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At tonight's Prom, Roger Norrington  the conductor once again affirmed  his view that vibrato should not be used by string players unless especially called for by the composer. In this case, he was conducting a vibrato free performance of Mahler's 9th symphony. He says that extensive use of vibrato by string players was only introduced in the early part of the 20th Century. Is he right?

Rather than add this to interesting thread on Beethoven's piano concerto fragments I thought I should start  this as a fresh topic.
    Around 50 years ago I distinctly remembering hearing a broadcast on the BBC of the composer's 2nd Symphony which included what was claimed to be the original Andante second movement which was later replaced by the familiar Larghetto. A few years ago, I contacted the Unheard Beethoven web site, but nobody there could find any trace of this Andante movement.
Sadly, at the time of the performance, I had no means of recording it. I wonder if anyone here has any information about the above symphonic movement.

I see that JPC have a 10 CD British Symphonic Collection on offer at the amazing price of 9.99 Euros. Unfortunately, I already have around half the works listed in my CD collection but, for someone wanting to become acquainted with some symphonic works from the UK, this must be a very worthwhile investment.

  I posed this question some years back but,since then, a good number of new members have joined this forum and I'm hoping for some fresh ideas on this subject. By "scherzo" I mean a sort of "jazzed up" version of the standard minuet and trio which generally comes before or after the slow movement in a 4 movement instrumental work.
     On the face of it, Joseph Haydn is the most likely candidate, as in his Op. 33 quartets but, more especially, in the so called "minuets" of his last few quartets. However, I'm wondering if some lesser known composer may have got there before Haydn.
    Another question would follow on from this: was Beethoven really the first to substitute a scherzo for a minuet in a symphony or was he just following a trend already established by one or more of his lesser known contemporaries?

The BBC broadcast this work for the first time today. I found it a very creditable effort for an 18 year old. However, after the third movement, which sounded like a scherzo, I was expecting to hear a finale but, as the presenter informed us, this "scherzo" was the finale. This is rather reminiscent of William Sterndale Bennett's first piano concerto, where; at the suggestion of his teacher, Potter; the composer cut out the original finale of his 4 movement work to leave it ending with a scherzo.
  Anyway, I found the Bowen symphony a very enjoyable listen and look forward to the forthcoming CD.

That's what Rob Cowan has been asking listeners to his 3 Breakfast programme on BBC Radio 3 this week. So please get in quickly with your choice, e-mailing it to 3breakfast@bbc.co.uk. I went for Lachner 5, with Lachner 8 and Rufinatscha 6 as 2nd and 3rd choices but, so far, he seems to have ignored my e-mail.

Volume 3 of Howard Shelley's  set of the Spohr  symphonies is out now and includes the overture to one of his early operas as a fill up to the 8th and 10th symphonies, both of which have been favourably reviewed in the latest newsletter of the Spohr Society of London.

My question is: who was Beethoven's greatest symphonic contemporary? I refer to composers actively writing symphonies between the years 1790 and 1827. possible candidates, of course, include Schubert, Spohr, Eggert( who famously "scooped" Beethoven with 3 trombones in one of his symphonies before the latter could get his own 5th symphony out ),Wilms and Beethoven's pupil, Ferdinand Reas. I'd be interested to hear members' views on these and others that I must have left of of this short list. Furthermore, starting as far back as 1790 would include also the Haydn of the London symphonies.

Yesterday, I was listening to my CPO Cd of Louise Farrenc's 1st and 3rd symphonies. The finale of No 1 never fails to give me a sort of tingling down my spine so I would nominate it as certainly one of the greatest symphonic finales, at least amongst the "unsungs". Which symphonic finale would other Forum members choose?

Some time back, some Forum members mentioned the existence of scores of some of Franz Lachner's symphonies in the archives of the British Library. However, I've forgotten the procedure for ordering copies, so could someone please take me through the process and perhaps give me an idea of how much it is likely to cost me.

 How should one go about introducing a dyed in the wool rider of war horses to the world of unsung composers?

When Alan made that amazing discovery of Johann Rufinatscha at the Tiroler Landsmuseem a couple of years back, he also mentioned that they also had CDs of other Tiroler symphonists on offer. More recently I have invested in some of these disks and I reckon the 4 symphonies of Josef Netzer make for particularly enjoyable listening.
   I am particularly impressed with the way he used the contrapuntal finale of Mozart's "Jupiter" Symphony as the model for that of his own first symphony. (Of course, Spohr did the same thing with the Overture to the Magic Flute when he wrote one of his operatic overtures).  Again, the opening movement of his 4th symphony has quite an affinity with the first movement of the Eroica Symphony. Maybe this is what attracts me so much to these works, because I feel that I am on familiar ground!

Europadisc have the entire Da Capo catalogue on special offer at £9.95 per CD until 28th of this month. As I have only a limited budget, could someone please suggest one or more recordings of really outstanding orchestral or chamber music of the Romantic period from Da Capo.

I'd like to start the ball rolling here with the Adagio non troppo from Franz Lachner's quartet in E minor, Op. 173. Generally speaking, I would say that in the field of chamber music, Franz is generally rather less melodious than his more conservatively minded kid brother, Ignaz, but hear he excels himself in beauty of melodic line.

Back in 1990, during celebrations to mark the centenary of cardinal Newman's death, I distinctly remember the BBC broadcasting a performance of a sonata for violin and piano written by him. Of course, he is better known in musical circles as the author of the poem upon which Elgar's Oratorio The Dream of Gerontius is based. Sadly, I didn't get that performance taped but it would be interesting to see if the score is available anywhere and if he wrote any other musical works.

A few months ago I was offered a download of a pair of Danish string quartets, but I decided to order the CD instead.
The composers represented are Friedrich Kuhlau (1786-1832), who was, as it were, Danish by adoption, having been born in Germany and Christian Hornemann (1840-1906). The 2 works, dating from 1832 and 1861 respectively span what I think of as the Classico-Romantic period nicely. I find them equally enjoyable. The CD is a joint Dacapo/Marco Polo production and the number is 8.224016.

I've just taken delivery of a pair of concertos by the cellist composer Nicolaus Kraft, born at Esterhartz in 1778, where his father, Antonin Kraft, was principal 'cellist in Joseph Haydn's band. They are on  Radioservis CD CR0493-2. No 2 in D dates from 1813 and is roughly classical in style whilst No 3 in A minor, written 6 years later, tends to be more dramatic. Both are in the standard 3 movement form and, in my opinion are well worth a listen. That's if you're into 'cello concertos. 

I've just taken delivery of the newly issued Naxos CD of Friedrich Witt's orchestral works, comprising the well-known Jena Symphony in C, for many years attributed to the young Beethoven, an earlier symphony in A and a flute concerto in G. All these works are good examples of a sprightly  late 18th Century style, the Jena Symphony being particularly influenced  by some of Haydn's London symphonies. To me the 2nd subject of the Jena's 1st movement bears a striking resemblance to a theme from the slow movement of one of Beethoven's Rasoumovsky quartets, whilst a tune in the finale of the A major symphony sounds rather like a French revolutionary march.
  I've just noticed that MDG have 2 more of his later symphonies in their catalogue. I wonder if anyone on this Forum can tell me if the MDG CD is worth getting.

I've just been informed by Europadisc that they're offering 20% off all Naxos recordings until 27th July. This should certainly interest UK based Forum members . As far as I can recall, UK orders over £30 with this firm come post free.
    By the way, I don't have any shares in either Europadisc or Naxos!

I tried this question with the old Forum some time ago, but, now we have so many new members, each bringing with him or her his or her own expertise, I'd like to pose it again.
  By "Scherzo" I mean a sort of "jazzed up" version of the minuet and trio. On the face of it, this type of movement would seem to have been originated by Haydn in his Op 33 string quartets, where the 3rd movements are marked "Scherzando". I would say  that the so called "minuets" of Haydn's last quartets with their Presto tempos and syncopation ( I'm particularly thinking of Op 77 No 1) are even more Scherzo like. Its interesting to note also that some of Beethoven's earliest chamber works seem to include scherzos as a matter of course. To me this indicates that, in the late 1790's, Scherzos were the latest fashion amongst composers. What I'd like to know is, who started this trend, if it wasn't Haydn himself.