Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Friday 08 May 2015, 09:57

Title: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 08 May 2015, 09:57
...although it's a reconstruction from sketches for a 2nd PC:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/grieg-piano-concerto-in-a-orchestra-kerry-stratton-grand-piano.html (http://www.mdt.co.uk/grieg-piano-concerto-in-a-orchestra-kerry-stratton-grand-piano.html)
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 08 May 2015, 11:40
How interesting, and on two counts: firstly the existence, and now availability, of sketches for a second Grieg concerto. They may have been well known in musicological circles, but it's certainly news to me; we'll have to see how convincing is Evju's realisation. Secondly, is this the first orchestral recording from the Grand Piano label? Given the very open-minded approach to repertoire which this Naxos-family label seems to have (which I can certainly vouch for from my own experience of dealing with them), then I certainly hope it's a straw in the wind. Dare one hope that we could eventually see a rival for Hyperion's RPC series?
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: sdtom on Friday 08 May 2015, 15:24
I will definitely be interested.
Tom :)
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: TerraEpon on Friday 08 May 2015, 20:32
Well, it's known enough to have a catalog number, EG 120 (EG numbers start at 101 and are for pieces without Op. numbers).
My list mentions that it's in "fragments" but wasn't in the book I own....so it's probably a reletively recent (within 15 years) discovery.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: MartinH on Saturday 09 May 2015, 00:05
There's been a solo-piano arrangement of these sketches on IMSLP for some time. If you have serious piano skills it might be worth checking out, except it's non-PD in the US and EU so be sure you don't download it! ;)
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: pianoconcerto on Saturday 09 May 2015, 04:51
Years ago, Einar Steen-Nøkleberg recorded 3:45 of solo piano fragments from the Grieg b minor, EG120, on Naxos 8.553400.  In my online discography of works for piano and orchestra, I also list 8 piano-and-orchestra "reconstructions" of (or pieces based on) the Grieg Second that have been recorded (most live or for broadcast), including scores by Beeckmans, Beliayev, Colla, Edgar, Evju, Kenmuir, Nichifor, and Powers.  I am familiar with the new Evju recording and highly recommend it.

I have not heard this CD's Grainger version of Op. 16.  I was involved in the BIS recording of the original 1868 score and, thus, studied Grieg's autograph.  I recall noticing some significant changes in the Grainger, such as the shortening of Grieg's sometimes long, drone-like pedals (e.g., at the beginning of the third movement; cf. the original on BIS 619).  Many pianists even play the left-hand accompaniment detached, though all editions published during Grieg's lifetime include the drone-like effect.  Whether the change was Grieg's (late in life) or Grainger's I don't know.  Hopefully, the liner notes will identify other specific changes made in the Grainger edition (which was published in the USA by G. Schirmer and is what many performers here played from, myself included).
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 11 May 2015, 08:28
You can hear the sketches elaborated by different hands here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1xsGeoe9g). All a bit clumsy IMHO. The original sketches themselves are here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBU4GgfXaRA).
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Ilja on Monday 11 May 2015, 12:42
The Evju reconstruction, that was also used for the recording Alan mentioned, can be found here, by the way:

1st movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fffd8R7c-U&list=PL0B41CB21F27D6503 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fffd8R7c-U&list=PL0B41CB21F27D6503)
2nd movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eo-g5FySAQ&index=2&list=PL0B41CB21F27D6503 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eo-g5FySAQ&index=2&list=PL0B41CB21F27D6503)
3rd movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYeI51LeGL0&index=3&list=PL0B41CB21F27D6503 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYeI51LeGL0&index=3&list=PL0B41CB21F27D6503)

I think it was an entry in the same competition that also produced the Beeckmans re-'imaginging'. Interesting to hear them side-by-side, although Evju's version seems by far the better of the two – even if it sounds more Rachmaninoffian than Griegesque in places.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: sdtom on Monday 11 May 2015, 19:46
Quote from: Ilja on Monday 11 May 2015, 12:42
The Evju reconstruction, that was also used for the recording Alan mentioned, can be found here, by the way:



I think it was an entry in the same competition that also produced the Beeckmans re-'imaginging'. Interesting to hear them side-by-side, although Evju's version seems by far the better of the two – even if it sounds more Rachmaninoffian than Griegesque in places.
Are those really words?
Tom
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 11 May 2015, 20:15
Seems McGuffin-y, to me...
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Music33 on Tuesday 12 May 2015, 00:47
For those who are interested to listen to the various "realizations" of these sketches (some of them are close to what Grieg could have done ; some other ones are written in a totally different style) :
Laurent Beeckmans : Piano Concerto in B minor : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1xsGeoe9g
Vladimir Beliayev : Piano Concerto No. 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiJ0v60zts8
Alberto Colla : Piano Concerto No. 1 (warning, modernist) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2VRDA-a1q0
Alison Edgar : Fantasia in B minor : I don't know a recording
Helge Evju : Piano Concerto in B minor : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fffd8R7c-U
Callum Kenmuir : Rhapsody on themes by Grieg : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBW1-_pJ8CY
Serban Nichifor : Concerto GRIEGoriano : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2BUU7A9FSk
Daniel Powers : Concerto "Reliquary" : https://www.mediafire.com/?klbo2pe40d68fm3
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 12 May 2015, 09:23
Hi, thanks. This'll be a good way to spend a lost hour or two somewhere soon!  ;)
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 12 May 2015, 10:44
I feel quite ashamed that I wasn't even aware of the existence of the sketches, never mind all those realisations/reconstructions etc.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 12 May 2015, 11:05
Me neither.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 12 May 2015, 12:50
I'm in the same boat, I must admit.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 12 May 2015, 15:59
Sackcloths anyone? You can supply your own ashes...
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 30 June 2015, 22:30
It's not a reconstructed masterpiece, this. Sure, it has some moments of great beauty, but you'd be hard put to recognise its origins in sketches by Grieg. However, it's as good as many of the entries in Hyperion's RPC series and it's an enjoyable listen (along the lines of, say, the Warsaw Concerto).
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 01 July 2015, 03:05
I had the opportunity to listen to the b minor from Evju today and I agree with Alan it's a nice concerto along the same lines as the Warsaw. It's nothing more.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 01 July 2015, 07:23
But don't let me put anyone off buying it!
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 01 July 2015, 23:42
nor I. Some people like these sort of piano works
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 02 July 2015, 10:09
I wish people would put more effort into orchestrating works which we know from the piano or two piano scores, and/or contemporary accounts of their performances, are worthwhile, but for which the orchestral material is missing. Works like the pianoforte concerto by Siboni or Chaminade's Les Amazones. Please excuse the digression, but I thought the point was worth making.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 02 July 2015, 10:12
I agree, Gareth.
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 02 July 2015, 11:39
Or, in my honest opinion, if one's going to go with Grieg because his name sells (deservedly; not begrudging), promote terrific but relatively little-known works like his late psalms (ok, admittedly more a job for the promoter or a different kind of performer, not the pianist).  (I do think it's nice to hear those on BBC/Euroclassic Notturno overnight :).)
Title: Re: Grieg's PC in B minor - yes, really...
Post by: chill319 on Friday 10 July 2015, 06:14
Quote...terrific but relatively little-known works like his late psalms

Been enamoured of those works for years. Glad to see I'm not the only one.