 175 bars
***************************************
Trio #3 in B-flat, Op. 52
I: 17-I-5 through 17-III-2 12 bars --------
Subtotal 12 bars
IV: 48-IV-2 through 51-I-2 82 bars
--------
Subtotal 82 bars
---------
Total 94 bars
***************************************
Trio #4 in A minor, Op. 85
III: 54-II-3 through 55-I-5 16 bars
---------
Subtotal 16 bars
IV: 65-I-1 through 65-I-4 4 bars
66-I-1 through 67-IV-5 33 bars
80-I-1 through 82-II-4 32 bars
---------
Subtotal 69 bars
---------
Total 85 bars
***************************************
Trio #5 in C minor, Op. 108
No cuts
That's depressing. Back in the early LP era cuts were so common, and I would have thought that performers would have gotten over themselves and present the music AS WRITTEN. Too bad they did this. I'll probably get the set anyway, but dang it! why did they do that?
Quote from: mbhaub on Saturday 23 October 2010, 05:28
That's depressing. Back in the early LP era cuts were so common, and I would have thought that performers would have gotten over themselves and present the music AS WRITTEN. Too bad they did this. I'll probably get the set anyway, but dang it! why did they do that?
Can think of at
least two CD recordings besides this which also without mention cut/mangled the scores - Fellegi's of Medtner's sonata tragica on Marco Polo, and, I'm told, a recording by Toradze of Mussorgski's Pictures. I'd add the Koch recording of Liszt's St. Elizabeth but I don't know if that is a CD recording or a remaster of an LP recording; it's pretty seriously cut too (quite possibly cuts authorized by the composer, this is Liszt, after all. A little depressing, still, especially since the performance and recording are really so good in other ways and there's only a few other recordings of this rare and very lovely oratorio.)
Eric
This is very shocking indeed. It's almost a musical crime. The only positive thing is that in No. 5 there are no cuts. But... while listening I try to forget this knowledge and... I still enjoy very much of what I hear.
I had a very pleasant surprise tonight when I listened to Rubinstein's String Quartet no. 1 with rather low expectations! It is quite a strong work, both thematically and harmonically. What's more, it owes quite a bit less to contemporary Germanic models than I had expected! The first movement has a dramatic development section, the slow movement is melancholy and resigned, the hugely enjoyable scherzo is a rollicking tarantella with a chorale-like trio, and the finale is remarkable for its beautiful, trance-like secondary theme.
Can anyone who is familiar with Rubinstein's chamber music please point out which works are on the level of invention and inspiration of the first quartet? That would be greatly appreciated!
The Quintet for Piano & Winds is one of Rubinstein's most inspired creations. You might like to try that.
Thanks, Mark! I actually have heard the Quintet once (a couple years ago), but it was in the car and I, of course, wasn't paying close attention to the music. It was on a Russian Disc CD (coupled with the Viola Sonata) which I had checked out of the library, and, if I recall, the performance was rather poor. I see there are three other recordings of it on the Orfeo, Brana Records, and Dynamic labels. Which recording(s) do members recommend? :)
I have both the Consortium Classicim on Orfeo and Wolfgang Sawallisch and the Munich Residence Quintet on Calig, which may not be available new any longer. I tend to play the latter, as it is coupled with Rimsly-Korsakov's equally winning Quintet for the same forces.
The Calig recording is still available, but Amazon sellers are asking in excess of $20 for used copies. I read in the Rubinstein Piano Quartets thread that the first piano quartet is an arrangement of the piano and wind quintet, so I'll be sure to check out that Hyperion recording when it is released!
Quote from: LateRomantic75 on Sunday 19 January 2014, 14:37
Thanks, Mark! I actually have heard the Quintet once (a couple years ago), but it was in the car and I, of course, wasn't paying close attention to the music. It was on a Russian Disc CD (coupled with the Viola Sonata) which I had checked out of the library, and, if I recall, the performance was rather poor. I see there are three other recordings of it on the Orfeo, Brana Records, and Dynamic labels. Which recording(s) do members recommend? :)
I like the Orfeo, which is the only complete performance of the Quintet. All the others make cuts of one sort or another in the finale.
You should give the Viola Sonata another try. There is a very nice concert performance in good sound, video, and performance on You Tube, played before an appreciative audience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShVcbD_dJF8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShVcbD_dJF8)
Since you'll be on You Tube, here, in somewhat weaker sound and video, is a very convincing performance of the first, second, and fourth movements of the 3rd String Quartet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNa1Ps9HXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNa1Ps9HXU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D2BgoHCawQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D2BgoHCawQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsLtsz1zjOs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsLtsz1zjOs)