I just found out yesterday that Heritage Records have, in the past few years, been reissuing Unicorn-Kanchana CDs, including several Bernard Herrmann titles. As noted in a thread from a few years back, all copies of the 1990 CD reissue of Herrmann's 1970 recording of Raff's 5th Symphony evidently suffer from "bronzing," aka "CD rot." I've emailed Heritage encouraging them to consider reissuing the Raff.
My eternal gratitude will go out to any of you who would do the same. I'd also note that there are a number of other currently unavailable titles in the Unicorn catalog that might be of interest to readers here, so it can't hurt to let them know there's interest in their efforts. I'll paste the link to their website below:
https://www.heritage-records.com
Thanks for doing this. I know that many of us retain an affection for this disc and still regard it as the definitive performance in spite of that over enthusiastic timpanist! My copy is badly bronzed but still plays perfectly.
I'm sure it would be a noble cause. However, this particular recording can hardly now be regarded as definitive: historic, yes; definitive, surely not. So, I'd buy it for its historic importance in the Raff discography; but I'd hesitate to commend it as the way to play Raff.
I can't disagree. It is my favorite symphony, but, to my mind, all seven of the recordings released on CD so far are flawed in one way or another, be it sound quality, phrasing & tempo, or quality of orchestral playing. That said, I still enjoy listening to all of them, well, maybe all except Yondani Butt & The Philharmonia on ASV. That one is absolutely lifeless.
I do agree that Herrmann's is some way from being the "best" all round of Lenore recordings but it is iconic. It was, for many of my older generation of Raff enthusiasts, our introduction to his music and for that reason alone I return to it from time to time but it's no longer the benchmark of Raff interpretation it once was. I keep the LP and CD as artefacts but to listen I turn to an mp3 rip.
Point taken there seems to be no 'best Raff 5', but what is the second best recommendation? Bamert, Jarvi, Schneider, Stadlmair?
Quote from: raffite33 on Friday 22 December 2023, 00:23I can't disagree. It is my favorite symphony, but, to my mind, all seven of the recordings released on CD so far are flawed in one way or another, be it sound quality, phrasing & tempo, or quality of orchestral playing. That said, I still enjoy listening to all of them, well, maybe all except Yondani Butt & The Philharmonia on ASV. That one is absolutely lifeless.
Strange..., since Y. Butt's Im Walde is pretty terrific.
Im Walde on ASV was conducted by Francesco d'Avalos. I agree: it's very well done. Yondani Butt only recorded Lenore.
Quote from: M. Yaskovsky on Friday 22 December 2023, 12:55Point taken there seems to be no 'best Raff 5', but what is the second best recommendation? Bamert, Jarvi, Schneider, Stadlmair?
I'd say that Järvi is the most idiomatic choice. I just wish he'd re-done the opening which, to my ears, is slightly smudged. Nevertheless, I'm sure it's how Lenore is supposed to go...
Funny, but the one Lenore I tell people to avoid is Jarvi. Raff a tempo is rather like Beethoven the same way: it makes you wonder if his metronome was out of whack.
Oh, I found Järvi's Lenore eye-opening. And it really was the first time I really enjoyed the piece. Different folks, and all that.
I'm certain that Lenore was meant go considerably more swiftly than under Herrmann. I suppose Stadlmair is the safest modern choice, but is Raff really meant to be safe?
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 22 December 2023, 16:34Im Walde on ASV was conducted by Francesco d'Avalos. I agree: it's very well done. Yondani Butt only recorded Lenore.
Oh my! Sorry, I don't know how I missed it. Back to the topic. I have no issue with Järvi's Lenore because I felt the hair-raising tempo in the beginning only added to the surprise and out worldly atmosphere Raff wanted to create and any disappointment, I might have felt was purely due to my ears being "spoiled" by pre-existing recordings that I grew comfortable with. Are there any non-commercial recordings/performances that have done Symphony No. 5 some justice?
Not to worry - same label, but different conductor.
The mistake, I think, is to play Raff as if he were Brahms. His music requires real athleticism, I feel.
Whilst I am very comfortable with my old Herrmann LP, Alan, I think you are spot-on with the point you have just made . Raff benefits from the nimble and suffers from the solemn, and I think that is even true about his First Symphony.
There's no doubt about it in my view, Raff benefits from a certain briskness and there's plenty of contemporary evidence attesting to that being the way his music was played in the 19th century. His great friend the conductor Hans von Bülow said "with Raff everything goes quickly". Overall, amongst commercial recordings I think that Järvi comes closest to Raff's intentions for
Lenore but there's a definite lack of flexibility when he employs faster tempi which does mean that, to take an obvious example, the very opening of the piece is taken
too fast, with the result that it sounds, as Alan writes, "smudged". He also misjudges the "apotheosis" at end of the finale and rather throws it away.
QuoteAre there any non-commercial recordings/performances that have done Symphony No. 5 some justice?
There's a 2022 performance on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZkQeTqveY&t=914s) by the
Zentralschweizer Jugendsinfonieorchester under Jonas Bürgin which, although it's certainly not without its deficiencies, gets the tempi pretty much right throughout. It certainly conveys the feeling of a fevered dream, which is the basis of the original
Lenore ballad from which Raff took his inspiration, whilst remaining thoroughly musical and often exciting throughout.
Yes, the performance Mark refers to seems to be positioned somewhere between Jarvi and Stadlmair - pretty well ideal, I'd say. In fact, if pushed, I'd point to this performance as the one to listen to - for conception if not for execution (this is, after all, a Youth Orchestra).
We just need a few more enlightened modern commercial recordings...
These exchanges are so informative - thank you. My rahter clicky Herrmann LP, and its Nonesuch CD version, have been long cherished, and I haven't taken time to explore the other performances. I'll start by listening to the Zentralschweizer Jugendsinfonieorchester on YT - thank you for the link and the appraisal.
Can anyone explain the "Op.101" title?
Quote from: semloh on Tuesday 26 December 2023, 21:03Can anyone explain the "Op.101" title?
The Tudor recording of Lenore is coupled with the First Suite, Op. 101. Whoever did the YouTube post probably copied the opus number incorrectly from that Tudor release.
Quality sleuthing, John.
Yes, thanks John.
Listening again to the performance on YouTube by the Zentralschweizer Jugendsinfonieorchester
under Jonas Bürgin which comes in at around 44 minutes - I'd say it was pretty well ideal. Here's the link again for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZkQeTqveY