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#346
I keep finding references to the lack of value of contemporary composers.  Am I the only one who suspects that there will be a forum in 100 or 150 years in which people discuss how to revive the unsung composers of the early twenty-first century?
#347
I think we are starting to lose focus here:  A lot of only marginally related problems and grievances are appearing that are worthy subjects of discussion, but in different threads (some of them like the value of 12 tone music even in different fora).  Here is the problem:  If you have 10000 people who want to listen to Beethoven and one person who wants to listen to Raff the fair way of programming would be one hour of Raff for every hour of Beethoven:  That way everybody gets the same time for their preferred music.  But the economically viable way it 10000 hours of Beethoven and 1 (or zero) hour of Raff.  (not my argument; I am getting this from Jürg Frauchiger's book "Was zum Teufel ist denn mit der Musik los?").
Looking at it that way you would have to convince members of the audience to prefer Raff--which you can't do because Raff is very rarely performed.  Audiences like to hear what they are familiar with; they might not resist Raff in the way they resist late Schoenberg, but they still won't risk ticket money on a Raff performance.
One partial way around this would be amateur performances:  They have a built  in audience consisting of friends and family of the performers, so they can take risks with programming without having to play to empty halls.  Obviously the quality of performances may be a problem and a 60 minute symphony would certainly be a bad idea.  But it is not necessarily the most polished performance that is also the most moving.
#348
Composers & Music / Re: Ten Pieces for Schools
Friday 09 October 2015, 01:10
I second this with caveats: 
Quote from: kolaboy on Thursday 08 October 2015, 22:40
I've never come across ANY example of "religious wackos" (of which I may be considered one) in "the states" objecting to The Sorcerer's Apprentice, or any other of the pieces mentioned. Broad brushes (sigh).
There is no degree of craziness you don't find somewhere in the US.  But as far as the target public for a list of this kind I don't see a problem either, especially with the Sorcerer's Apprentice:  Just make him look like Mickey Mouse (or don't people watch that movie any more? Rite of Spring is also in it.)
#349
Composers & Music / Re: Ten Pieces for Schools
Thursday 08 October 2015, 02:24
The three following pieces were used by my primary school teacher to try and introduce us to classical music.  He built quite substantial lessons around them and made us listen to them more than once (in sections first and then the whole piece in on go to finish).  And I think he was quite successful (which is my reason:  These pieces have tested well in practice).  I'd add that we were about 10 - 11 years old at the time.

Paul Dukas:  "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" (no use of Fantasia was made, but Goethe's wonderful poem was part of the lesson--I grew up German speaking).

Mussorgsky/Ravel:  "Pictures of an Exhibition" (where you can link optical and aural experiences).

Schubert:  "Erlkönig" (again, included the fabulous poem by Goethe).

I support most of the suggestions of giles.enders--especially "Carnaval des Animaux" and "Sacre du Printemps", but:
As to opera I'd think "Magic Flute" is about as suitable for children as anything:  Children are familiar with fairy tales and the "Singspiel" with its interruptions is better adapted to children's attention span than the through composed nature of operas like "La Bohème".
As to solo piano music:  Chopin to me is very much adult music; anyway I had no ear for it as a child.  But I'd suggest Bach's Well Tempered Clavier (a selection, not plodding through the whole set):  The C-Major prelude was one of the first pieces of music that made an impression on me.  And the fugue is a relatively easy to explain form (easier than sonata form by miles) and it is fun to follow the themes.  Again, relatively short pieces suited to children.
Chamber music is missing from the list (though "Carnaval" is borderline chamber music) and I am curious if anybody comes up with good selections.  All I can say is that one probably ought to avoid the more austere genres (string quartets and quintets) and select something with a piano or else with wind players in it, maybe something like Beethoven's quintet for piano and winds or else the Dumky trio, but I am not fully happy with either of them.
#350
A few random ideas about this topic:

I think the binary nature of your presentation simplifies things too much:  You have a very heavy mountain, the standard repertoire which you want to roll off our concert schedules in order to create space for the unsung repertoire--which is a very unwieldy object as well.

At first one ought to remember that the standard repertoire is much less than the output of the "sung" composers:  How often do you hear Beethoven's Second Symphony in concert?  Of all of his violin sonatas only 3 ("Spring", "Kreutzer" and op.30/3 in c-minor) are part of the standard repertoire, the others are only performed in the context of a complete cycle.  The same applies to the string quartets.  Etc.

Then there is the issue of quality:  Most if not all of the standard repertoire is music of truly outstanding quality.  This is not the case for the unsungs:  There are great composers among them (e.g. Raff or Onslow to my mind).  But there are also people among them who were able to write great music, but didn't always do it (Spohr, Bruch), even those with one great work in an otherwise forgettable output (Viotti and his a-minor violin concerto) and those who just weren't that great.  This means you can't make a good argument on quality against the standard repertoire, you have to make one for the alternatives--one composer or even one work at a time.

One more point of "analysis":  The works of the standard repertoire have an "undeserved" quality advantage (on top of the fact that they are all very good to begin with):  The fact that they are played often and by many people means everybody has to work hard to get competitive performances, the interpretations get better by "cooperative competition".  Interpreters who attempt to perform an unsung piece by contrast have no models, no examples of how one might do it or examples of how not to do it (Anne Sophie Mutter's cycle of the Beethoven violin sonatas), they are on their own.  Their performance is like a first draft.

What to do?  It seems to me that tackling the whole mountain is too big a task for any group of people.  So you need to move things one boulder at a time.  Some unsungs have had supporters to work on this (Raff for example and Onslow).  Web sites are dedicated to them; academic work is done on them (like a proper biography of Onslow); performances and/or recordings are organized (for economic reasons often with chamber music).  But any such effort will focus on one composer and must be sustained by passion.  It has been done in the past:  Mendelssohn was practically unsung in the first half of the 20th century and has come back.  And Mendelssohn himself was famously and crucially involved in "promoting" Bach from unsung to sung.  But I do think that success will be slow and will be even slower if too much is attempted (Scharwenka plus Ries plus etc.).

You observed that people will go listen to Scharwenka when played by a big name interpreter.  So to find ways to lobby those people to play Scharwenka might be one thing to try (it will be hard; big name people are forced to perform more than is good for their health and to save energy they are mostly not very eager to learn new repertoire, let alone repertoire that represents a risk.  Also you must get the performers to truly believe in the pieces, otherwise they'll do a mediocre job and miss the music while just playing the notes).

#351
Composers & Music / Re: Theodor Fröhlich
Wednesday 30 September 2015, 03:52
I have finally re-identified the article about this mass:  Meyer Thomas, Schweizer Musikzeitung 5/9 (September 2002)  pp 9 - 10 (behind a paywall; a few years ago it was accessible easily on line when I read it).
There is no doubt about which Fröhlich is involved.  And there is no doubt that the work is by Naumann--he died 1801 and any copy of the score that is too old for Fröhlich to be the author will prove that it is not his.  The question is if this i a case of plagiarism.  One can think of numerous scenarios from sloppiness to active cheating.
#352
Composers & Music / Re: Theodor Fröhlich
Tuesday 29 September 2015, 06:58
True--but for how many of those do we have a score in the handwriting of the composer who did not compose the music?  With no hint anywhere in the manuscript that it is someone else's work?  Interestingly Naumann died in 1801 (or thereabouts):  The mass is from a different era.  How it could happen that for decades the mass was considered Fröhlich's work in spite of the stylistic mismatch with the time as well as with Fröhlich's personal style I can't quite figure (maybe because church music is often conservative in style?  Yet his second mass is reported to be quite different).  It seems the work is very good.  I have never heard or seen it, but people seem to agree on that.  This, combined with the fact that it is suitable for amateur choirs (with an organ if no orchestra is available) and the fact that there is precious little Swiss music around may have motivated many to perform it, but I still don't think it is enough of an explanation.  Especially for the existence of recordings of it--where it isn't the conductor of the church choir in Hinterfultigen who makes the decisions.
#353
Composers & Music / Re: Theodor Fröhlich
Tuesday 29 September 2015, 00:45
Thanks for the additions to the discography.
Just a very quick (re-)clarification:  "Missa 1" is the mass that is by Naumann (there is a copy in Fröhlich's handwriting--with some minor modifications--in his estate, where, according to RISM a different person added the remark "composed by T. Fröhlich" in pencil).  If this is a case of plagiarism or just carelessness (there is no mention of the actual composer in the manuscript) is a question that probably can't be resolved.  But the copy was presumably made at first for study or for use with one of his choirs.  Again the possibility of dyslexia is crossing my mind.
#354
Composers & Music / Theodor Fröhlich
Monday 28 September 2015, 08:31
A name so far missing on this forum.
Full name:  Friedrich Theodor Fröhlich
1803 Born in Brugg, Switzerland
1822 / 23 Law student at the university in Basel; abandoned out of health concerns (?).  Started studying composition with local teachers.
1823 / 24 and again 1826 - 30 Studies in Berlin with Carl Friedrich Zelter (Mendelssohn's teacher and Goethe's friend) and Bernhard Klein.  For these studies he received a stipend from the cantonal government in Aarau.
Returned to Aarau and had jobs as music teacher, choir director and conductor of an amateur orchestra to make ends meet.  Died by suicide (drowning in the river Aare) in October 1836 at least in part from feeling artistically isolated in very provincial Aarau (even Fröhlich's compatriot Schnyder von Wartensee failed to mention him in his autobiography).
Fröhlich's brother Abraham Emmanuel was a well known preacher, writer and politician and supplied the texts for many of the songs.

Interesting parallels to Schubert's life:  Father wanted him to study a "serious" profession and resisted music; inability to earn enough money; left a large body of songs.

Works (summary):   

Vocal:  Numerous songs for voice(s) and piano as well as for choir with or without instruments.
One mass (the other mass is actually by J. G. Naumann [1741 - 1801] which Fröhlich appears to have copied for unknown reasons) and other sacred music.
Orchestral:  One fragment of a "sinfonia in A" (finale missing); several overtures.
Chamber:  4 String quartets, 1 string quintet, 2 piano quartets plus a quintet for piano, 2 horns, 2 celli.
Several works for violin and piano, one cello sonata.
Piano music:  Sonata op. 11 in A-Major; 6 "Elegien" op. 15 and smaller works.

Reception:  The critics have strangely mixed judgements (source: German Wikipedia):  He gets designated the most compelling romantic composer in Switzerland, credited for "simple, yet effective melodies" and "surprising turns in harmony" and at the same time criticized for "schematicism" and "vielfache Satzfehler"--I don't know the English word for "Satzfehler".  Note that "vielfache" may mean either "many" or "all kinds of".  (I don't have the kind of eye that notices parallel 5ths on first sight, but they can be found occasionally in his scores.  I do wonder if he may have suffered from dyslexia based on other aspects in his manuscripts.)  Personally I love what I know of his music, specially recommended: the "6 Elegien" for piano.  Also: "Wem Gott will rechte Gunst erweisen" has become a folk song (i.e. people sing it without knowing the author) and is really good (you find it on IMSLP).

Fröhlich's estate is at the university library in Basel, its musical part contains the autographs (as well as copies by other people) of the surviving works; there were no printed editions at the time as far as I know.  Some (few) of the autographs have been digitized and may be downloaded from the library's web site.  (You may also pay them to digitize the document you need.)

Available sheet music (not including the mass by Naumann):

String quartet E-major; Cello sonata f-minor; both by Amadeus Verlag, Winterthur, Switzerland; Pastorale and Rondo for Oboe and Piano; Kunzelmann GM143; various songs for choir from several publishers.  IMSLP: very slim pickings as of today.

Discography (again not including the mass by Naumann):

String quartets c-minor, E-Major, g-minor; Beethoven Quartet; MGB DDD 2015
Miserere for 12 voices and piano (plus 4 motets for choir); Basler Vocalsolisten etc.; MGB DDD 2006
Sonata for cello and piano; 6 Elegien for piano; Pastorale and Rondo for oboe and piano; MGB ADD 92; 1999
Romantische Chormusik (both sacred and worldly); Vocalensemble pro musica, Winterthur; Pierre Sarbach; Jecklin; 1998


#355
Composers & Music / Re: Schnyder von Wartensee?
Friday 25 September 2015, 15:07
I want to add a little to this topic as I have listened twice now to the second symphony on Youtube.  It seems more impressive than what I remember of the third.  Especially the slow movement--extremely long as it is--struck me as inspired.  It is in variation form using a very long theme and rather free variations.  In the other movements there is still a tendency to overuse the musical material--too many sequences of too simple motifs for example--which I remember is even more of a problem in the third, especially in the slow movement.  In the last movement Schnyder features Haydn's Emperor-hymn in a way that reminds me of Mendelssohn (Psalmensymphonie or c-minor piano trio) and therefor calls the work "Erinnerung an Joseph Haydn".
#356
Composers & Music / Re: Attilio Brugnoli (1880-1937)
Friday 18 September 2015, 15:28
I can't help adding to this discussion.

Suspecting Bartok of bad judgement is not synonymous with accusing him of only marginal talent.  Not all great artists have reliable judgement of their competition.  Every German speaking composer of the time rejected and often belittled Rossini's work (some people do to this day) with the exception of Schubert (the only exception I know of).  And the fight between Brahmsians and Wagnerians didn't have much to do with artistic quality on either side.

So as a rule negative judgements by one composer (even, or maybe especially one we consider talented) about another should never exactly deter us.
#357
Composers & Music / Re: Amanda Röntgen-Maier (1853-1894)
Saturday 12 September 2015, 15:29
After listening to the recording I feel the urge to add something to the qualifications given in various posts.  Whatever the merits of the work in comparison with others:  It is worth pointing out how very violinistic the solo part is written and how the soloist never needs to force the tone.  This happens when the composer is also a master violinist.  Most of the great "sung" concertos from the 19th century were written by non violinists and in many of them one can not fail to notice that (excepting the ones by Paganini, Wieniawski and others who wrote them for themselves, but how many of them are truly "sung"?).
On the negative side:  Why is the cadenza--which is indeed great--at the conventional location shortly before the end?  It interrupts the movement and kills the momentum which is supposed to carry us through the coda.   If I wrote a concerto in one large sonata movement I'd put the cadenza in a more strategic location e.g. at the end of the development section and use it to lead back to the recap.  Or else--like Bruch--no cadenza at all.
#358
Composers & Music / Re: Schnyder von Wartensee?
Friday 11 September 2015, 15:22
Thanks for all the info.  I admit I did the post from memory (the recording of the third symphony I had was with the Swiss "Radio-orchester" under--if memory serves--Peter Lukas Graf.  It was technically not very good, meaning there were flaws in execution not usually heard from professional musicians.  It also featured four or five wonderful Lieder by Theodor Fröhlich, these in an excellent interpretation).

I am glad that the autobiography is now available.  I do recommend it.  And since we are straying into literature:  I used to own a book published during or shortly after the Second World War (when all things Swiss were en vogue in CH) containing excerpts from the autobiography and an appendix:  Part of Gottfried Keller's eulogy on Schnyder, three anecdotes that Keller himself witnessed (or participated in).  The picture of Schnyder that emerges tallies nicely with the autobiography.  I recommend it though because it is so masterfully written, it is a pure pleasure to read it.

I have been thinking though that among the unsungs Schnyder is one who rather deserves to be unsung--except for the autobiography (this is an invitation to contradict with good evidence).  Indeed I posted because Schnyder is quite well represented on the forum while I did not find a single mention of Theodor Fröhlich who--IMHO--is quite a bit more deserving.  I want to make a post on Fröhlich when I have assembled a bit more information.

P.S.  The second symphony is presently on Youtube (Radiosinfonieorchester under Räto Tschupp).
#359
Composers & Music / Schnyder von Wartensee?
Thursday 10 September 2015, 15:52
Having grown up in Switzerland I searched his name on the forum, not expecting any mention and found several hits.  This rather surprised me as my fondness for him is mainly motivated by patriotic nostalgia.  I was more surprised that I encountered quite positive judgements about his music.  What I have heard of his compositions (the third symphony and the piece for two clarinets and orchestra on LP and some other things on the radio) struck me as sometimes original (the Adagio introduction to the symphony), but overall I found the musical material stretched too thin and the music became uninteresting on repeated listening.
Schnyder was a multitalent who also published verses (mostly written for a specific occasion if I remember correctly).  He was a virtuoso on the glass harmonica.  He did not play it too often in public though because--as he says--it touched the nerves of the gentle ladies too much and made them cry.
More memorable than his music is certainly his autobiography, one of the most entertaining autobiographies I have read.  It is not in print as far as I am aware; if you are German speaking and get a chance, I recommend you try it!  The Zentralbibliothek in Zurich has a copy and other Swiss libraries may have one too.  Schnyder appears in the book as a person with an extraordinary talent for happiness, charming and easygoing.  He went to Vienna to finish his studies and and claims to have befriended Beethoven.  His anecdotes remind us sometimes of "Jägerlatein" though.
#360
Composers & Music / Re: More unsung Tchaikovsky
Wednesday 09 September 2015, 14:58
I'd like to point out the third string quartet which I think can fairly be called unsung.  It is rarely played; amateur quartets don't tackle it because of its key (e flat minor; it isn't really all that hard--easier than F sharp Major) and its other difficulties.
To me the work is magnificent, at least equal to the famous first quartet.  It is longer and very serious, at least for the first two movements.  The Adagio is the centerpiece and it takes my breath away every time I hear it.  It has melodic sections interrupted by a sort of pilgrim's march and also features slowly ascending scales played pizzicato crescendo, then decrescendo when the melody descends again.  This section says "fate" to me much more intensely than the motive  in the sixth symphony.  I know there are recordings around, one with the Borodin quartet, which I recommend.
BTW:  The instruments sound phantastic in e-flat minor (something  you wouldn't predict).