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#1

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Non-operatic Suppé world p...

Last post by Ilja - Today at 14:47

No, it isn't trash - you're right. However, in a way one is forced into deciding that it is when a critic as high-profile as Hurwitz tells us that it's a major find (my summary of his assessment) - because that's just nonsense.

As I said before, I listened to it again and, apart from some fetching orchestration and a few decent tunes, it just didn't do anything for me. You only have to listen to some of the composer's exciting overtures to notice the difference in quality. IMHO, of course.

Good point, I agree that the Sinfonia can't really compete with those. Or some other works: I listened to Il Ritorno del Marinaio a few weeks ago, and it seemed that a pretty good symphony was somehow stuck in there.

#2

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Non-operatic Suppé world p...

Last post by terry martyn - Today at 14:41

The themes derive from Duke Ernst's oeuvre. I think that's part of the problem.

#3

Composers & Music / Re: Did AI just kill classical...

Last post by Ilja - Today at 13:50

Well, there IS Siegfried Wagner's symphony in C of 1925, of course. Quite mature, and a pretty good piece in my view.

Scriabin as a Wagnerian is certainly a hot take.

#4

Composers & Music / Re: Did AI just kill classical...

Last post by Alan Howe - Today at 12:53

I've always wondered a mature Wagner symphony might sound like. Any offers from you AI whizz-kids out there? 

Oh, sorry. Scriabin wrote three in that idiom.

#5

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Non-operatic Suppé world p...

Last post by Alan Howe - Today at 12:49

No, it isn't trash - you're right. However, in a way one is forced into deciding that it is when a critic as high-profile as Hurwitz tells us that it's a major find (my summary of his assessment) - because that's just nonsense.

As I said before, I listened to it again and, apart from some fetching orchestration and a few decent tunes, it just didn't do anything for me. You only have to listen to some of the composer's exciting overtures to notice the difference in quality. IMHO, of course.

#6

Composers & Music / Re: Did AI just kill classical...

Last post by Ilja - Today at 12:21

But I think we're getting close to submitting any printed notation to such software and having it produce a reliable, decent quality audio rendition without too much user input at all.

If you are saying generating reality-quality other than midi-quality performance, then there won't be miserable circumstances like Ulrich Leykam "conducting" literally his own "Bayreuth Digital Orchestra" to accompany Naxos-Marco Polo's S. Wagner Sonnenflammen production.

Ooff. I listened to some samples. It sounds like it would have been way more straightforward to hire an actual orchestra given the technical work involved. But I don't know what circumstances led to them performing the work in this arrangement.

It should be added that while orchestral music can be made to sound somewhat realistic via technology with some effort these days, not even AI can seem to fake good vocals, never mind operaic singing voices to any believable level yet.

There are various generative AI engines today that have no issue producing somewhat convincing vocals, or instrumental music for that matter. It's just that "classical" music has not been the focal point for the best efforts sofar; rather, those have been directed at other, more popular genres. As an example, I just asked for a "gothic song about bananas" on Suno and got this - frighteningly realistic. Also witnessing AI developments in my own field I am convinced that, with time (and money), this technology could make great strides very quickly.

#7

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Non-operatic Suppé world p...

Last post by Mark Thomas - Today at 11:25

The Suppe is trash - I've just checked. IMHO, of course.

I've just re-listened too and I think that's rather harsh. Hurwitz's verdict is ridiculous, of course, but this time around I could hear more clearly Suppé's attempts at symphonic writing - the first movement in particular, and the quasi-fugal passage in the last. The second, slow, movement also develops into something a little more serious towards the end. It is clearly an attempt at a symphony but it's let down by Suppé's choice of thematic material (often trite, if melodic) which doesn't lend itself to development, just repetition. This, in conjunction with his colourful and sometimes bombastic orchestration, cheapens the whole thing. It's not trash, I did enjoy it more the third time around, but it's definitely not "one of the great, mid-century, Austro-German symphonies".

#8

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Music by Max d'Ollone (187...

Last post by Ilja - Today at 10:39

As is the Violin Concerto/Symphonic Poem Le Ménétrier (The Minstrel) from 1911.

Most of it I find very attractive, but unfortunately d'Ollone's orchestral works are rather difficult to get performed because of his unfortunate choices (in hindsight) of genre. The Fantaisie is too short at 13 minutes (alas, don't get me started about the demise of the Konzertstück); the scènes lyriques, orchestral songs, cantatas and chorales are uncommon genres for a modern concert hall; at just under 20 minutes, the wonderful symphonic poem Les villes maudites is really too long for the overture slot but too short to be the major orchestral piece of the evening (not even counting the required choir). Le Ménétrier may the only work I know of his to have a realistic shot at revival in the concert halls. That's a pity, because a lot of his music is tuneful and driven, yet contemplative in a way somewhere between Pierné and Tournemire. Of course, there's also quite a lot of chamber music, which is all just wonderful.

#9

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Non-operatic Suppé world p...

Last post by Ilja - Today at 10:19

I generally agree with what's being said here, but I do ask myself whether we - as a modern audience - are that well suited to judge this piece on its own merits. We simply lack experience with this subgenre of 19th-century theatrical music, which may sound very "trashy" to our ears. Hurwitz doesn't really help, because calling something "really a symphony" provokes comparison with what is a very different world of music; there was a very good reason why Suppé didn't want to do that and it goes well beyond the arguments mentioned by Hurwitz. Having said all that and liking Suppé's Fantasia more than (apparently) most of you do I still think it's hard to make the case that it's a major re-discovery. However, I do think it's an interesting piece.

His aesthetics is peculiar from time to time. He thought Pfitzner's PC, and by extension, all of his compositions are extremely boring.

Can't say I wholly disagree there, though.

#10

Recordings & Broadcasts / Re: Non-operatic Suppé world p...

Last post by Alan Howe - Today at 09:33

This is the problem with paying attention to one critic who (inevitably) will have his own enthusiasms and blind spots. I mean, I think Draeseke is as great as Brahms and can't stand Sullivan's Savoy operas, so it's hardly surprising to find that Hurwitz, even with all his vast experience, has his own oddities. Listen to him, by all means (I do too), but read other opinions if at all possible - and make up your own mind!