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Ah, but irrespective of whatever merits it may turn out to have, it certainly will not trump the Toccata disc for the quality of the notes in the CD booklet.

Ha, solved it! The same record company are also releasing the Talich Qt recording of the set of Mendelssohn's st qts Op. 44 nos 1-3.

Methinks someone has confused one disc with the other.

Yes, MDT have clearly "got something wrong" - but unintentionally so. The mistake is that of the record company, and MDT have perpetuated it.

The 3 St Qts here are:
No. 1 in E minor, Op. 61 (1835)
No. 2 in A major, Op. 62 (1835)
No. 3 in G major, Op. 90 (1838)

The Talich recording of them was originally on a Calliope disc (issued ca. 2005), and the label La Dolce Volta is one which reissues now unobtainable Calliope discs.

I can't guess where the record label's Op. 44 has come from - as Eric points out Op 44 is Kalliwoda's F major Overture.

The names are confusing. I hope I'm right in what I've always assumed - namely that Jan Krititl Vaclav Kalivoda is the Czech name of the present composer (born in Prague and 1801-1866), and that Johann Wenzel Kalliwoda is the Germanised version of the name. Yes?

The son is Wilhelm Kalliwoda (1827-1893), a far more minor composer (compared to his father's near 300 compositions) who also established a reputation as a conductor.

As for Pater, these quartets are pretty good (as are the Talich's performances of them - I have the original Calliope disc). Sadly they are the only st qts Kalliwoda composed (other than some later single movements scored for st qt). He never completed any further (whole) quartets, and I've always thought the quality of his works decreased as the quantity increased (but that's just my prejudice).

Piano Quintet No. 6? There is surely only one Gouvy Pf Quintet - that in A major, Op. 24?

And "good, robust discussion" seems to have squashed flat a rather fine quartet that does not deserve to be consigned to oblivion. I sign off in a huff.

I don't disagree with that last recommendation. However given the change of title to the thread I would request it be changed not to 'Rott Symphony No. 1/Acousence' but to, simply, 'Rott / Acousence'.

After all, the thread lurched from 'Raff' to 'Rott' since Tom's claims about Raff and Acousence ran into a brick wall, and then (although irrelevant at the time) I happened to recall my pleasure in getting to know the Rott quartet through the Acousence recording of it.

Poor quartet, for it has now been swamped by the symphony. Whatever the merits of the latter (and for me it is just too much of a formless wallow), the Rott String Quartet is an immensely satisfying work. The present title of the thread is prejudicial to it, and, please, do not allow us to overlook this fine and unique work.

The quartet, incidentally, got a second recording at the end of last year when Quintone released a recording by the Israel String Quartet.

Ah, what nostalgia...  Acousence provided me with the first opportunity to listen to the rather marvellous Hans Rott String Quartet.

Apologies...nothing to do with Raff.

I've also never come across a recording of Raff on Acousence. I wonder, Tom, whether you might be mixing up labels in the excitement of listening to Raff?

I share those feelings (utterly): it would be wonderful to have recordings of Raff's entire works (and I especially like the suggestion of the works for two pianos / four hands).

However if you look through the entire work list, and make a few (hopefully intelligent) guesses, you come to the conclusion that we're not talking of an additional Vol 7 or 8....but probably up to 20 or so Volumes.

And that gives pause for thought. I'm pretty sure Tra wouldn't want to learn and prepare for studio performance every single scrap Raff wrote. Would it be commercially justifiable? Would she want to be typecast as someone who plays Raff to the exclusion of all else? Are we certain that all the Raff odds and ends are worth having on record when there are so many other works by other deserving composers that remain unknown or unrecorded?

I don't know the answers to such questions. But I would think the existence of such questions means we need to think more carefully before asking for a complete series. What a complete killjoy I am!

Maybe just as well the new Raff series is being produced by Chandos, rather than, say, CPO - for I fear that with the latter's release times we might all well be advanced in our dotage before the next Raff symphony was released. Patience, Colin!

On my shelves I've got two recordings of W H Bell:

A Marco Polo recording of the 1927 South African Symphony (but I never realised it was No. 4 among five symphonies), and

The 1916 Rosa Mystica Viola Concerto (a lovely work!) performed by Roger Chase, BBC Concert Orchestra / Stephen Bell, which came out on Dutton c/w the Stanley Bate Va Concerto.

In the Dutton disc there's a "personal memoir" of Bell by his fellow South African John Joubert - and it is an especially interesting piece. Bell obviously gained liking and affection from his students who called him Daddy Bell.

Thanks for providing this list of works. I'd certainly like to hear more of his compositions - especially the chamber music. 'Daddy Bell' seemed quite prolific. I also see from the Joubert memoir that Bell's wife was the sister of John McEwen. Is that John Blackwood McEwen, the composer, or am I confusing names?

The opera has already been recorded - with a good set of soloists, BBC Concert Orchestra and conducted by Lloyd himself - and I imagine this would diminish the likelihood of a second recording. It is a 3 CD set issued around 1994 by Albany. Ironic that an American company should have recorded both the opera together with all / most (?) of the symphonies and some choral works of this British composer. No reason, of course, why this shouldn't be the case - but sad that Lloyd has been passed over in his own country.

A fascinating post, Derek. Thank you for it. I always think German's orchestral music is interesting, and of a higher quality than he is given credit for. (After all, Elgar rated him, and the two became friends.) The two symphonies are really rather good - I guess you've ordered the Dutton version. It is a good performance - but then so is its rival on Marco Polo conducted by Andrew Penny. If you have a particular admiration for the incidental music to Romeo & Juliet, then the piece I much admire is Hamlet.

I never realised German started life in Whitchurch in Shropshire - until when revisiting places in which I had gone to school and had spent my teens I suddenly and quite unexpectedly walked into an Edward German festival. That was 7 or so years ago.

I often wonder what might have happened had German concentrated more on 'serious' music? But then he wouldn't have been German, the immensely versatile composer of light opera and songs, and wouldn't have achieved the popularity (and the honours) that came his way. His own instrument of course was the violin - and there are some rather good transcriptions for violin and piano of some of the popular pieces for the theatre (nothing I think available on recordings, and in spite of being fun to hear maybe they aren't really worthy of a recording.)

Wonder what went up in flames? How awful. And I wonder what the spat with Gilbert was about? I thought the two collaborated after Sullivan's death.

And you never told us whether you were successful in achieving Grade 8. I hope so!

Thanks Alan. This one came rather out of the blue with not a hint of any change in the last issue. But I suppose easily explained given the current world of recorded music.

Ah, just think what Gramophone might have become had us chaps bought it!

Rather than mess around with such things as Youtube, Sebastian, I'd go out and purchase the Sterling recording of this Raff work. That would enable you to find out what it sounds like - and would introduce you to a most superb work. Easy!

Oh yes, they were wonderful things - and consistently so from talk to talk. If a capacity to respond to music was somehow innate in my make-up, I think it was Hopkins's talks that triggered that capacity and made it active. He had a super habit of getting you inside a work without ever appearing unduly technical. A great communicator as well - he showed a genuine enthusiasm for his subject, imparted it to an audience, and revealed to you all sorts of things about the music of which you hadn't been fully aware. My friends at school were busily listening to Elvis, whilst I regularly tuned into Anthony Hopkins.

To take just one little example: I've had a huge affection for Lennox Berkeley's Serenade for Strings ever since hearing Hopkins talking about it....and wouldn't that have been broadcast in the early to mid 1960s?

Anyone know whether the texts of these talks have ever been published? Or the broadcasts preserved? Would be awful to think that all that remains are the memories of a few old codgers such as myself.