I have just come across this rather interesting announcement http://sinfoniaiuventus.pl/the-world-premiere-of-anton-rubinsteins-moses-called-the-undertaking-of-the-century/ (http://sinfoniaiuventus.pl/the-world-premiere-of-anton-rubinsteins-moses-called-the-undertaking-of-the-century/). I know there are some here who may have reservations about Rubinstein's abilities as a composer - especially of over-long works with perhaps a limited melodic content and structual weakness - but I am certainly looking forward to this forthcoming release with more than a little excitement!
I'm sure we'll all be interested in this when the recording (on Warner) comes out. Thanks for the heads-up, Martin. The conductor is Michail Jurowski, father of Vladimir.
That's great news. Although I find his symphonies less than compelling, often dull, his works for solo piano, piano and orchestra are wonderful to listen to, and so is the opera The Demon. When i first heard The Demon I was astonished at just how entertaining it was. I'm looking forward to this new release. Thanks for pointing it out.
Thanks for this really fascinating news.
Yes indeed. I fear this is going to be something of an expensive "must buy" for me when it is released. I never thought I would get to hear this piece. I like The Demon a lot and am disappointed that there is still no ideal recording of that opera. But this article augurs well for the quality of the performance (and, one hopes, the recording) of Moses.
The article definitely mentions a recording:
Quote...the simultaneously scheduled recordings of an album for Warner
I meant it augurs well for the quality of the recording. Sorry - could have been clearer.
...and I could have read you more carefully. Apologies.
Oh, I am interested too! Hope the next opera to be recorded will be "Christus", which Rubinstein wrote for the (apparently great) tenor Raimund von zur-Mühlen, with whom my singing teacher had studied in Berlin. The 2003 Tyumen performance was available only in excepts.
There is what seems to be a complete recording of "Christus" on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1Os9HJar3A&t=3091s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1Os9HJar3A&t=3091s)
but it sounds as if it was recorded about 10 miles away from the venue!!! At least it does on my PC.
The sound is pretty dire, unfortunately, and isn't it also heavily cut (I thought Christus was a four-hour long leviathan)? Somewhere (I can't immediately put my hands on it) I have a radio recording of Rubinstein's two-hour long oratorio Paradise Lost, a much earlier work (from 1858), which I think is just as persuasive in its own way as The Demon. In those two works at least his shortcomings as symphonist don't seem to have been an impediment to him producing effective large scale vocal works. A recording of Moses is a very exciting prospect.
I think you are right, Mark - judging by the timing given I reckon it must be cut. Isn't Christus meant to be almost as long (if not longer) than Moses?
I would love to hear Paradise Lost, if you can find your recording. Perhaps Rubinstein was more at home with vocal/choral music and the dramatic structure provided by an opera/oratorio libretto, than with purely orchestral music - and, perhaps especislly, the symphony.
I'm currently digitising my whole CD collection (just reached Dietrich, so there's a lo-o-ong way to go), and the odd item has gone missing in the process, so I can't guarantee to lay my hands on Paradise Lost anytime soon. Once I do, and assuming there aren't any copyright issues, I'll happily upload it here, of course. That said, we'd better return to Moses.
In the category of over-lenghty "religious opera biographies", there is even today such a tapeworm: Messiaen's "St François d'Assise". It goes for 4 1/2 hours... One also wonders what would Wagner's "Buddha" have become, if ever finished. I was in Paris when Messiaen's publisher showed me his premises, They were just working on a new act's score (each volume needed a year of work by a large staff of copyists/editors - who would regurlarly get nightmares about this piece...
But I think one should still appreciate Rubinstein's Symphonies and Piano Concertos. Those Marco Polo CDs were quite a pioneering work, although with some quite unsatisfactory results. On the other hand, the Piano Concertos CDs are quite good.
A recording of a 1999 live performance of Rubinstein's oratorio (later sacred opera) Das verlorene Paradies (Paradise Lost) is now available in the Downloads Board (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6754.msg71355.html#msg71355).
A rare piece. Thanx Mark
Jerry
I echo those thanks most warmly.
Most appreciated Mark!
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 22 February 2018, 22:24
I would love to hear Paradise Lost, if you can find your recording. Perhaps Rubinstein was more at home with vocal/choral music and the dramatic structure provided by an opera/oratorio libretto, than with purely orchestral music - and, perhaps especislly, the symphony.
There's a recording available to buy from Premiere Opera - http://premiereopera.net/product/das-verlorene-paradies-by-rubinstein-berlin-1975/ (http://premiereopera.net/product/das-verlorene-paradies-by-rubinstein-berlin-1975/) - I bought it a few years ago, though would need to listen to it again before passing comment.
CD announced for September 7th release:
https://www.mdt.co.uk/rubinstein-moses-polish-orchestra-sinfonia-iuventus-michail-jurowski-warner-3cds.html (https://www.mdt.co.uk/rubinstein-moses-polish-orchestra-sinfonia-iuventus-michail-jurowski-warner-3cds.html)
Thanks, it's quite a bargain. My order is in.
3 CDs for £14.60!!
Thanks for this Savoir_Faire - my order is also in!
...and my order's now in too.
Excerpts are now available here:
https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8475767--anton-rubinstein-moses (https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8475767--anton-rubinstein-moses)
Much declamation; will there be any tunes?
A new full pocket score has been issued by Musikproduktion Höflich which could be read through to help answer the question. I have neither this nor any other score, nor does IMSLP, but the score is more accessible than many another score we know of :)
The vocal score seems to be online - part 1 subpart 1 is @ U. Coburg (http://nbn-resolving.de/urn:nbn:de:bvb:70-dtl-0000024487) for example.
Well, my copy arrived this morning and I've settled down to listen to it. And so far my worst fears have been realised. This isn't some great undiscovered masterpiece because Rubinstein just didn't have in him to write one. So for long stretches there's featureless, melody-less singing - perfectly pleasant, but 'perfectly pleasant' isn't good enough for a score of this scale and ambition. And the work is nearly 3 hrs 20 mins long! Oh dear...
...and after 7 tracks of CD1 I've given up (for the moment). I'm off to watch the paint drying on the back door I repainted earlier this morning.
Oh, by the way, the performance sounds committed and well recorded.
That is certainly disappointing. However, perhaps we should not be surprised. The author of the wikipedia article on Rubinstein writes:
The term 'sacred opera' (geistliche Oper in German) was invented by Rubinstein to denote staged works with "use of polyphonic choruses and a sober, edifying style relying on 'exalted declamation'."
So melody was not of prime importance. However, no matter how talented a composer one might be (and I think we would agree that Rubinstein was not in the first class here) over 3 hours of declamation, no matter how "exalted", is unlikely to sustain the interest of even the most ardent disciple. Perhaps we should look to the "profane" operas, like Feramors or The Merchant Kalashnikov for more truly operatic inspiration.
I turned this afternoon to Goldmark's The Queen of Sheba - a quite different genre, of course, but often derided as second-rate. Well, by comparison that opera sounds like a towering masterpiece. 'Sober' doesn't do justice to the interminable bore that is Rubinstein's Moses.
My copy awaits when I get home on Monday. I am so looking forward to it now :( but, as Gareth says, it was always a long shot that it would prove to be a neglected masterpiece.
I want to like Rubinstein - and there are plenty of his compositions (and parts of his compositions) that I like very much. I enjoy "The Demon" and I just wonder if his other non-sacred stage works contain anything like the inspiration found in the best pages of that opera. But Tchaikovsky did not think highly of "Nero", alas. Apparently, after playing through the score, he wrote in his diary: "It infuriates me [...] The reason I play this loathsome thing is the consciousness of my own superiority - and that keeps up my strength. You think you are writing abominably, but then you look at this drivel which people have performed in all seriousness, and your soul feels lighter." Poor Rubinstein...
Moses, like most of Rubinstein's larger-scale works contains impressive passages, but long stretches of meandering or huffing and puffing. I want to like his music too, but for me he's among the most disappointing of oft-touted great forgotten composers. Having started CD3, I'm off to check the paint on my back door again...
My copy will arrive next week, but I am prepared not to receive a major Rubinstein. Just wonder what will be of "Christus", if this will ever be recorded. Can we therefore still consider "Daemon" as his best vocal piece?
Love that old quote from the R. Allen Lott book (From Paris to Peoria) about Rubinstein "As a composer he was the world's greatest pianist, and as a pianist he was the world's greatest composer..."
I just think he had an inflated view of his ability - especially when he composed at length. And Moses is loooong.
I haven't received my shipment yet, so I decided to 'treat' myself with the snippets available from prestoclassical. It doesn't sound boring to me, but then, I like Rubinstein. As for the length, I got through all 24 pieces of "Kammeniy-Ostrov" in one sitting, so I don't find three hours of "Moses" at all intimidating.
Tchaikovsky made some snippy comments about "Neron" but the ballet music, as well as the various excerpts recorded by Caruso and Hvorostovsky, tell a different story. Best regards, Gene Schiller
I found the snippets intriguing too. But that's precisely the point: perhaps if Rubinstein had 'snipped' a large chunk of his material, he might have ended up with a better piece. Or not: because the material's not interesting enough in the first place. IMHO, of course.
Sorry, but to be blunt: the ability to 'get through' a piece in one sitting may say more about the listener's capacity to endure than Rubinstein's capacity to compose...
;D
My own favourite unsung, Felix Draeseke, also committed the crime of over-ambitious gigantism in composing his Christus. Now I think Draeseke was a fine composer who achieved genuine greatness in certain of his compositions, but in all honesty Christus, like Rubinstein's Moses, is a monumental bore. And at 4 hours 54 mins there's even more to get through...
You are perfectly right, Alan - I once had that Draeseke 5CD set and listened to it once. Then a friend, who absolutely wanted to have this in his collection, inherited it from me :-)
If only the Draeseke had received a performance of the quality of Moses; but it probably wouldn't have made much difference.
@Alan: Sacheverell Sitwell's opinion of Rubinstein (in his 1934 biography of Liszt): "A fountain of bad music"...
Some biographical details, just coming to my mind, regarding Tchaikovsky and Rubinstein - besides the more famous ones.
1: Tchaikovsky, in a letter to Mme von Meck (after she had engaged Debussy as a private "holiday" pianist and piano teacher - to join her, her family and her entourage to travel in Switzerland and Italy), thanks her for a photo of "Mr. Bussy" and finds that his hands and face (!) are similar to Anton Rubinstein's. He also expresses his hopes that one day the young Frenchman will become as famous as Rubinstein...
2: There is a duet in Tchaikosky's "Yolanta", whose theme is borrowed from a song in the Italian style by Rubinstein.
3: In Tchaikovsky's home in Klin (if I remember well; I was there in 1995), there is a big Beethoven portrait hanging on the same wall just under a bigger one of Rubinstein... Perhaps he placed them near to eachother to show face similarities.
Interesting - thanks.
A thought: is Rubinstein's best music to be found among his chamber compositions?
Last night I just re-listened (after many years!) to Rubinstein's "Ocean" Symphony - and really enjoyed it. An excellent work, it could stand alongside with every single Raff and Bruch Symphony. And 72 minutes of TT should not diminish this work's qualities!
Would have nothing against re-recording it myself (Utopia Unlimited), but this old Marco Polo version is excellent; they used the Slovak Philharmonic, the country's best ensemble.
I've always thought that expanding his Symphony No.2 from four to seven movements was a mistake on Rubinstein's part, but I'm going to give Gunzenhauser's recording another listen...
These were just my thoughts before starting my yesterday's listening, Alan, but I am convinced now of the expanded version.
Agree, Adriano, heard the "Ocean" symphony in my distant youth as first contact with Rubenstein and have never stopped loving it. On other things, I too want to like his other music, some of it is not so easy for me.
I am pleased to hear this, jimsemadeni :-)
I actually also like his concertante works for piano, and, as already mentioned in earlier postings, "The Demon".
Just in case you don't know: In his ballet "La Pentola magica" (a real Russian pastiche), Respighi re-orchestrated Rubinstein's "Dance of the Tartar Archers" from the latter opera's ballet music - and it was a real joy for me to conduct this, after also the orchestra adored it.
I don't think there's any doubt that Rubinstein 2 in its final, seven-movement form is a fine work. It has melodies galore and Gunzenhauser's performance is very good indeed and the excellent SlovakPO play very well for him. Thanks, Adriano, for encouraging me to give it another listen!
You've come up with the perfect description of Rubinstein's music in general, and why I find it so appealing.....melodies galore!!
Thanks, Alan; let's hope other members in here are going to re-listen and judge this work too :-)
Mind you, the MDG recording of No.2 (original version) is very fine:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/anton-rubinstein-symphonie-nr-2-ozean/hnum/6742081 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/anton-rubinstein-symphonie-nr-2-ozean/hnum/6742081)
I wouldn't do without his 2nd Cello Concerto. It is beyond doubt the most original of the works, in conception, that he ever labeled a "concerto", and brimming with melody from start to finish. It is of interest to note that the next opus number after Moses is the Piano Konzertstück, another fine work.
We have deliberately allowed this thread to broaden because the question of Rubinstein's capacity to compose at length is at issue here. So, yes, we need to return to Moses, but let's not neglect the broader question...
Thanks, John. I greatly appreciate your contribution here - especially as I'm a Rubinstein sceptic!
Also, and I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, Rubinstein's Violin Concerto is another example of how wonderfully he created compact and melodically interesting compositions. It's a sadly neglected concerto but it doesn't overstay it's welcome and there's a general sunniness that makes the listener smile throughout. I also agree with JimL with regard to the 2nd Cello Concerto - another work that I adore.
The VC's a fine work too - I agree.
The VC is a lovely, heart-warming work - and actually quite serious for a lot of the time. I wonder whether the challenge of writing for the violin actually brought out the best in Rubinstein? I'd say it was his most underrated major piece.
Just in case: the libretto of "Moses" can be downloaded from here (the link is not indicated in detail in the CD booklet, they only placed a QR code sticker on the box back):
http://moses.warnermusicpoland.com.pl/libretto.pdf?
It's a 32-page affair, but in three languages: Polish, English and German (original)
Peu à peu I am listening to it... It contains a lot of excellent music, but, really, it's just too much of it - and too long (3hrs 18 min). Some dramatic passages with chorus are impressive, some arias very beautiful indeed. One should consider this re-discovery as valuable.
Max Bruch's "Moses" is quite a bore in comparison, but it goes only for 115 minutes :-)
I'm warming to Moses as CD3 progresses. Much high drama and expressive writing.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 12 September 2018, 17:14
I'm warming to Moses as CD3 progresses. Much high drama and expressive writing.
So, I am confused then. Did you leave your 1-star Amazon review five days ago without having listened to the whole thing? Or were you so eager to listen again to the "
tedium" of this "
3 hour, 20 minute-long bore" that you returned to this mammoth opus and had a New Testament epiphany?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rubinstein-Polish-Orchestra-Sinfonia-Iuventus/dp/B07FDVGWHK/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1536771574&sr=1-1&keywords=rubinstein+moses
Amazon reviews can always be reviewed or eliminated 8)
Quote from: hadrianus on Wednesday 12 September 2018, 18:10
Amazon reviews can always be reviewed or eliminated 8)
Indeed. ;D
Though perhaps we should (
as we are so often exhorted on UC) give a piece of music due consideration before publicly recommending or, in this case, so harshly condemning? I'm sure all those behind this project deserve that degree of respect at the very least. It might well be some years before (or never at all) that a prospective listener/purchaser returns to that listing on Amazon. Imagine if your own recordings were dismissed so cavalierly.
I stand by what I said in my review, I'm afraid. The longueurs simply don't make up for the few interesting passages. There has been no epiphany - I'd've given the piece no stars at all if it had been possible. I'm sure there will be other reviews - and I'm entitled to my opinion - cavalier dismissal and all. I'm assuming those who disagree have all listened to the work themselves...
Nevertheless, out of respect for those who feel affronted by my Amazon review, I have deleted it.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 12 September 2018, 18:44
I stand by what I said in my review, I'm afraid. The longueurs simply don't make up for the few interesting passages. There has been no epiphany - I'd've given the piece no stars at all if it had been possible. I'm sure there will be other reviews - and I'm entitled to my opinion - cavalier dismissal and all. I'm assuming those who disagree have all listened to the work themselves...
Nevertheless, out of respect for those who feel affronted by my Amazon review, I have deleted it.
Oh my goodness, please do not think that I was "affronted" by your review and,
of course you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure that I or anyone else has ever suggested otherwise so I'm not sure why you would think so. Or think that I was "affronted"? Please don't worry unduly about that...
I was more wryly amused that your review was not just written but posted by Amazon on the same day you'd listened to this behemoth and surprised to see it, when you have always so eloquently and
quite rightly bemoaned unsung music not getting a fair shot because reviewers, amateur and most sadly professional too, have not given it a fair hearing or taken time to get to know it. That is all.
No. No offence taken, I'm not one of those middle-aged snowflakes who gets bupset at other people's beliefs or hairstyles or simply their youth, as so often seems to be the case when I listen to my peers! ::)
And my sometime enthusiasm for R's music has, I have to admit, waned since I last posted here (I had no idea it was so long ago) so based on comments here and the samples I've heard, I won't be pursuing that venerable Israelite across the desert! ;D I may revisit the Ocean, though, tomorrow (should the weather hold out). :)
Quote from: hadrianus on Wednesday 12 September 2018, 17:05
Peu à peu I am listening to it... It contains a lot of excellent music, but, really, it's just too much of it - and too long (3hrs 18 min). Some dramatic passages with chorus are impressive, some arias very beautiful indeed. One should consider this re-discovery as valuable.
I must say that, having admittedly only listened to the first CD so far, rather to my surprise I'm much more inclined to agree with hadrianus' comment than pan the work as worthless. It is certainly static, but some of the passages are quite beautiful and others are really stirring and dramatic. I have no appetite tonight to listen to any more, and certainly not twice as much again, but I found the music on the whole rather better than I thought it would be, and it certainly couldn't have a more committed performance.
QuoteI'm not one of those middle-aged snowflakes who gets upset at other people's beliefs
That's good to hear. But really,
Moses is very hard going overall. I'm amazed that anyone would think otherwise. But then, I find
Siegfried mostly extraordinarily tedious - and as for Act 1 of
Parsifal, well what a snooze-fest. And my opinion of Mahler has altered radically in recent years - and not for the better. So maybe I'm becoming increasingly intolerant of large-scale compositions that demand more from me than I'm prepared to give.
I'm currently listening to CD2 of
Moses and I just don't find any pleasure in the tuneless declamation. It's not as if it's all well sung: Evelina Dobračeva, for example, has an unpleasantly harsh and unsteady voice as Asnath.
And the hype surrounding this project is extraordinary: the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung has hailed this 'The undertaking of the century'. It isn't. Not remotely. Conductor Michail Jurowski has said: 'The world needs someone like Moses today'. Pardon? What on earth does he mean? And Twoja Muza apparently believes this to be 'the most perfect opera'. Really? Sorry, we're being taken for a ride here.
What I will say is that I can't think of anything like
Moses. But the question I ask myself is: do I really want to listen to it ever again? And do I believe the hype? No. And no.
Why should one delete his negative opinion? It's your opinion, freedom of thought and speech I hope! There's a Dutch saying 'over smaak valt niet te twisten' (something like 'There's no accounting for taste') but we really do have to discuss opinions!
You are right, Yaskovsky, that's why I put a sunglasses' smiley after my sentence...
But I also surely shook my head after reading the exaggerated Frankfurt and Polish praises - and Jurowski's judgement!
Quote from: M. Yaskovsky on Thursday 13 September 2018, 07:03
Why should one delete his negative opinion? It's your opinion, freedom of thought and speech I hope! There's a Dutch saying 'over smaak valt niet te twisten' (something like 'There's no accounting for taste') but we really do have to discuss opinions!
You are absolutely correct, Yaskovsky, and thankfully and quite rightly nobody here, least of all me, called for the review to be deleted or was personally offended by the opinions espoused. I explained at length in a previous comment why I thought a published review merited more consideration than one listen but even so I did not suggest it be deleted. A careful read of the above discussion, much like a careful listen to a new work of music avoids cursory judgements, would avoid such strawman arguments.
I decided to delete the review in case people were dissuaded from buying Moses and judging it for themselves. I agreed that a one-star review might have put them off. It's also possible that I was entirely wrong about the piece: I await contrary opinions with interest.
I suppose I might also change my mind. Maybe to 2 stars. Maybe. Maybe not. Frankly, I'm glad no longer to be listening to this worthy monster.
I put Raff 2 on yesterday. What a relief to be hearing music that knows where it is going, is attractively written for the orchestra and is thoroughly memorable. Raff is often compared to Rubinstein. No contest as far as I'm concerned.
Raff's attitude towards Rubinstein was ambivalent; he wrote: "his music reminds one of his Russian homeland: the palaces stand unordered next to miserable huts". I'm looking forward with ambivalence too to hearing the remaining two CDs of Moses, I didn't dislike the piece anything like as much as Alan obviously did, but do I really want to hear two more hours in the same vein?
Rubinstein himself appeared to give credence to Raff's criticism when he told the musicologist Frederick Niecks that "he wrote on the spur of the moment, driven by an inner force; he could not... criticise, file and brood over his compositions. They were indeed improvisations and had the virtues and vices of improvisations."
http://www.raff.org/life/peers/rubinstn.htm (http://www.raff.org/life/peers/rubinstn.htm)
Here is the libretto of "Moses":
http://moses.warnermusicpoland.com.pl/libretto.pdf?
There was discreet, but genuine enthusiasm on the part of the reviewers on this morning's Record Review (BBC Radio 3). Frankly, though, I was bored after a couple of minutes of listening to what were obviously supposed to be excerpts from the best music in the work. Sorry: this for me is still an almighty failure. Give me The Demon any day.
I am with you, Alan ;)
Still unable to decide listening to CD 3...
It appears critical opinion will always be divided as to the merits of Rubinstein's music....so be it; but this recording is worth hearing, if only for the Moses of Stanislav Kuflyuk. The music itself achieves a declamatory eloquence to match the finer pages of Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" (Weinstock & Brockway's "World of Opera" makes a similar claim for Rubinstein's "Kaloshnikov"), and Kuflyuk is electrifying in the title role. I encourage you to stick with it; by the time Moses/Kuflyuk hurls his final thunderbolt ("Jehovah ist dein Gott") you may be ready to join the faithful.
I notice that Gramophone magazine gave the work short shrift this month, saying that 'this rediscovered opera isn't manna from heaven; it's very thin gruel.' Having spent the past month disovering Rimsky-Korsakov in all his operatic glory, I'm afraid Moses has caused me to revise my already low opinion of Rubinstein further downwards. 'Gruel' is right; and listening to it is a gruelling experience indeed, however good the performance might be.
;D
Right, Alan. In my opinion it never matches the finer pages of "Boris Godunov". It's just nice and too frequently boring and conventional music.
"Demon" is much better and a bit more orignal too.
Yes, 'Demon' is so much better - agreed. And R-K is on a completely different level altogether.
Quoteand as such I found it no more dull than St. Paul or Gerontius.
Well, we might agree that the Mendelssohn is dull (I wouldn't), but the Elgar? I've heard it called many things (sentimental, cloying), but never dull. To compare Rubinstein's utterly dull
Moses with the utterly memorable
Gerontius seems inconceivable to me.
Ah well. But then, I'd take the dynamic Raff over the lumbering Brahms most days and Draeseke over both of them, so who am I to talk?
But, Alan, John is not saying St Paul or Gerontius are dull. He finds Moses far from dull and in that context writes that it is "no more dull than..." etc. So he is suggesting that Moses is equally as engaging as St Paul or Gerontius. One might disagree but that is what John's post states.
Well, what he says is: "I found it no more dull than St. Paul or Gerontius" - in other words, in his view it is no duller than those two works. I profoundly disagree. It is far duller - nay, infinitely duller. It's 'drop off to sleep well before the end of the first CD' duller.
IMHO, of course.
Otherwise, point taken.
Isn't it interesting what a divisive composer Rubinstein is? I must confess that I'm very much on the fence. To my ear he had a fine grasp of melody, and I enjoy that in most of his works, but many of them are shoddily put together (most of the symphonies for instance) and so, although I enjoy the material, I find what he does with it disappointing. There are some pieces though, most commonly amongst his chamber and piano music, which are full of arresting ideas used sparingly and with intelligence. Rather to my surprise, I found Moses an engaging and powerful listen, although no masterwork.
But where's the melody that raises Rubinstein's best work above the routine? Can't find it in Moses...
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Thursday 07 February 2019, 12:57
Isn't it interesting what a divisive composer Rubinstein is?
He DEFINITELY gets Alan going, that's beyond doubt. In every thread about Rubinstein, the Howe keyboard must get worn down! What is it about him Alan, compared with other composers that you don't particularly like? With this composers you simply can't resist having the last word, to re-emphasise that you just don't like him!
It's just my opinion. But to fill in the picture: I greatly value his Violin Concerto, Piano Concertos, Cello Concertos, The Demon, Symphony Nos. 2 & 6, Cello Sonatas, Piano Sonatas, Piano Quartets - and probably many more. But I find various of his works (e.g. Symphonies 3,4,5 and Moses) exceptionally trying. To mis-quote Longfellow: 'When he was good, he was very, very, good, but when he was bad, he was horrid.'
Love this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5_5n5jTqW0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5_5n5jTqW0)
...I mean, it's inspired.
I don't think the Lord will have anything to say about musical opinions honestly expressed - even wrong-headed ones. I'm content that my sins will have been entirely adequately covered by the blood of the Lamb when that day comes, whether accompanied by Verdi or Berlioz - or not, as I suspect. The misapplication of Scripture, though, is another matter...
Oh, and by the way, the 'lumbering Brahms' was how Draeseke scholar Dr Alan Krueck described the first movement of that composer's First Symphony.
And with that, back to Rubinstein...
Quotedon't think for a minute that I was seriously invoking scriptural authority to condemn you
Oh, good. It was hard to tell.
QuoteAs for our late friend's opinion...well, that Alan had his faults, too
I think we should avoid
ad hominem arguments. Alan K. was simply asserting that the first subject (after the slow introduction) of the opening movement of Brahms 1 rather lumbers into life. I happen to agree with him. As with many of his views, he was content to go against the critical tide. I personally learned more from him over several years of correspondence than from anyone else I have known. Of course he had faults - we all have. And I have many too. So it doesn't get us anywhere to label someone as having faults when arguing against their point of view.
Anyway, let's move on. I think I've made my view of
Moses clear enough, so I shall leave it to others to debate the pros and cons of the music.
I had high hopes for this, considering the quality of the Demon. I got through half of it and decided to stop because it became too much for me. He just tends to ramble on and on and on, which would be okay if the melodic inspiration was strong but in this case it's not. The performances are committed but that wasn't enough for me, its the music itself I have a problem with. Bruch's Moses was also a complete bore, I'm left with the impression that the subject isn't strong enough to inspire composers.
Yes, Kevin: the same goes for Max Bruch's "Moses" oratorium, running for almost 2 hours and with only 3 soloists...
This with all the respect for Bruch's music I have!
Apologies for continuing the tangent, but the only artistically (and commercially) successful effort I've heard doesn't fit this forum's rules. (Haven't heard Rossini or Goehr, referring to a well-known unfinished mid-20th c opera.)
QuoteI got through half of it and decided to stop
Well done. A remarkable feat of endurance. ;)
Well, as far as operas on Moses are concerned, I almost forgot Rossini's, which I actually find a wonderful piece. Those who do not agree must however, agree upon its third act's, wonderful "Preghiera". The opera has great choral numbers and the arias and scenes are all quite emotionally tense. In the second act there is a gorgeous nocturnal love duet
Yes, quite right.