I cannot at present think of any symphonic finales from unsung composers that contain "big tunes" like those featured in Beethoven 3 & 9 Brahms 1 and Sibelius 2.
I realise that such a feature is not necessary for the all round success of a symphony, but I'd be interested to hear of any examples from our unsung heroes.
Parry no.4
Steve
Maybe I don't know what you mean by "big tune" but hear are just a few that have one, and can have the same cathartic effect.
Tchaikovsky symphonies 3 & 5
Elgar symphony 1
Franck d minor
Glazunov 5
Rachmaninoff symphony 2
Beach symphony
Personally, I don't think the Beethoven 3rd has that great of a tune. It sure was useful for variation, but it's not all that powerful.
Atterburg 8. It really doesn't get much better.
Gliere 2, Kabalevsky 2, and (though not an unsung, the piece is) Rimsky-Korsakov 1 also come to mind.
Gotta love those Russians I guess...
Oh and I guess Myaskovsky 19, though it's for Wind Ensemble. And for something a bit more modern but still fully in 'our' idiom, there's James Barnes's 3rd...though as far as wind ensemble pieces go that's probably not all that unsung.
Joly Braga Santos - Symphony No. 4 - one of the unsung masterpieces of the 20th Century - includes a terrific finale
The Sibelius Fifth is another.
Bruch No.2
Steve
Try Gernsheim 2 and 4. Magnificent!
If friends don't know them yet, the Arte Nova set of Gernsheim's symphonies - at bargain price - is an absolute must.
Eggert's C-major symphony finale.
Eggert's C-minor symphony finale.
Rubinstein 5
I have immediately ordered the 4 Gernsheim symphonies and will let you know what I think of it. Hopefully another "trouvaille" for me, just like Rufinatscha!
The Gernsheim symphonies are wonderful works.
In the same vein, I'd recommend the four by Victor Bendix. Some gorgeous lyricism and first-class orchestrations. (PS - the story of Bendix's life unfolded like a Grand Guignol horror film, with lovers, guns, and whatnot!)
The problem with the set of Bendix symphonies on Danacord is the very poor playing of the orchestra from Omsk (where?) - thin, often out-of-tune strings, poor ensemble, etc. - as well as bathroom-acoustics recording. You can get a fair idea of some very interesting music from the set, but it badly needs replacing with a set done by a proper orchestra. The Omsk band is pretty amateurish, unfortunately. Only recommended with extreme caution for some interesting music...
Many thanks, folks, for all those suggestions. I already have the Parry & Gernsheim CDs, so I must give them another spin. I also have the score of Gernsheim No 2 ready to copy out into Noteworthy if I live long enough, but there are so many other scores waiting for the same treatment! For most of the rest it looks like yet another visit to my piggy bank.
Parry No3. Do we mean a big, memorable tune ANYWHERE in the finale; or only in a glorious peroration(the chorale type ending).? Disappointingly, the Parry 4 finale tune doesnt come back complete in an emblazoned fashion, only in part; though its effective in a subtler way!
Steve
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 01 May 2009, 21:36
The problem with the set of Bendix symphonies on Danacord is the very poor playing of the orchestra from Omsk (where?) - thin, often out-of-tune strings, poor ensemble, etc. - as well as bathroom-acoustics recording. You can get a fair idea of some very interesting music from the set, but it badly needs replacing with a set done by a proper orchestra. The Omsk band is pretty amateurish, unfortunately. Only recommended with extreme caution for some interesting music...
I agree that a better performance/recording would be nice - but I disagree with the conclusion that "caution" is part of the equation. After all, these are more than
interesting symphonies; they certainly can stand with, for example, Gernsheim's, in my opinion. So, do we turn up our noses at the only recording extant, or do we listen, enjoy and be introduced to some fine unsung music notwithstanding the perceived deficiencies in the delivery? For anyone posting on this site, the Bendix symphonies should be heard - and the caution definitely, in this case, ought to be thrown to the (wood) winds. :P
I'd say that appreciation of the music doesn't exclude being slightly cheesed off with the quality of the present recording - I know that for me it didn't in the case of the Bendix symphonies.
Other suggestions: Von Klenau 1, Martucci 2, Braga Santos 1
Fine. You be "cheesed off" and avoid the only present recording of the Bendix symphonies, thereby never having the chance to hear them. Meanwhile I'll enjoy the lovely music, ragged performance and all.
The Martucci First Symphony has a powerful finale - may not include the required "Big Tune" - but packs a punch nevertheless.
Orff, I certainly didn't intend to 'cheese' you off. But the point is that although I'm grateful for every work that is lifted from oblivion, doing it properly dramatically increases the chances of it remaining 'lifted'. The two recent recordings of the Jadassohn Piano Concerto are a good case in point: it was only after listening to the superior Hyperion rendition that I began to realise what an enjoyable piece it was.
And it is exactly my appreciation of Bendix' symphonies that makes me wish they would receive better treatment. The Arte Nova set of Gernsheim symphonies blew me over not merely because of their compositional quality, but also because they enjoyed such committed performances.
Stenhammar's 2nd symphony.
Dvorak's 2nd. One BIG tune and umpteen other great ones. A whistle fest...
Does anyone else know the tune to which I referred in Parry 4?; it appears right in the middle of the finale. It is so poignant, full of dignity and sadness; it reappears at the end in a Neilsenesque peroration.
Steve
The Bendix set is truly sub-standard in its execution - both performances and recording - so caution is definitely in order for anyone intending to purchase it. However, I did actually buy the set and I agree that the music has real substance. But it's definitely a case of 'caveat emptor', lest anyone thinks that the set will give unalloyed pleasure...
In contrast, the Gernsheim set on Arte Nova is vastly superior in every respect. It's a shame - the Bendix symphonies deserved better.
A second problem in this case is that labels will normally not record such symphonies if someone else already has. It's a collector's market, and putting out a second recording is a business risk. So if someone has done a dodgy recording of a given work, it's unlikely that a potentially better outfit will touch it - neither of which does much service to the works themselves.
This doesn't seem to be the case with the Spohr symphonies where 2 rival sets are in the course of being issued by different record firms.
I didn't say it never happened, just that it was unlikely. There have been cases in which this has happened, but usually either because of new insights into music (the Sterling Raff VC1, for instance, or the Stenhammar PC1) or after a few years had passed and labels saw an opportunity to offer a superior product (... than the Marco Polo offerings, for example.
In the case of the Spohrs I suspect (Gareth?) that had both firms known what the other was doing, they would have done things differently. From a business point of view it is not smart.
Regarding Bendix Symphonies, I downloaded 2 and 4. I quite like No.2; fast movements pretty manic and zany; with a lush horn melody in the slow movement.
But, I concur, what is going on with that (?Ormsk?Omsk?) orchestra?. The slight edge to Mps does not help, but it is by no means just that! The old Vox orchestras I could cope with- thin, scrappy violins, with a bit of iffy general intonation; but you could easily grasp the melodies. But, an orchestra like this playing music where the harmony is so crucial; late Romantic and chromatic, so that it has an edgy shimmer to it, a bit like some Reger. I am ALMOST certain that is there in the music itself; but the poor intonation and shimmering recording make you almost think its like listening to an electronic SAMPLE of an orchestra. ???Will give it another try!
I had a slightly analogous experience listening to a selection of 50s and 60s orchestra selections of Ronald Binge short pieces. They have "layered" Mantovani string writing; which results in what, at the time, was meant to give a "cascading" sensation. This means,of course, each string line is very thin and poorly in tune; and again there is a glassy, ethereal sound, so that my initial response went from "yuk" to entering a low-level trance state.
Reminded me of an earlier electronic instrument, the melatron; which can only produce one note at a time and has a slightly wavering pitch, but is nonetheless haunting.
Perhaps these what are really just out-of-tune performances; but I feel some other, slightly rarified haunting musical genre has been almost created-unintentionally. I am letting my flight of fancy meander somewhat, but this was the emotional effect of the Binge and Bendix "versions"
Thoughts.
Steve
The Omsk band is just plain duff and the recording glassy and mushy all at the same time. It's probably the worst modern commercial release I have ever heard, although I can think of some others that would run it close.
As Ilja pointed out, the problem is that, as far as other labels are concerned, the Bendix symphonies have been done. Trouble is, they've actually been mangled and no-one else is likely to put any money into re-doing them properly.
So, the lesson is this: if you're going to record something unusual, it'd better be good!! There's unlikely to be a second chance...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 12 May 2009, 16:28
The Omsk band is just plain duff and the recording glassy and mushy all at the same time. It's probably the worst modern commercial release I have ever heard, although I can think of some others that would run it close.
Really? I've heard plenty. There's a recording from like 1993 of, I think, Khachartuian's Cello Concerto and Cello Rhapsody that was on Olympia that was...well it was really really bad. The Bendix at least had decent sound quality even if it's a bit...mushy as you say.
There are two candidates for 'worst release' that spring to mind: one of the MacDowell piano concertos (NOT the Naxos one, a more obscure label) in which soloist, orchestra, conductor and engineers conspired to create something utterly dismal, and a privately released recording of Alexandre Levy's Symphony in E (a Brazilian work from around 1870, I think) from a Brazilian amateur orchestra (Orquestra Filarmonia - Paulo Maron) that just beggars belief.
I think I know the MacDowell release you're talking about. I forget the name of the artists involved, but wasn't it an American pianist who was introducing both MacDowell concertos to Bulgaria? I seem to recall that the wonderful final chord of the first concerto (in which the orchestra plays a sharp staccato chord in unison with the piano, leaving the piano to sustain the chord into silence) was literally recomposed into the standard "sustained orchestral chord with drumroll", turning a totally unique moment in the literature into a cliche. I'd venture a guess that the conductor of the Sofia Symphony (or whatever the orchestra was) was the probable guilty party. There's another moment towards the end of the 2nd concerto where something, I know not what, happens, and it sounds like an entire bank of microphones simply drops out.
I have both MacDowell's PC's played by Vivian Rivkin and the Vienna Opera Orchestra conducted by Dean Dixon on a CD of the MCA label (1992). Although those performers don't look obscure to me, it sounds like a re-release of a re-release or something. After hearing both concertos a few times some years ago, I don't dare to give it another try ever again. But maybe I am not supposed to complain, because it's a recording of 1958...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 12 May 2009, 16:28
The Omsk band is just plain duff and the recording glassy and mushy all at the same time. It's probably the worst modern commercial release I have ever heard, although I can think of some others that would run it close.
As Ilja pointed out, the problem is that, as far as other labels are concerned, the Bendix symphonies have been done. Trouble is, they've actually been mangled and no-one else is likely to put any money into re-doing them properly.
So, the lesson is this: if you're going to record something unusual, it'd better be good!! There's unlikely to be a second chance...
There
will be a second chance if a post like this can find its way into the hands of Bo Hyttner or Klaus Heymann, or someone else of their ilk.
No, Jim: it's 'fat chance', not second chance, I'm afraid.
How about the Symphonies of Wilhelm Peterson-Berger. I just heard his Symphony no. 5 'Solitudo'. A very catch Opening. On the whole a very delightful experience. Haven't heard his other works tough. Any word on his other symphonies
Great, underappreciated works in my view. A bit unorthodox in build-up, maybe. In my view, the 5th and 3rd are the best ones. I quite like the 4th in a flippant sort of way.
My favourites among the Peterson Berger symphonies are nos 2,3 and 5.
Alan, after being so overwhelmed by Draeseke's piano sonata (a real gem!) it's time for me to try and buy his Symphonia Tragica. Which performance or label do you recommend?
The performance of Draeseke 3 on cpo is better played than the one on MDG - so it's Weigle on cpo for me. That said, the performances themselves are pretty similar.
Here is a symphony which is getting under my skin. It's my latest acquisition: Draeseke' third, the Symphonia Tragica.
The opening andante is almost Beethoven-like, but already after two minutes the music develops into an allegro risoluto which reminds me of Raff. But not for long. This symphony is full of captivating tunes and interesting developments. A beautiful slow movement and lively scherzo, but the magical movement is the fourth. The peaceful opening doesn't give you the feeling that something is going to happen. However, towards the end the symphony is accelerating to a climax which ends unexpectedly very serene. Wow, what a coda.
This Draeseke has really surprised me in a very positive sense. Highly original, perhaps influenced by certain contemporaries, but it stands on its own. It makes me eager to hear the other 3 symphonies, but I understand that the Symphonia Tragica is Draeseke's magnum opus. Alan, will I be disappointed if I buy the other symphonies? Please advice.
I'll second Stenhammer 2nd.
Stanford 3 (makes you proud to be Irish)
John K Paine 2 (a big chorale with New England hymn tune written all over it!)
Hi Peter,
I doubt whether you would be disappointed with Draeseke 1 or 2 - No.2 is certainly a masterpiece and No.1 has a just magnificent slow movement (best realised by Hanson on MDG). No.4, the Comica, is a one-off - very original, very personal, but quirky. I'd buy No.2 on cpo (you get the lovely Serenade too), Nos.1 & 4 on cpo - and, if you can afford it, No.1 on MDG (because you'll have the better performance of the slow movement).
Quote from: edurban on Saturday 25 July 2009, 02:06
Stanford 3 (makes you proud to be Irish)
I cannot say such a thing, Edurban, because I'm "utterly Dutch". ;)
But unfortunately there is hardly any memorable symphonic work written by a Dutch romantic composer to be pround of (sorry, Ilja). Maybe the E minor symphony by Johannes Verhulst (1816-1891), but although the music is pleasant, it's hardly a novelty. Quite someone else is Daniël de Lange (1841-1918), who wrote two symphonies, of which only the first in C minor survived, released by Sterling (which is indeed a label of discovery). In another topic I might come back to Daniël de Lange, whose brother Samuel (1840-1911) was a more prolific composer.
Thanks for your good advice, Alan. I will certainly buy both cpo discs, but maybe in a later stage the mgd disc as well. This is because the 1st is coupled with the PC and I already have that concerto on Hyperion.
Have you tried the 3rd Symphony by Röntgen or Nos. 1 & 2 by Van Gilse (all on cpo)? Marvellous stuff there! Try the excerpts on jpc...
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fb2168f227aec203db41480801eeeed3/cpo/detail/-/art/Julius-R%F6ntgen-Symphonie-Nr-3/hnum/2727226 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fb2168f227aec203db41480801eeeed3/cpo/detail/-/art/Julius-R%F6ntgen-Symphonie-Nr-3/hnum/2727226) (tracks 1-4)
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fb2168f227aec203db41480801eeeed3/cpo/detail/-/art/Jan-van-Gilse-Symphonien-Nr-1-2/hnum/9664777 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fb2168f227aec203db41480801eeeed3/cpo/detail/-/art/Jan-van-Gilse-Symphonien-Nr-1-2/hnum/9664777)
Many thanks, Alan, for the tip. I already have the Rontgen No 3 and agree that its Splendid stuff. I may now be tempted to use my JPC voucher on the Van Gilse symphonies.
By the way, I see that Europadisc have a special offer on CPO records which ends on the last day of this month.
Thanks Alan, for your reminder. I was definitely to quick with my opinion. These are lovely works.