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I was wondering what American composers the members enjoyed? I suppose almost everyone would name Aaron Copeland, Leonard Bernstein and Ferde Grofé, but how many would name George Chadwick, Howard Hanson, David Diamond? Or maybe there are some others that you think are worth a listen. Who would they be?
Kevin
Arthur Foote.
Never heard of them, I'm afraid :-[. Are they romantic composers like Edward MacDowell and Amy Beach? I very much like her PC. And I think Louis Moreau Gottschalk deserves to be (re)discovered as an American romantic composer of mainly beautiful piano music.
George Frederick Bristow and John Knowles Paine. I particularly like Bristow's Symphony in F sharp minor on Chandos - marvellous Mendelssohnian stuff!
Quote from: Kevin Pearson on Saturday 06 June 2009, 04:53
I suppose almost everyone would name Aaron Copeland, Leonard Bernstein and Ferde Grofé, but how many would name George Chadwick, Howard Hanson, David Diamond?
I prefer Chadwick, Hanson, and Diamond to Copeland, Bernstein, or Grofé.
And I would add Samuel Barber, Marion Bauer, George Gershwin, Philip Glass, Harold Shapero, Michael Torke.
Barber wrote some fine music, including his "over-played for good reason" Adagio for Strings and violin concerto. I like Howard Hanson's music. Arthur Foote's chamber music has always been my favorite American, and Amy Beach penned some nice pieces. I like Bernstein's Broadway-derived music, but not much else.
Never was too excited about Copland, and for some reason Paine just seems like the pages Beethoven rejected in the process of writing his symphonies, innocuous but uninspiring. Similarly, Gottschalk hasn't really caught my fancy.
I have not yet heard enough Still. He's so highly regarded that I need to listen to more of his music. I like David Diamond's music, but I'm not sure it is melodic enough to appeal to the romantic music crowd.
Gershwin is by far the American composer that I play more often than any other, followed closely by Arthur Foote.
All that said, I'll ask - What qualifies as "American"? Do you mean only people who were born in the U.S.? What about Latin America and South American?
And if you meant the U.S. only, what about composers who were not born in the U.S., but who immigrated to the U.S. After all, the U.S. is the land of immigrants.
If I were to use those broader criteria, select the one composer who immigrated to the U.S., lived, worked and died in the U.S., became a U.S. citizen and is buried in the U.S., you might be surprised at who that is -- Sergei Rachmaninoff.
Same applies to Stravinsky, Dave. And one thing you guys - although the name is pronounced COPEland, there's no "e". It's spelled Copland, like the old Sylvester Stallone movie. And some of those composers from the 20th Century aren't really "Romantic", although I believe Diamond is a "Neoromantic". We do try to concentrate on the style, here, for those of you who are new to the site. Speaking of immigrant Romantic composers, the name Leopold Damrosch got quite a bit of attention at the old site. How 'bout them violin concertos and that symphony for an enterprising label?
Thank you, Jim, for policing our posts.
Sylvester Stallone made a movie about communities of practice? Cool! Was it in English?
Look it up on ImDb, Dave. Copland (or Cop Land) was a 1997 film in which Sly attempted to return to more character, less action-based roles. He plays a sheriff in a New Jersey town populated mainly by members of the NYPD. It was directed by James Mangold, and had an all-star cast, including Robert DeNiro, Ray Liotta and Jeanine Garofalo.
Hi all
Thanks for the reminder about Leopold Damrosch, Jiml. There has been earlier discussion of his vioin concertos - they can be traced on archived threads (when it is safe to check them out).
I have uncovered further information since then. Here it is.
He composed four concerted works for the violin and they are given rather high praise by Swalin, Toskey and (I think -will double check) Emery. Several years ago a violinist mate played through the difficult solo part of his D Minor concerto for me. Superb. All four concertos are very large scale, with fine, grand orchestration which impressed Toskey in particular .
The works are as follows:
Konzertstuck in E Minor, probably 1860s or early 1870s, solo and orchestral score published later by Schuberth, Leipzig (1879), solo and piano score in Library of Congress
Concerto No 1 in G Major, date uncertain - possibly not published
Concerto No 2 in F Sharp Minor, composed in New York 1877. The holograph score (orchestral parts as well) was in the hands of Walter Damrosch (Leopold's son ) in 1941, when Swalin read it through and wrote his anaysis. Heaven knows where it is now.
Concerto No 3 in D Minor, published by Bote and Bock, Berlin (1878), probably in the year of composition. Solo and piano score in the Newberry Library, Chicago. AND NOTE - in 1941 the full solo and orchestral score was in the Library of Congress in 1941. I am praying (very hard) that it is still hidden away in the stacks.
Leoplod Damrosch was a giant figure in American musical life from 1871-1885 and did a lot to 'professionalise' and improve east coast musical life. Revival of his music and recognition of his achievements is long overdue. He wrote a symphony , other orchestral pieces, choral, chamber music, etc as well. Not one note recorded. And when was anything last performed?
I think he has been even worse treated than Alfred Hill in this country, although I suspect Damrosch was a weightier man of music.
regards
Peter
Hi all
Glad tidings - and more info. The Leopold Damrosch Symphony in C Major (1878) was finally edited by Kati Agos a few years ago and published in 2005. I believe the Julliard School gave the first performance of the work at around the same time.
Best of all, the Music Division of the Library of Congress has a mountain of archival material and music manuscripts relating to the composer and various relatives, including both his sons. It seems that major donations were made about 1850 and the whole collection was re-organised in the 1990s.
regards
Peter
I love much of the music of Amy Marcy Beach. The Concerto is lovely, as is the Violin Sonata and the Piano Quintet. She was a very talented composer with some big ideas. I also used to play a piano piece of hers called "Dreaming" on some of my programs, and it was always well-received.
Steven
I accept the correction about the Copland spelling. I know better and yet made the mistake. Thanks for all the replies. It's been fun to read and learn of some names I was not familiar with. So, I will undoubtedly wind up spending more money on more recordings and thus the obsession goes on and on! ;D
I really do love Amy Beach's material. She was really gifted and seldom heard.
Kevin
I'd certainly go along with Paine, Bristowe & Foote but certainly don't care for the symphonic music of their more recent fellow countrymen, the one exception being Don Gillis, whose music I extolled on our old forum.
One of my absolute favorite works of all is The Mystic Trumpeter by Frederick Converse. What a poetic, powerful and thrilling piece it is! When I first heard it (thanks again, Naxos) I was bowled over with it. I ordered a score and fully intend on playing it someday. There are many other worthy American scores worth hearing, and many of the above posts have hit on some of them. I love Chadwick's music, and Amy Beach, too.
But of all the American music I have collected, the most enjoyable, and just fun music comes from the American marching band arena. Yes -- band marches! The Viennese may own the waltz, but there's nothing as uplifting to get you in a good mood as a good old march. Sousa is ok, but far from my favorite. Composers I like the best are Henry Fillmore and Karl King, but there are many, many others who may have written wonderful ones. There are so many recordings to buy. Maybe it just brings back happy childhood memories of band concerts in the city park on weekends in Iowa, but as high-falutin as I can get with listening to monumental European symphonies, these simple marches are just magical. There are other countries (England and Germany) which also turned out some great marches, but they just don't match up in my opinion, although Kenneth Alford sure was great! And symphony orchestras can't play marches, either. No transcription of Colonel Bogey can ever compare to a wind band playing it.
Which brings me to July 4th. It used to be that on July 4th, local bands would do concerts before the fireworks. Very nostalgic and quintessentially American. Sadly, in many parts of the country this tradition has been totally lost. Now, rock bands play the 4th. I went to show last summer and after the rock band played and screamed some incomprehensible garbage, I said something like "does anybody really think this is better than a Sousa march?" You would have thought I made some indescribably vile racist, satanic comment. People around me made comments like "what, you don't like good music? " or how square could I be? Very sad comment on what's happened to music appreciation in our culture. Of course, irony of ironies followed shortly when the fireworks display was accompanied to a recording of the strains of that great American and super-patriotic work, 1812 Overture! ;)
You mean the 1812 Overture isn't about the War of 1812? ;D ::)
Hi all
Hi Martin. thanks for the clue about Mr Converse. It will arrive on my doorstep in a week. I love Chadwick, Paine, Beach, early Ives (yes) as well. Plus Parker, Bristow, Foote and other folk of the east coast schools. I want to actually HEAR some music by Deems Taylor.
Am with you about Sousa. But give me Victor Herbert in even greater abundance please. I do not understand it - I know his cello concertos are brilliant and that his operettas were about on a par with those of Gilbert and Sullivan. But where are they? I want stage offerings and DVDs thereof, not more 'selections and highlghts' given with cute and patronising reviews and liner notes about how 'yesteryear' and Euro based it all was.
Strange. All credit to American musical taste and stubborn adherence (in some quarters) to a sturdy respect for classical forms allied with musical nationalism. Solid quantities of fine romantic era music have been recorded...
It is really embarrassing when I compare such achievements (ie, simply getting the works preserved and recorded) with the scene in this country. Musical politics is 'agin' such revivals...And even against the preservation of such works in local archives. One example - I just found out (picture my rage) that the music of the first large scale work (and I mean large - chorus of 100, 4 soloists, brass band plus orchestra, by a musician who knew his stuff, year 1881) composed in my home State was ditched without a by-your-leave, possibly after the first musical conservatories were established.
regards
Peter
Deems Taylor! Now there's a long lost name. For as popular as he once was, and the movies he made, he sure has vanished from sight. But...I have played some of his music. It was the suite from Through the Looking Glass. I recall it being a lot of fun to play, well written, humorous and just a winner. Seems like a good candidate for Naxos!
And re Victor Herbert. Do you know the tone poem Hero and Leander? I got it by "accident", as I wanted the Grand Canyon Suite from Maazel/Pittsburgh. But the best thing was the Herbert. Speaking of Herbert, I also have loved the Auditorium Festival March since the Naxos cd came out some time ago. I tracked down a score and set of parts and begged a conductor to do it on the New Year's concert. At first he wasn't too sure. It looks hard and he didn't know it, and I didn't want to spoil the fun with a cd. Many in the orchestra were also wondering what the heck is this? But at the first reading, when the trio came and Auld Lang Syne began, everyone understood why I asked to play it. It's a great concert opener, extremely well scored and oddly enough packs an emotional punch not unlike Elgar's first Pomp & Circumstance.
Quote from: mbhaub on Friday 12 June 2009, 22:20
Deems Taylor! Now there's a long lost name. For as popular as he once was, and the movies he made, he sure has vanished from sight. But...I have played some of his music. It was the suite from Through the Looking Glass. I recall it being a lot of fun to play, well written, humorous and just a winner. Seems like a good candidate for Naxos!
It's on a Delos CD from the 90s, coupled with some music by Charles Griffes (a great American composer not mentioned here -- somewhat impressionistic as opposed to romantic though)
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Fantasies-Charles-Griffes-Taylor/dp/B0000006XL
Would someone like Alan Hovhaness fit in this as well?
At one point I might have been tempted to call him my favorite contemporary composer. While I still feel he has some brilliant pieces for my ears, I do have some issues after hearing more of his collection.
I'd love to hear the members' thoughts about him, his music, etc..
If I may paraphrase a member of the former Forum, Hovanhess is generally a one-trick pony. A more precise quote would be to say that the best piece by Hovanhess is the last one you heard.
Quote from: JimL on Wednesday 17 June 2009, 22:24
If I may paraphrase a member of the former Forum, Hovanhess is generally a one-trick pony. A more precise quote would be to say that the best piece by Hovanhess is the last one you heard.
It's interesting that you say this, because that is one of my biggest concerns with his compositions. While I really have enjoyed them, so many sound exactly the same. I am all for a composer having his/her personal "sound", but it's something else when I feel like the same theme is being played.
I am almost positive that I have more than one of his pieces where the same theme in one Opus (let's say a symphony) is used in another Opus (let's say a vocal work). Is this common for composers? I almost feel like it's cheating to get credit for another opus when the theme is not new, etc.
Another issue I have is that there are times he writes for an instrument, but in a way as if he has never actually knows what the instrument is capable of. I have a Symphony for Guitar and Orchestra where the plunking of the guitar makes it sound like a kid just picked it up. (He has a Guitar Concerto where he does a better job, so he obviously knows better how to use that instrument.)
Quote from: monafam on Thursday 18 June 2009, 00:54
I am almost positive that I have more than one of his pieces where the same theme in one Opus (let's say a symphony) is used in another Opus (let's say a vocal work). Is this common for composers? I almost feel like it's cheating to get credit for another opus when the theme is not new, etc.
Sure. Bach did it all the time. So did Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Schubert, Mozart...
Hovhaness I agree has a very distinct and similar feel between all his compositions, but that doesn't make them any less interesting to listen to for me. For some good contrast, check out Symphony No. 50 "Mount St. Helens", or Symphony No. 4 for wind ensemble. His string quartets are also a bit more naturally placed, as it were. And Prayer of St. Gregory is one of my all time favorite pieces.
Quote from: TerraEpon on Thursday 18 June 2009, 06:07
Sure. Bach did it all the time. So did Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Schubert, Mozart...
Hovhaness I agree has a very distinct and similar feel between all his compositions, but that doesn't make them any less interesting to listen to for me. For some good contrast, check out Symphony No. 50 "Mount St. Helens", or Symphony No. 4 for wind ensemble. His string quartets are also a bit more naturally placed, as it were. And Prayer of St. Gregory is one of my all time favorite pieces.
Thanks for the reply and noting that more more noteworthy composers did the same things. I am totally with you on "Mount St. Helens" and the "Prayer of St. Gregory" -- to tell the truth there aren't a lot I haven't enjoyed (with the exception of parts of the Symphony 39 (?) for Guitar and Orchestra). I was so enamored with his music when I first came across it, perhaps the only way to go was down. Perhaps I've been influenced by many who don't particular care for him. (I won't give up on him yet!) ;D
One more question -- Anybody know the back story on Bernstein calling one of Hovhaness' pieces "filthy ghetto music" (or something like that)?
Hello everyone
I think I would choose Bristow's D minor symphony Op.24 as my favourite American symphony, though his 'Arcardian' Symphony, also in D minor (Op.50) is striking, especially in the exciting Indian war dance scherzo. I have Mark Thomas to thank for introducing me to the symphonies of G.F.Bristow.
Cheers, Lew Lewis
I appreciate all of the discussions and recommendations. I just got David Diamond's Symphony No 1/a Violin Concerto/The Enormous Room and I'm really enjoying it!
This Bristow one sounds interesting as well. I may have to check it out.
The Naxos 'American Classics' series is an excellent way to introduce yourself to American composers you might have missed. I discovered McKay and Carpenter that way.
William Schuman
Anyone who's never heard Randall Thompson's Symphony #3 in A minor has missed out on a gorgeous piece of late-Romanticism that mixes the lushness of Hanson with the power of Copland's "Rodeo". I think of its scherzo in the same breath (to mangle a metaphor) as the scherzo of Rachmaninov's Second, and its gentle finale is five of my favorite minutes in all American music.
-J
--
Jim Moskowitz
The Unknown Composers Page: http://kith.org/jimmosk/TOC.html (http://kith.org/jimmosk/TOC.html)
My latest list of unusual classical CDs for auction: http://tinyurl.com/527t7 (http://tinyurl.com/527t7)
Some of Copland's best (and most Romantic-sounding) music has finally been recorded for release on Naxos: I am of course referring to his complete film scores (never before released) to Our Town and Of Mice and Men (his first two dramatic -- and full length -- film scores). If these two are successful I'm told they'll also do a complete re-recording of The Heiress, which won him an Oscar (Our Town and Of Mice and Men were both nominated, as was The North Star, but none of those won). Of course further in the future I'd love a complete Red Pony. If you are unfamiliar with these scores or only know them through puny suites I think you're in for a surprise! They're some of his best music.
Yavar
P.S. While I'm talking about film music I must mention Virgil Thompson, who wrote some fine documentary scores but also some fantastic concert music as well.
Anybody notice how, when PBS broadcast the 4th of July from the Capitol, the fireworks were accompanied by Tchaikovsky's Overture 1812, (the following is to be read in a heavy Russian accent) composed for to commemorate great Americansky victory over Angleesky in War of 1812, nyet? :D
They also hacked Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue to bits and had the solo part split between TWO pianists! For shame!
The Muppets from Sesame Street were cool, though. 8)
Yeah, Jim, they play that at the Hollywood Bowl (with fireworks) too...
Bleh.
Yavar
I just got some music by Don Gillis. I like it quite a bit.
I guess this is my debut on the NEW board...and since Americans are my area, I'll make a plug for Horatio Parker. What Victorian choral piece is more stirring than Hora Novissima? (Good recording available, too: from Nebraska on Albany records) And the Northern Ballad..surely he's the American Tchaikovsky??!! (on records Hegyi and Krueger both good, Krueger maybe a little more magical on the descending bass line in the coda.) And most recently the marvelous scene for baritone and orchestra 'Cahal Mor of the Wine-Red Hand' newly (and excellently) recorded on Albany records by Patrick Mason. All full of good tunes and red-blooded Romanticism. Makes you yearn for his opera Mona, premiered at the Metropolitan Opera... Best, from NYC David K
Re. Damrosch, people might like to know that both the published Full Score and the holograph MS of the Violin Concerto in D minor, [1847] are in the library of the Juilliard School of Music.
I wonder if the scores of those other concertante violin works are among the MSS in Library of Congress.
Just posted a new topic on clarinet concertos when I heard on the radio a movement of a clarinet quintet by the American female composer Ellen Taaffe Zwilich (1939), from the CD "American Clarinet Quintets". A charming piece, certainly worth listening. She even composed a clarinet concerto in 2002-03. But her music doesn't belong to the romantic style, I suppose.