Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: JP on Thursday 26 January 2023, 05:23

Title: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: JP on Thursday 26 January 2023, 05:23
New release from Capriccio label featuring the orchestral works of a mid-to-late romantic Austro-Germanic composer. The excerpted sound clip conveys the distinct impression that this repertoire hails from the era of the more conservative leaning Bruch-Reinecke-Gernsheim-Draeseke-Raff genre... 

http://www.capriccio.at/georg-goltermann

Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 26 January 2023, 09:26
Thanks for this.

Just a couple of things: Draeseke doesn't really belong with Bruch or Reinecke. Although he continued to write in the classical forms, his idiom is decidedly more radical, along 'New German' lines. Raff was also more of a 'one off', not fitting comfortably with either Liszt/Wagner or the conservatives.

Goltermann's Symphony was published by Bretkopf & Härtel in 1852, so it's barely post-Schumann (as regards the latter's symphonies).
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 28 January 2023, 20:14
The Goltermann concerto is very attractive, if somewhat lightweight. I would like to hear his other cello concertos (there are 8 in all). Fleisher have scores and parts for Nos. 1-4 and 7 & 8. According to WorldCat, parts for No. 5 are held by the Artesis Plantijn Hogeschool, Antwerp. I have not located the parts for no. 6 yet, though I haven't searched very hard and they may still be available from the publsher, Schott, for all I know.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Holger on Saturday 28 January 2023, 21:16
Goltermann's Fourth Cello Concerto (in G Major, Op. 65) is a sort of student concerto (I played it myself in my cello lessons years ago). Not that difficult but a tuneful and attractive piece, something you can learn from and at the same time just enjoy.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 29 January 2023, 01:40
Checking SBN (Italy), which lists the Orchester-Bibliothek parts of Op.14 (and Respighi's "Elaborazione orchestrale" of that same concerto, a 1923 manuscript...), for example, and maybe might have some of the other concertos (edit: still looking for no.6, but they have published several parts-sets in Italian libraries including no.5.)- having a look...
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 29 January 2023, 01:59
Also worth searching maybe - RSL (Russia)..
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 29 January 2023, 02:07
Oh, here's what seems to be the answer and the orchestration: rentable through Carl Fischer of New York. (https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/725335638)
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 29 January 2023, 02:13
Also, FLP does have no.5: see Concertstück Op.76 (https://catalog.freelibrary.org/Record/915652). They just don't call it concerto no.5. It's still the same work!
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 29 January 2023, 09:11
Ah, well done, Eric. I said I hadn't looked very hard. Was wrong-footed by Fleisher's description of no. 5 as Concertstuck. Should have checked opus number.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Richard Moss on Sunday 29 January 2023, 10:26
Does anyone know the UK availability of this CD?  Can't see it listed on PRESTO, AMAZON or Europadisc.

Cheers

Richard
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 29 January 2023, 11:51
Capriccio doesn't seem to say when the CD will be available anywhere, and neither does any other site?
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 29 January 2023, 14:07
No, there's no release date yet.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 02 March 2023, 20:34
Presto Music now has a release date of 7 April 2023. (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9464700--georg-goltermann-cello-concerto-no-1-op-14-symphony-op-20-romance-ballade)
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 02 March 2023, 22:18
Amazon (UK) has the same release date:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Georg-Goltermann-Concerto-Symphony-Romance/dp/B0BVTFRS22/ref=sr_1_2?crid=PC8OO2MRBKOF&keywords=goltermann+capriccio&qid=1677795440&sprefix=goltermann%2Caps%2C127&sr=8-2
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 02 March 2023, 22:22
The blurb at Presto reads:
<<The Symphony in A minor, which was both well received and prized by Goltermann himself, is written in an attractive, post-Brahmsian vein, especially the exquisite, lively Scherzo with its sweeping Trio.>>

Post-Brahmsian? It was written in 1852. Oops!
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 02 March 2023, 22:38
and published in or by December of that year, I think...
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 02 March 2023, 22:42
Oops indeed, then!
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 02 March 2023, 23:34
also, performed in Prague in 1854, but probably in Hannover in 1853, perhaps earlier- looking through issues of NZM to find incipits in reviews to confirm that it's in A minor and not, as I previously thought, in A major...
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 03 March 2023, 12:11
So, definitely pre-Brahms, then!
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: hyperdanny on Friday 03 March 2023, 14:22
Albeit too brief, the Jpc sound samples I found very interesting: I expected something Mendelssohnian, but to me it's Schubertian , the darker side of of the Tragic and Unfinished.
Not pedestrian, though, or uninteresting, especially the first movement.
i'll buy it.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: terry martyn on Friday 03 March 2023, 15:02
I already have Goltermann's Third Cello Concerto and will be glad to get his First.   Experiencing so many difficulties getting anything correctly delivered from the UK to Spain, so will probably order with jpc. Cheaper too.......
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 03 March 2023, 16:00
Kudos once again to Howard Griffiths for resurrecting such neglected music.

Excerpts here:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/konzert-fuer-violoncello-und-orchester-1/hnum/11170489
Sounds later than Schubert to me, but not by much! Very nice stuff, though. My copy's on order too.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: hyperdanny on Monday 06 March 2023, 11:30
Talking about the Polish Romantic Symphonies release, we commented about the irrationality of different release dates.
The Goltermann is an even stranger case: the Capriccio website does not give a date, Jpc says it's going to be available in April.
So , we are talking about an Austrian label, and the lead retailer of the "German world"...they should be the first, but they don't have it (yet)
Last Friday I found it available on my local Amazon, via Marketplace, through a Greek retailer that I have used dozens of times, always top notch.
They said thay have 9 in stock, ordered Friday, posted today.  Stranger things.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: hyperdanny on Tuesday 14 March 2023, 17:08
I received it yesterday directly from..Athens.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 14 March 2023, 22:24
Great. The postal service is clearly working well, although this hasn't aways been the case in my experience over recent months.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 15 March 2023, 08:09
Personally, I'm happy to wait. I have such a backlog of new recordings to listen to that not adding to the pile is a real priority.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 15 March 2023, 11:05
Agreed. Piles are a real nuisance. Of unopened CDs, of course ;)
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 15 March 2023, 12:50
I've never heard of breaking out in hives of unopened CDs. Which proves naught or ought.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: John Boyer on Wednesday 15 March 2023, 14:09
Quote from: hyperdanny on Monday 06 March 2023, 11:30Last Friday I found it available on my local Amazon, via Marketplace, through a Greek retailer that I have used dozens of times, always top notch.

Agreed!  I've used them too and have been very happy with them.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: hyperdanny on Wednesday 15 March 2023, 14:55
Very early impressions from a single listening, and as such take them with a grain of salt.
The cello concerto is nice and tuneful but not much more than that, a very typical "Romantic cello concerto by a virtuoso-composer".
It's concise, a virtue, and definitely worthwhile, but nothing that Davidoff or Romberg haven't done with more personality.
The symphony is a very different story: I found it gripping. Not exactly sophisticated, maybe, but stormy and dramatic, and also quite individual in places.
The ORF Orchestra playing is pretty splendid, the kind of advocacy the music needs.
Howard Griffiths' command of the Unsungs is beyond discussion at this point, but this time he's even better than usual, I hear an an extra quid of passion.
The recording is completely to my taste: detailed and impactful. Gross generalization: it could be a little too "in your face" for some listeners, especially British: the fabled "mid hall perspective" that the Gramophone people love to tout.....this ain't, and I am thankful for that.
All in all , a very worthy purchase for me.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 15 March 2023, 15:11
The Symphony sounds very promising. Thanks for the snap review
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: terry martyn on Tuesday 11 April 2023, 11:45
The Goltermann arrived on the same day as the Berger. An entirely different animal. This symphony is definitely one for the concert halls,rousing,lively,with a memorable Trio, and pacy Finale.  I can imagine Rietz and Reinecke enjoying conducting it, as it is rooted in the Contemporaries of Schumann mould, and the Leipzig concertgoer would have gone home with a smile on his face, without having felt the need for any profound thinking.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 11 April 2023, 11:57
Yes, that pretty much sums it up, Terry, but one doesn't always want profundity and this is an attractive and enjoyable Symphony, as are the Cello Concerto and the other two short works for cello and orchestra. It's a CD to which I shall return with pleasure.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Richard Moss on Tuesday 11 April 2023, 14:10
Just downloaded this from PRESTO over the week-end - what a most enjoyable listen (on my third hearing and still liking it all). for me, life's too short to listen to music you don't enjoy (perhaps a paid critic may think otherwise).  From his other pieces up on YT, I'd always imagined a light-handed approach to all his works but the symphony sounds quite profound to my uneducated ears.

Pity Capriccio (et al) don't make the liner notes available for downloads as I find they help me understand much better what I am listening to. Hopefully if this CD sells as well as it sounds other works may follow.

Hope you all had a peaceful and enjoyable Easter break.

Best wishes

Richard
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 12 April 2023, 09:31
The key word for me with Goltermann is always "charming" - an often-underestimated quality in music appreciation. It's perhaps not the most profound, but I'm never bored and like Mark, I'll probably return to this a few times in the future. Glad to have bought it.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 12 April 2023, 13:01
I agree. The sort of craft, in knowing how to construct memorable, likeable and distinctive things, that has me returning to lovely chamber music by Rheinberger, e.g., is not something I underestimate either.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 12 April 2023, 16:13
QuoteThe key word for me with Goltermann is always "charming" - an often-underestimated quality in music appreciation.

Agree entirely, Ilja. I hope they record his other concertos which, from the little I know of them (either aurally or viewing the scores), are equally charming and melodious.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: jonah on Friday 14 April 2023, 15:45
Would the other Goltermann cello concertos not be ideal material for Hyperion's Romantic Cello Concertos' series . . . if there are to be any more
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 14 April 2023, 18:48
Very likely - but who knows what will happen with Hyperion?
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 14 April 2023, 18:58
Only time will tell. I'm not optimistic, though.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 14 April 2023, 21:34
Quite. Neither am I.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 19 April 2023, 15:50
My copy arrived today - and I must say that the Symphony turns out to be a rather more robust and imposing piece than I was expecting. It's exceedingly well done here by Howard Griffiths and the ORF Vienna Radio Symphony Orchestra. It ought to be a big seller - and it packs a lot into its half-hour duration.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 20 April 2023, 08:27
I've played Goltermann's Symphony several times now and have liked it more each time. It's not a work of genius but it's inventive, is memorable and in this performance generally rattles along at a cracking pace. Altogether a really enjoyable listen.
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 20 April 2023, 09:03
Agreed. Yet another piece to refresh the jaded palate...
Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 21 April 2023, 15:06
I was trying to think which symphony Goltermann's most reminded me of - and it finally occured to me that it was Mendelssohn's early 1st Symphony, completed in 1824, i.e. nearly 30 years before the Goltermann.

I'm not trying to belittle Goltermann's Symphony (I actually rather like it), but it might explain why it disappeared - i.e because it offered nothing new. Today, of course, this doesn't really matter. We can appreciate it for what it is.

Title: Re: Georg Goltermann -Cello Concerto No. 1 · Symphony in A minor · Romance · Ballade
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 21 April 2023, 18:53
It's fascinating to compare Goltermann's Symphony with Mirecki's from just a few years later. Although born 33 years earlier, Mirecki (IMHO) produced a much more original work, probably because he wasn't so heavily influenced by the mainstream of Austro-German symphony-writing. Whereas Goltermann looks back to Mendelssohn, Mirecki (in his finale) looks forward to Brahms.