Dear Members of Unsung Composers Forum. According to my knowledge based on what I read in New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians there is certain amount of Piano Concertos written by unsung Polish composers. The problem is even I searched WorldCat, BNF, ONB and many other libraries I coudn't find the piano concertos by following composers who for sure wrote at least one piano concerto. Perhaps somone knows or found a work by the following composer on some old shelf somwhere?
Polish Composers who wrote Piano Concertos:
Czerwinski Wilhelm
Grossman Ludwik (Louis, Ludwig) in C major
Hertz Michał (Michal)
Iliński Jan Stanisław (Stanislaw), Janus Stanislaus Illynski (also he wrote Symphony in F major which is lost)
Kątski Antoni (Kontski, Katski, Anton de)
Każyński Wiktor (Kazynski) in f-sharp
Sołtys Mieczysław (c-minor)
Wernik Kazimierz (Casimir)
Perhaps if You know a concerto by another polish sounding name please contact me. I am composer, pianist and promoter of polish unsung music of XIXth centry. This year I managed to finish reconstruction of polish unknown Piano Concerto by Wojciech Albert Sowiński (Grand Concerto in g-minor). I based the reconstruction/restoration on 1-piano reduction so it was a big challenge! Please feel free to contact me! Glad to be here! All the best for You!
Artur Slotwinski
Welcome to UC, Artur! Let's hope someone can help...
out of curiosity did you also search the NUKAT (http://www.bg.us.edu.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=759&Itemid=67) catalog system (Polish Libraries catalog search) - Worldcat lists some of their stuff but not as well described (and without direct links to it) and probably doesn't "mirror" all of it...?
Sowinski I've heard of - his 2 symphonies intrigue me, and we have some of his music over at IMSLP where I do some editing...- I hope your piano concerto reconstruction finds performers!
Thanks!
(Edit: A lot of music by the three Katski/de Kontskis ended up being published in France and Germany, as I recall, though not necessarily their larger works, of the existence of which I was generally unaware. Anton has a symphony in A "Fantastique" (manuscript-copy parts) (https://opac.rism.info/search?id=452016325) - in the Berlin State Library's archives, and a piano trio in E "Op.152" is in manuscript at U. Coburg... (not the same work, I think, published as Op.152, but...). He also had published some piano sonatas.)
(His brother Karol/Charles de Kontski wrote a string quintet and two string quartets that I'm aware of. IMSLP has the parts of his quartets, published by Ikelmer of Paris in 1862.)
I have played the Sowinski and thought it a vibrant and brilliant work. Hopefully your efforts will result in a recording.
Must have been a struggle as the solo score does not reveal a great deal if i recall correctly.
There is a deep seam of melody and brilliance that runs through the Polish romantics and i wager there are a few gems hidden away waiting to be found.
Thal
Dear Artur,
Welcome to the forum. Giles Enders has been in contact with me regarding some of the composers whose concerti you list, and while I am presently unable to help I shall certainly keep any eye out for these scores. Since you are clearly very knowledgeable about Polish Romantic piano concerti, I wonder if you know the whereabouts of Krogulski's 2nd Piano Concerto in B minor (1832). I must admit I haven't begun an exhaustive search for it yet, but I thought I would ask in case you knew (if indeed it has survived) and could save me the effort.
Sincere good wishes,
Gareth Vaughan
I have for a long time wondered if the complete "premier concerto" by Edouard Wolff survives in any form anywhere. I have the first edition of his "Grand Allegro de Concert" Op39, published by Maurice Schlesinger in Paris (M.S.3208) which clearly states (in small print) on the title page that "cet allegro est tiré du Premier Concerto"! I know that Mike Spring did make some initial enquiries a few years back but nothing came of this - and I don't know how much research he did! The score of Op39 does clearly mark out the tutti & solo passages but no further clues to instrumentation etc. are given. Nevertheless, it would be a clear contender for inclusion here, even if, as it seems, it is only a "half lost" concerto!
Hello Martin
I'm aware of the Wolff's piece, I found a digital pdf copy in my internet search. I wonder what other movements would be if they really existed. I must have missed the inscription that this is the first movement of concerto - in my copy there is no such text, but I only presumed that it would be a torso of a concerto like abbandoned A-major Concerto by Chopin from which we have the Allegro de Concert with the clear tutti and solo fragments. Perhaps further opus numbers contain the other movements. What i presume if there is some Nocturne op. 4x+ by Wolff and it is in the parallel key and also if there is a rondo in the main key, they could be attached to the op. 39 and be the subject of further reconstruction of the orchestral accompaniments. But this procedure is very doubtful in terms of realism and truth what Wolff really intended. I looked through the score of my version of op. 39 and it is really promissing work - diffcult and rich. . My I ask for pdf of Your version to compare? I am going to send shortly my copy to You in private message. Let's compare editions.
All the best,
Artur
I would be highly interested in finding some 19th-Century concertante works for cello by Polish composers. There just don't seem to be any at all. Anything come to mind?
Start a new thread, then, please, Jim.
1915 apparently doesn't count, though :( (Stojowski)
No Piano Concerto written by Stojowski is lost. If you are referring to No. 3 in F minor, it doesn't exist. I believe it was a misread during cataloging - early draft of Piano Concerto in F-sharp minor, Op. 3 somehow became Piano Concerto No. 3 in F minor.
That is correct, FBerwald. I believe I was one of the first to point that out to a rather embarrassed librarian at LoC. But I must also admit to not quite following this thread. How did Stojowski's "lost" PC emerge from Jim wanting to talk about 19th century Polish concertante cello music?
He was referring to the fact that Concertstuck for Cello and Orchestra which is yet to be recorded. Strangely the Polish Music Journal has yet to correct the mistake regarding the phantom 3rd concerto. It's still listed under works in manuscript.
He=Eric. Sorry about that.
Thanks, guys. I'm with you now.
Dear friends
A bunch of news hear. First I'd like to thank that I am note alone in my mission and search for scores of Polish Piano Concerti and Symphonies as well. I e-mailed Staatsbibliothek Berlin for a pdf copy of Antoni Kątski Symphony in A-major and they replied with an info that it would be a cost of 90 euro. If it was 90 polish zloty: fine, but 90 euro is 360 polish zloty - for that you can buy Blu ray player of very good shape. i proposed them 20 euro which is 80 zloty - for that you can buy a score by Schott or another publishing house. They have very high prices, perhaps it is because of taxes... Perhaps somone is from Berlin and could xerox it for lower price - I can refund 20 euro for that person.
Another discovery is Adagio and Allegro Concertans by Franciszek Mirecki (that guy famous of Symphony in c-minor). It seems to be kind of Concertante work, scored for piano and strings. I found that score in Aarhus Denmark. Unfortunately they seem to be very official and buraeucratic if may say so. The "commander in chief" librarian replied that they cannot make a photocopy for me because I am private person. They can do it only if National Library of Poland will request that, because they don't make xeros for foreigners. For goodness sake - we are EU, we are not foreigners, Poland is a member of the whole European family - I belive in that despite the dangerous times. The same request here - is there a Dannish citizen among us? As a Pole I can refund circa 20 euro for that person who will xero it for me from Aarhus library. Here is the address: DET KGL. BIBLIOTEK / ROYAL DANISH LIBRARY - Aarhus
VICTOR ALBECKS VEJ 1
8000 AARHUS C
DENMARK
and Kątski Symphony A-major in Berlin: http://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/ (Symphony does not appear in web search but it is there, the librarian confirmed that they have it in archive)
Looking forward to another news on Polish forgotten or lost Piano Concertos or Symphonies. I would sell my kidney for Władysław Żeleński Symphonies from which we have only Trauerklange (an Adagio movement from 1st or 2nd Symphony, I don't remember). I made midi realization few years ago - promissing music, really making an impression how would sound other movements. How sounds In Tatra Mountains Overture I know and it's gorgeus, proficient and valuable in artistic terms, work of gifted composer.
All the best for You, Dear Friends,
Artur
Some libraries are charging a lot of money nowadays to copy scores. At the British Library it used to be very cheap. Now they have a stupid system whereby it costs £30 (or thereabouts) to copy up to 100 pages from a single score. Sounds all right BUT you can't do more than one score for the £30. So if you have 2 scores of e.g. 20 pages each that will cost you £60. And if it is a short piano piece of only 6-7 pages it is still £30 and if the score is 101 pages long you must pay £30 for the first 100 and another £30 for the one extra page. This is crazy.
Your Danish Library seems unnecessarily hostile too. But let me tell you about the Municipal Library in Prague. They cannot scan a score for me; only photocopy it. And if they photocopy it they will not send it - so I can only get it if I physically take myself to Prague. Some Italian libraries I dealt with about 10 years ago were very inexpensive and very helpful, so long as they were paid by money transfer in advance: then the work got done well and was sent quickly.
With some libraries you would think they didn't want people to do any research. Just sit on their collections and not let anyone else see them. I don't understand it.
Re Antoine Kontski/Katski, I'm reminded that his Op.90 is "Scherzo pour piano tiré de la 2me Symphonie. (en Si)." published by Bernard Latte in 1845... the description of the Sinfonie fantastique at Berlin suggests that even if "en Si" refers only to the B major of the Scherzo itself, not to the symphony it's extracted from, there seems to be no corresponding movement in the Kontski Sinfonie fantastique (assuming all its movements are represented there- maybe not?), so here's another work to look for (the full 2nd symphony, that is, if it's anywhere anymore.)
Re: Kątski Symphony
I am in contact with the library in Berlin. They have it: Symphonie fantastique by Kątski, it is 84 pages manuscript(!)-according to the info it's an orchestral score or just parts, but from parts a score can be created in Finale.... I am now negotiating reasonable priced copy. I asked them to make xero and send it by trad. mail. Maybe it will be cheaper than scanning...I don't know. They offered free xero after negotiations so I will pay only for post. Stay tuned... :)
Arthur, I'd be happy to order the Danish score on behalf of our institute. Please e-mail me privately at iljajj@outlook.com.
Years ago I went through different dictionaries of music and found mentions about the following piano concertos by Polish composers:
Antoni Stolpe - in F (ca. 1869)
Ignacy Krzyżanowski,
Michał Bergson - C-to Symphonique i B flat minor op. 39
Emil Śmietański - in F shrp minor op. 25, Konzertstuck in d minor
Henryk Bobiński - no. 1 in E minor op. 8 (1900), no. 2 in A minor op. 15
Emanuel Kania
Juliusz Zarębski - in fact there are doubts it was really comosed
Karol Tausig - concerto and Polonaise
Juliusz Wertheim - in B minor op. 1
Witold Frieman - 2 concertos, no. 1 C-to Fantasy (1911)
Apolinary Szeluto - probably 6 concertos
Raul Koczalski - 6 ctos
Stanisław Nawrocki - 5 concertos, no. 2 "With Fanfares" (there exists old radio recording) + Polish Fantasy in D minor
Aleksander Wielhorski - Polish Fantasy op. 10 (there exists old radio recording)
Borys Lomani - Fantasy
Michał Świeżyński (there exists old radio recording - I do not have it)
Tadeusz Paciorkiewicz - two concertos (there exist old radio recordings)
and for sure many more
I'd be interested in finding any concertante music for cello from this period. There is a scena by Stolpe, but it appears to be for cello and string quartet, not orchestra. There is also the Stojowski Konzertstück, but that's about it. I can't believe that that's all there is.
QuoteYears ago I went through different dictionaries of music and found mentions about the following piano concertos by Polish composers
But do you know how many of these are extant? That's the really important question? One could do a useful bit of research here - and it need not take very long with the internet.
Yes, that's exactly the point here. Lists of names are one thing, but whether these works have actually survived is quite another...
The Bergson manuscript (at Northwestern) shows that it's an organ concerto, not a piano concerto, judging from http://www.worldcat.org/title/concerto-symphonique/oclc/52544298 (http://cornell.worldcat.org/title/concerto-symphonique/oclc/52544298). (Or maybe that's of a different concerto symphonique of his - http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/music/gmc/mss715al.jpg (http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/music/gmc/mss715al.jpg) shows that the organ one is in E minor. Hrm.)
Several of these works definitely exist in orchestral parts in the Fleisher Collection, and others at least in reduction (for what it's worth), e.g. Bobinski's first concerto I know I've seen in reduction (@ IMSLP)... Worldcat shows the Andante cantabile of the latter's 2nd concerto ("Deuxième concerto (la-mineur) : pour deux pianos à quatre mains : op. 12 : andante cantabile tirédu concerto"; in an arrangement for solo piano by the composer, a work dedicated to Paderewski, in the NUKAT catalog...) (Bobinski, first concerto, 1890 score & parts (https://know.freelibrary.org/Record/455946)...)
I don't see Szeluto's piano concertos offhand though Worldcat does list his Op.98 -violin- concerto autograph score (1948)... (is user violinconcerto familiar with?...)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 26 March 2017, 02:39
I don't see Szeluto's piano concertos offhand though Worldcat does list his Op.98 -violin- concerto autograph score (1948)... (is user violinconcerto familiar with?...)
Yes, he is.
Please note: 1948 is well outside the timeframe of UC. We'd have to be satisfied about the idiom of any such music.
Well, fwiw his 1930/31 string quartet is described (in an extremely negative Musicweb review of a CD of 3 of his chamber works) as "German late-Romantic" (as are the other 2 works). (All that seems to be available on disc of his is that CD and a recording of some songs. So it may be hard to say. Will see if I can find a late score to borrow, read through and describe though.)
I just listened to the Violin concerto. It is also late Romantic.
QuoteSeveral of these works definitely exist in orchestral parts in the Fleisher Collection
I could find only the 1st PC of Bobinski in score and parts in Fleisher.
QuoteI just listened to the Violin concerto. It is also late Romantic.
That's a relief. But please remember: it's a constant job for us to police the boundaries of UC's remit, particularly post-1918. It's up to contributors to consult us
first about music that falls outside our timeframe rather than us having constantly to play catch-up.
Hi violinconcerto,
Where you've found Szeluto's Violin concerto? Some two years ago it was announced that Ewelina Nowicka was scheduled to play it but Ii did not trace any info on this performance.
More info here (via Google Translate):
<<In 2001, she performed with the National Polish Radio Symphony Orchestra in Katowice the forgotten Violin Concerto Op. 70 by Ludomir Różycki (released ten years later on Acte Préalable AP0219). In the following years she undertook premiere performances of further, forgotten violin concertos - in 2004 it was the Violin Concerto by Ignacy Jan Paderewski, which premiered with the Baltic Philharmonic in 2005 - Violin Concerto by Piotr Perkowski, in 2011 - Violin Concerto in G minor op. 67 Mieczysław Weinberg (at the "Probaltica" Festival in Toruń) and in 2014 - Violin Concerto in A major Op. 98 Apollo Cheeluto (also within the Probaltica Festival).>>
Quote from: markniew on Sunday 26 March 2017, 18:04
Hi violinconcerto,
Where you've found Szeluto's Violin concerto? Some two years ago it was announced that Ewelina Nowicka was scheduled to play it but Ii did not trace any info on this performance.
I got a copy from the soloist, if I remember correctly.
Hello markniew,
I've got a copy of the performance of Szeluto's concerto from Ewelina Nowicka too,
but after listening to it twice I don't think that it is a really great piece - the contemporary
concertos e.g. of Bacewicz and J.Fitelberg are much more rewarding.
Thank you guys.
I will contact the violinist also. In fact I do not expect a gem but it is interesting enough to me as I try to collect Polish music for years - especially piano concertos but also other musical forms.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 25 March 2017, 22:31
Yes, that's exactly the point here. Lists of names are one thing, but whether these works have actually survived is quite another...
Hi Alan,
you are right. Knowing the names and the list of compositions is one thing and existance of scores and recordings that's completely other thing. I am not "notes-literate" so can valuate the music only by hearing it. As I mentined years ago the commercial recordings of Polsih music were for years unavailable. In recent times the situation is getting better but so many music is still not registered. I know that some pf concertos were recorded for Polish radio archives but I never got them off radio. Of course the music I mean is from the time beyond the interest of US forum. I do not believe the 9th century concertos were ever registered by PR.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 26 March 2017, 18:32
More info here (via Google Translate):
..... In the following years she undertook premiere performances of further, forgotten violin concertos - in 2004 it was the Violin Concerto by Ignacy Jan Paderewski, which premiered with the Baltic Philharmonic in 2005
Dear Alan, am I reading this right... a Violin concerto by Paderewski or is this a typo?
No idea! I wondered about this, of course, but haven't had the time to investigate...
The Polish Music Journal Vol. 4, No. 2, Winter 2001 has a comprehensive list of works by Paderewski. The Violin Concerto 1886-88 is described as "Destroyed, only violin part for and mvt. remained. Reconstructed by A. Roezler, Premiere: Warszawa 1991 S. Tomasik - violin, E. Wolanin - piano." I'm not quite sure what "only violin part for and mvt. remained" means. Does it mean piano/violin score of whole work plus one complete (i. e. full score) movement, or what? If only the violin part of the work is extant any reconstruction must be highly conjectural.
The Paderewski "violin concerto" is in fact an allegro de concert which he left in an unfinished state in piano reduction, but which has been recorded twice as far as I know. Firstly with piano accompaniment, by Konstanty Kulka, on a Dux CD consisting of his complete works for violin and piano. Then there is a CD issued by Polskie Radio (PRCD 143), with Slawomir Tomasik, which has all the works for violin and piano but the allegro de concert is performed with orchestra. It seems that both reconstructions/supplementations were done by Arnold Rezler, with some contribution by Tomasik. The notes also state that Paderewski also left some sketches for a 2nd & 3rd movement but probably not enough for a realistic and sympathetic reconstruction. However, all I will say is that it is a great pity that the work was never completed, certainly going on what we have been left!
Thank you, Martin. Very informative.
Indeed. Thanks, Martin. I have the Dux CD - must give it a spin.
The Allegro de Concert (violin & piano version) turns out to be a fine, if conventional piece. The violin & orchestra version would make an attractive filler for a CD of other such music.
Re Tausig's concerto isn't it one of several works of that Liszt pupil that's been missing for ages (according to Walker's discussion of Tausig's life and works in his Liszt bio?)
The existence at one point of concertante works of some kind by Antoni Kontski/Katski for piano and orchestra seems to be testified to by a brief bio of him (... my Polish is non-existent, sorry, but here's the link) - https://books.google.com/books?id=tDIpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA180 (https://books.google.com/books?id=tDIpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA180) - (the bio, which seems to mention something with piano and orchestra, is on pp.180-81.) Not sure it claims they were called concertos, so maybe the still-extant op.90 suffices iirc, or something like that. Anycase will look further.
Dannreuther in one of the editions of Groves mentions the PC of Tausig in a brief list of his works, but no one has found it yet and there seems to be some doubt as to whether it ever actually existed. Similarly, the PC by Zarebski, though mentioned in some sources, is thought now never to have existed.
QuoteThe existence at one point of concertante works of some kind by Antoni Kontski/Katski for piano and orchestra seems to be testified to by a brief bio of him (... my Polish is non-existent, sorry, but here's the link) - - (the bio, which seems to mention something with piano and orchestra, is on pp.180-81.)
One fragment says as follows:
"Antoni Katski has published a great number of works for piano and orchestra. He writes with great ease, his compositions are liked and sought after by amateurs and artists although they are difficult. We [the editor] gave in the French edition of this dictionary a complete catalog of his works till around 1857 but now their number exceeds two hundred works."
Perhaps the French edition is available and something interesting could be found there?
The website below (unfortunately in Polish) mentions two piano concertos: in E flat minor (before 1863) and in F major
http://culture.pl/pl/tworca/antoni-katski (http://culture.pl/pl/tworca/antoni-katski)
Ah. Thank you.
A little birdie tells me that the Sowinski PC is to be released by Act Prealable, subsequent to a reconstruction of the orchestral parts and a superb, but low quality private recording.
This is top notch stuff. If you like Czerny, you will love this.
Concertingly,
Thal
I take it we're talking about Wojciech Adalbert Sowiński (1803-1880). If so, there seems to be more than one PC...
Are we talking about this private recording? It is the only one recording - performed by myself with my orchestration of tutti and composition of lacking orchestral material (the accompaniments). Apparently there are plans of releasing a CD but no budget for that is reserved for that purpose. I will never agree to release that private recording on any CD - it is only a promotional youtube video - good 1st and 2nd movement but with lot of "issues" with the 3rd. Acte Prealable? Mr Jarnicki are You here??? :o :o :o Once again I don't agree to release on a CD this recording and the only one existing today to my knowledge; the only performable version is this one (my restoration) or some one just found the original score??: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC4Tp1SeJQw&t=1006s
With all due respect,
Artur Slotwinski - founder, performer and the author of restoration and owner of the score of Wojciech Sowinski/Artur Slotwinski Piano Concerto in G-minor - the score is protected under the law (ZAiKS - Polish Copyright Agency)
Well, we need further information from thalbermad's little birdie...
I e-mailed him to reveal this mysterious little birdy and asked other urgent questions about my case...
It doesn't matter who the birdie is - only what information it has...
I will make 3 points.
1. I heard that a recording of the Sowinski Piano Concerto is scheduled for release by Act Prealable for 2018.
2. Anybody in the universe is entitled to record this work after constructing their own orchestral parts from the extant material. A talented student could do it as it is a piano centric work. Nobody is forced to beg permission from anybody.
3. Although I am respectful of what has already been done, no label that values their reputation would commercially release the performance that is on you tube.
I have never heard such a fuss over a simple statement.
Concertingly.
Thal
Thanks for the information. The fuss is, obviously, quite unjustified.