Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: semloh on Saturday 09 September 2023, 07:59

Title: The Future of BIS
Post by: semloh on Saturday 09 September 2023, 07:59
I see that the Swsedish label BIS has been purchased by Apple. I wonder what this will mean for the current and future catalogue in terms of both content and formats, and in particular, of course, in relation to the less familiar repertoire. Losing Hyperion, and BIS so soon afterwards, might suggest a trend, and I can't work out whether our range of choices is broadening or narrowing. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 09 September 2023, 08:41
I guess that Apple decided that this made sense after launching their classical streaming platform and it's obviously an good exit route for BIS' 80 year old owner Robert von Bahr. There doesn't seem to be much of a clue from the press releases what the future holds for new BIS releases, all the talk is of synergy with the streaming service and pointing to the parallels with Universal's purchase of Hyperion and the launch of its own streaming platform DGG's Stage+.  If that's the way things are going, maybe Amazon are talking to Chandos, or Spotify to cpo?
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: semloh on Sunday 10 September 2023, 06:26
Goodness me, it's all so unpredictable. I'd hate to think of Chandos or cpo being effectively killed off through a takeover. Classical music isn't exactly a 'big earner' and these organizations think only of the bottom line; the first area to suffer would be surely the more obscure, or unsung, that few people purchase.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Ilja on Sunday 10 September 2023, 18:27
To be honest, I was surprised that Chandos wasn't the first to be taken over since their catalogue appears to be the most "generic" out of these labels. So I think it's a matter of time before they are scooped up by a larger entity, and Apple seems to be likely candidate. 

CPO is a somewhat different matter because of the way they are intertwined with the German cultural broadcast infrastructure. However, now that even that is being undermined in the wake of the Schlesinger scandal (and adjacent affairs) who knows?
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 10 September 2023, 18:39
I wasn't being entirely serious when I mentioned cpo and Chandos, just gazing into my crystal ball, but Ilja makes a very good point about Chandos' attractiveness to a major with a streaming service. I do agree that cpo is a very different animal and I'd be much more upset if it lost its independence than if Chandos was bought out.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: adriano on Thursday 19 October 2023, 20:48
Anybody knew this already?

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/05/apple-acquires-bis-records/
https://symphony.org/apple-buys-bis-classical-record-label/

Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: TerraEpon on Friday 20 October 2023, 01:34
Note from Moderator:
Thanks for noticing this, TerraEpon. As you can see, I have merged the two threads.
Alan Howe
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 20 October 2023, 20:22
Well, Bahr claims their "ethos remains unchanged", and looking forward to a future filled with music and artists in golden sound. This is not very specific, however :D
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: TerraEpon on Saturday 21 October 2023, 01:14
Well eClassical is still operating as usual, including daily comments on the deal of the day by Bahr himself, for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: adriano on Saturday 21 October 2023, 23:33
Sounds good, but I think we have enough Sibelius from them now :-)
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 22 October 2023, 09:42
Agreed!
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Ilja on Sunday 22 October 2023, 09:51
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 20 October 2023, 20:22Well, Bahr claims their "ethos remains unchanged", and looking forward to a future filled with music and artists in golden sound. This is not very specific, however :D
I think the outlook here is rather different than for Hyperion. Apple is actively expanding their presence in the classical market, and the purchase of "boutique" labels such as BIS makes sense in that regard. What I find (somewhat) encouraging is that they appear to focus on other things than performer celebrity (quite different from Universal's approach) and more on repertory and experience (consider the "moods" section of the app). You can clearly see them bringing their experience in the digital service industry to bear, and it'll be interesting to see where they end up. However, I don't think we've seen the last of them; and other smaller labels (Sterling springs to mind, and perhaps Dutton) may go the same way.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 22 October 2023, 15:44
They're working more on Kalevi Aho than on Sibelius, judging from most recent releases.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 22 October 2023, 18:57
Well, they might need to look a little wider, then. To be fair, they're certainly doing that....
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Ebubu on Sunday 29 October 2023, 22:34
It's really hard to tell "what this will mean for the current and future catalogue in terms of both content and formats", but what this tells me at this point is that I can accesse the whole catalog of Hyperion (what they have put on streaming so far) for free on Youtube and Youtube Music... Idem for the CPO, Chandos, Toccata Classics catalogues and a few others (Warner, etc...).
Who says they're interested in SELLING recordings when they're giving them all for free ? Looks like they're more interested in drowning Deezer, Qobuz, Spotify and all the other paying platforms.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: TerraEpon on Monday 30 October 2023, 00:25
Quote from: Ebubu on Sunday 29 October 2023, 22:34Who says they're interested in SELLING recordings when they're giving them all for free ? Looks like they're more interested in drowning Deezer, Qobuz, Spotify and all the other paying platforms.

I'm going to guess you never really engage with younger people online. A large percentage of self-proclaimed music lovers pretty much never buy music any more -- many never have. It's a causal loop that stemmed from the rise of streaming, but it's less that they are 'not interested in selling' but rather they (supposedly) have the data that shows they make more money from offering it on these platforms (which aren't free in the truest sense, either because of ads or of course because of being locked behind subscriptions).
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Ebubu on Monday 30 October 2023, 09:34
No need to "engage with younger people online" to be perfectly aware that they "pretty much never buy music any more".  As a matter of fact, it's not only "the younger people", I've myself not bought a CD for the last 5 or 6 years (but again I'm still young at heart !  ;) ).

"([platforms] which aren't free in the truest sense, either because of ads or of course because of being locked behind subscriptions)"
We've had this discussion before.  What counts is that in the end, for the listener, some platforms are free (YT, even though it attempts, rather agressively these days, to either force a monthly subscription on the viewers or subject them to unbearable ads every 5 minutes or so.  Fortunately, there are very efficient ad blockers out there, and ways to get around it, at least for the the geeks among us), and some are not (Qobuz, Idagio, Deezer, Spotify....).
But I'm glad "they (SUPPOSEDLY) have the data that shows they make more money from offering it on these platforms. 
I guess it all comes down, ultimately, to the Schwabian New World Order philosophy: "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy!"
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: terry martyn on Monday 30 October 2023, 10:39
I vowed that I would never buy a CD, when it appeared that vinyl was done and dusted, but in 2017 I changed my mind and have just today (with the arrival of my purchase of Moscheles' Eighth) made up for 30 years of self-denial by completing my collection   - assuming that vol.3 of the Krumpholz harp symphonies and concertos never again sees the light of day.

But I am an old dinosaur,and I will never never download.   Weeell, hardly ever.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Justin on Monday 30 October 2023, 18:29
I don't know what my input is worth as a "young whippersnapper," but I think part of this is recognizing how technology has changed consumer behavior. As many streaming platforms can be accessed on your phone, you can listen to them anywhere and have that benefit of portability that physical media doesn't. Certain platforms like Apple offer lossless quality which gets you virtually close to CD quality.

Following up on Dinosaur Terry's message, Vinyl is still ideal due to its analog nature, but I sacrifice some of that for the benefit of listening anywhere I go.

BIS is well-aware of this I'm sure, and having their catalog managed digitally by Apple will grant them wider access and perhaps better marketing.

The cases where I do buy physical media is for the booklets or libretto, and BIS' Sibelius Edition is special enough where I would happily buy the CDs. Same for Sterling.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Ebubu on Tuesday 31 October 2023, 16:06
"The cases where I do buy physical media is for the booklets or libretto"

You must be aware that many websites now offer booklets on download for free (Hyperion, Naxos, Toccata Classics,... and you can download many others from Idagio, without even buying a subscription.
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 31 October 2023, 16:20
For me the issue is how/where do I want to read stuff? On a PC, laptop, phone? No way! I want the physical product in my hands, rather as I want a physical book rather than text on an e-reader. Call me a dinosaur...
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: Justin on Wednesday 01 November 2023, 00:24
I'm with you Alan, so if you are a dinosaur, then I am in serious trouble at my age!
Title: Re: The Future of BIS
Post by: semloh on Wednesday 01 November 2023, 08:20
The BIS website is already attracting critical comment. Looks like the marketing whizz-kids have been given free rein.