On April 27th, the Finnish Radio Symphony orchestra and Sakari Oramo performed Erkki Melartin's Symphony No. 3. What makes the event of interest is the fact that the performance was made from a recently completed copy-edited score. Melartin's six symphonies were recorded for Ondine in the 1990s by Leonid Grin and Tampere Philharmonic Orchestra, but at least in the present case there are considerable differences between the edited score and what we hear on the disc; in the liner notes for the recording there is no indication of any of this, for example, that most of the development section of the first movement of the 3rd symphony was simply left out in the recorded process. If I've understood correctly, the aim of the copy-editing project is to prepare "performance-editions" of all of Melartin's six symphonies, including the last one which was actually published, apparently with quite a few inaccuracies, in the 1930.
6th sym - 1935, I think- one can find it here (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.6,_Op.100_(Melartin,_Erkki)) (by Hansen, though it's hard to tell from the crossed-out/covered-over cover). Ordinarily since 1935>1922 this would be non-PD-US but apparently not in this case. All 6 symphonies were republished already in the 1990s but if they're doing so again in better editions still, have at it - more exposure for this very fine composer is ok in my book. I very much enjoy the 3rd symphony but am sad to hear that it was cut!
Thanks for information. I didn't know about this concert used new edition.
In any case, I recorded this concert, and will upload it soon.
Melartin's 6th Symphony dates from 1925.
It was, however, published in 1935- which was what I meant. I was trying to make "sometime in the 1930s" less ambiguous. It becomes clear if you follow the link I provided. Thanks.
Quote from: eschiss1 on Sunday 13 May 2012, 22:59
It was, however, published in 1935- which was what I meant. I was trying to make "sometime in the 1930s" less ambiguous. It becomes clear if you follow the link I provided. Thanks.
Yes. It was published in 1935, on the occasion of Melartin's sixtieth birthday, as a present by his Danish friends. First sketches date back to 1918; the work was completed in 1924 and premiered on February 7th, 1925 to celebrate Melartin's 50th birthday.
Regarding the new clean-copy version of Symphony No.3 performed in April 2012, having now heard the excellent recording in the downloads section, I find it so different from the Grin CD I'm wondering if one is based on the 1906 original version, and the other on the 1907-8 revision?
Wait a minute. Which recorded version had most of the first movement development section cut? The Grin or the new one?
The total timing for the Grin version is 34:54. The timing for the new version, i.e. the version in the Downloads is 45:56. Having read this thread only this evening, I downloaded the new version (can be found in the Archives folder)but have not yet listened to it. I am looking forward to hearing it. As some members of this forum know, I am an keen admirer of Melartin's music.
There appear to be substantial torsos of symphonies 7 and 8, too, to judge from catalog descriptions in the Sibelius library. Far more than exists, say, for Stenhammar's Symphony 3 (at least as it's been recorded). Let's hope that these, too, become part of the project. That said, the music may well be outside the purview of this forum, like Sibelius's astonishing Surusoitto, Op. 111b.
New score of 3rd symphony and also 4th and 5th symphonies are available at Melartin society's website http://www2.siba.fi/Melartinseura/?page=dokumentit (http://www2.siba.fi/Melartinseura/?page=dokumentit)
The Grin's recording has also cuts in 4th and 5th symphonies. In 4th symphony the rondo-finale has cuts that destroy the rondo form so that it does not really sound as a rondo anymore. In the 5th symphony there are only small cuts, maybe a minute or two in total.
The story goes, that when the Grin recording was made in 1990s, it was at first offered for Finnish Radio Symphony and Helsinki Philharmonic but they declined because they thought that Melartin's symphonies are not worth recording. Then Tampere did the recording, but they weren't too happy to do it either. It was anyway good that they did it, but it is really amazing that there is no mention about cuts or editing in the sleeve notes. So there really is a need for recording these symphonies in their complete form as Melartin composed them.
That is a fascinating message, Jani. Many thanks (at least from me!) for supplying this information.
I collected the individual Ondine discs of the symphonies when they were first issued (around 2001 I think). I've developed a considerable admiration and liking for Melartin, and within the last year have got to know the piano music as well.
However I've always sensed there was something rather 'odd' about either some of the symphonies themselves or Grin's performances of them. I'm now thinking that cuts in the performances might well explain some of the sudden and unexpected discontinuites or jumps in the 5th symphony in particular.
Do you happen to know whether all six symphonies were recorded in these cut versions? If so, what a great tragedy given that the Grin recordings on Ondine were the first (and remain, as far as I know, the only) recordings. And it seems to me a case of 'Shame' on the Finnish Radio SO and Helsinki PO for declining to be involved in first recordings! All this means is that there is surely an urgent case for someone to offer new and uncut recordings of these important works.
I venture that the John Storgards / Tampere / Segerstam Violin Concerto, again on Ondine, is uncut. True or false anyone?
Peter, yes you can hear abrupt changes in tonal sense and motivical development and these really are because of the cuts in the Grin recording. In originals, Melartin doesn't do such abrupt changes of keys. More he likes to develop material in very logical way. You are right that the cuts in the 5th symphony are not particularly smooth.
There are couple new recordings of his piano works, one disc by Maria Lettberg and other by Jean Dubé. I recommend to get both recordings if you don't have them already.
I think the violin concerto is recorded in complete form. And if I remember correctly, I think there are cuts in all symphonies.
Many thanks, Jani. You spread enlightenment!
some of the Dubé recordings, btw, the pianist has, I think, made available free on IMSLP (as with other recordings of his. He goes by "Janno" there.)
Very sad to hear about the cuts.
We had alternative versions of other Melartin symphonies in our archive but I cannot find them any longer. (No. 5 and 6?)
I was wondering if those were uncut performances. Has anyone downloaded those versions and compared them to the Ondine-Grin-Tampere recordings?
the Jalas recording of no.6 is broadcast over BBC occasionally, I know (along with his violin concerto and suite, I think...)
Ah, that's why I didn't dowload No. 6! I used to have it myself but gave it up when I bought the Ondine set. I couldn't tell a difference when first listening to the Grin version. Were there definitely cuts in Grin's No. 6?
QuoteMany thanks, Jani. You spread enlightenment!
Seconded! The Melartin symphony that first won me over was the fourth, which sounded shapely as well as melodically and harmonically attractive. When I first heard the third, however, I couldn't help but notice Melartin's less than masterly control of structure. I fell back on the old canard: namely, that he was another "miniaturist" whose instincts favored local effect over long line.
It's so pleasant to find out that I haven't really heard the way he handles long line in his third symphony. What a thrill it would be to see Chandos release it with Martyn Brabbins conducting a well-rehearsed orchestra -- perhaps his Nagoya PO (which performed, for instance, the Lemminkäinen Suite last April). Just a daydream...
Is there something wrong with the Ondine set (which by coincidence I'm listening to the first disc of right this moment)?
See especially replys 8 and 10 in this thread, TerraEpon.
Oh huh. Yeah, a new recording would be nice then. I bought it simply based on a random Amazon recommendation and never regretted it.
I just listened symphonies 1, 2 and 6 with scores. It's been a really long time I have heard these symphonies. 6th is the only one in the Grin's set that doesn't have any cuts. 1st and 2nd are pretty heavily cut. 1st has 8 cuts in total, that would be about 5-6 minutes music missing. In 2nd I lost a track of the cuts, because there are so many of them, always couple pages here, and couple pages there. So there must be at least 7-8 minutes of music missing.
Also I noticed that finale of the 1st uses material from Melartin's incidental music to the Sleeping Beauty.
Thank you again, Jani, for this information. But it is all deeply depressing. What on earth was Ondine (in my view a highly reputable company who have provided a wealth of recorded material) playing at in issuing such truncated recordings of the symphonies - and not, as far as I remember, saying a word about these savage cuts in the notes accompanying the releases? It reminds me of the Metronome set of the Rubinstein piano trios - performed by the Edlian Piano Trio - issued a couple of years ago. I had looked forward to that immensely: all five trios made available together. But then was hugely disappointed to discover that much cutting and hacking had been done, and again, not a word about it in the accompanying notes.
A wicked practice indeed. And also remarkably deceitful. I'm also puzzled by the issue of who carries responsibility. Was it Grin's decision to perform cut versions? Or did Ondine insist on it, which would be odd since there is sufficient time on each of the three discs for more music? And what I don't quite understand is whether Grin and Ondine were acting in good faith since the recordings were based on scores available in the early 1990s (and supposed to be authoritative, but now discovered to be incomplete), or whether they were deliberately offering incomplete performances. If the latter, then why?
And again, I'm puzzled why all this issue has come to light now? From what I remember of reviews of the original releases (and then later the boxed set) there was no mention of cuts to performances. Why hasn't this been picked up? I'm disadvantaged by not being able to read Finnish and hence can't access relevant literature. But I've always had the belief that the Finnish Music Information Centre (or whatever their title) is a pretty astute body with plenty of scholars contributing to it. So why no word from them? Again, I have a hazy memory that one of the original individual releases of the symphonies was given a 'recording of the year' award by Finnish Radio. So were the latter likewise not aware of cuts? Is Melartin regarded as such an obscure and unknown composer in Finland that no-one is aware of the issue - that would seem most unlikely for the Finns are generally rightly proud of the riches in Finnish music and culture.
A whole bundle of puzzles here. But to end on a much more pleasant note: how enjoyable are the recordings of Melartin's piano music by Maria Lettberg (a 2 CD set released by Crystal a few months ago)! Some real gems here.....and hopefully none of them cut!
Yes this situation with Grin's recording is really depressing. I don't know how much the cuts were decision by conductor (Grin) and producer (Siirala), but in the earlier recordings for Finnish Radio in 50s, 60s and 80s (by Hannikainen, Cronvall, and Jalas) there are pretty similar cuts in 4th and 5th symphonies, so I think some of the cuts may originate there. I'm pretty sure that Grin and Siirala had heard these versions, since they were only ones available at the time. Also, Melartin's autograph scores of these symphonies are marked with cuts, some pretty extensive, but not always. Melartin himself conducted these symphonies, as well as other conductors.
Reason why these cuts are just now coming to light is, the scores of Melartin's symphonies have been available only as a photocopies from Finnish Music Information Centre. Autographs are in the Sibelius Academy library, and not easily accessible until recently. Exeption is 5th, and its autograph is in Helsinki Philharmonic's library. Performance materials also have been in really bad shape. The same materials were used in the premieres of the symphonies. Now there is new engraved parts that match the edited scores, so performing these symphonies is much more easier.
I think because there haven't been much research on Melartin's music, no one has raised the issue until now. No one has taken a good look at the scores and I could say that Ondine people probably thought that since no-one is going to look at the scores, no-one would notice anything! If this would have done in one of the Sibelius' symphonies it would have been noticed and this would be regarded as a sacrilege, but since Melartin is not held at high regard in Finland, they must have been thinking that making cuts would not be a big issue.
It is indeed strange that none of the records is over 70 minutes, so extra music would have fitted there. Fortunately last spring Finnish Radio Symphony under Sakari Oramo did wonderful performance of 3rd symphony without any cuts, the first movement there makes sense.
Here in Finland only Sibelius is held at high regard. There is much Sibelius research going on, and there is also saying that composers are "in the shadow of Sibelius". But now there is also little interest in other composers like Järnefelt, Madetoja, Klami, Melartin, Pacius, Pingoud but still if orchestras want to perform Finnish music that is not modern, they rather play Sibelius than take symphony by Melartin or Madetoja.
It's great to have your expert perspective on things, jani. Thank you!
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Sunday 21 October 2012, 10:32
A wicked practice indeed. And also remarkably deceitful.
What's annoying is that they do it with even more popular stuff. I cringe every time Bernstein's recordings (either of them) of Rhapsody in Blue get recommended. Or figuring out if a recording of Rachmaninoff's 3rd PC has cuts (and which cadenza for that matter) is maddening. And the second symphony, as well.
So, I gather from a review, with Mussorgsky's Pictures (piano version). I noticed an "opened cut" that shouldn't have been (the whole 2nd subject group, which the composer removed from the recapitulation - followed by a cut by Fellegi of the cadenza) in a Medtner work in Fellegi's recording of it (sonata op.39/5, for Marco Polo) but am aware that I'm now careening into what might be a different topic...
Having just listened to Oramo's Melartin 3 for the first time, I have to say I'm greatly impressed. Of course, it's a lot longer (around 10 minutes) than the Grin recording which immediately leads one to question the version that was used for the CD (I don't - yet - know the CD version well enough to come to my own opinion about the relative merits of the two versions). But, secondly, there does seem to me to be a greater sense of expansive logic to the revised version. I do hope that Oramo will go on to record it.
Actually in Oramo recording the 1st movement is how Melartin wrote it. Both recordings use revision of the second movement Melartin made in September 1907 after the premiere. The symphony was finished in 28.1.1907 and the premiere was in 5.4.1907 The Grin just cuts most of the development section. When Grin made the recording there was only revised score available in manuscript, and also engraved score that Oramo uses follows the same revised autograph.
Oramo to the recording studios forthwith!!! Please.
It is very sad that perhaps Melartin has been denied his place amongst major symphonists of early last century on account of defective recordings. A decent representation of his orchestral works might serve to establish him where he rightly belongs. (And my thanks again to Jani for providing an informed impetus to this particular thread).
Jani also saddened me by his characterisation of contemporary Finnish musical culture as more or less wall to wall Sibelius with only a grudging acceptance that there may be other composers with not quite his stature but certainly deserving of wider recognition and celebration. If true, that's very sad. And I thought that Finland was a hive of musical activity with a good number of orchestras and ensembles, and a population reasonably aware of, and appreciative of, its musical heritage. Is that not so? What, for example, is the state of music in Finnish schools? But I'm going way off thread!
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Monday 22 October 2012, 10:31Jani also saddened me by his characterisation of contemporary Finnish musical culture as more or less wall to wall Sibelius with only a grudging acceptance that there may be other composers with not quite his stature but certainly deserving of wider recognition and celebration. If true, that's very sad. And I thought that Finland was a hive of musical activity with a good number of orchestras and ensembles, and a population reasonably aware of, and appreciative of, its musical heritage. Is that not so? What, for example, is the state of music in Finnish schools? But I'm going way off thread!
Why, that would be just like major music conservatories and academies only teaching Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Bach, Brahms...hey, wait a minute... ;) >:(
I should expect a new cycle of Melartin's symphonies by Ondine is not particularly likely, as they've already done it once, albeit in a defective form, as it has turned out. Perhaps Alba could come to rescue; they are now releasing Aarre Merikanto's three symphonies, and there's rather more substance to Melartin's symphonies than Merikanto's (who was an extremely fine composer). Or perhaps BIS and Lahti Symphony could do it; Robert von Bahr has always shown a wealth of interest in Finnish music. Let's hope at the very least that some Finnish Orchestra will pick up the scores and give live performances of Melartin's symphonies. Jani is certainly right in that the 'canon' of past Finnish composers whose works receive live performances is really quite narrow; thanks to the excellent editorial work, there's now no longer an excuse for ignoring Melartin's work, and the question regarding musical substance can only be judged by the ear.
This question has been asked before, but I haven't been able to find a clear-cut reply (which could quite reasonably mean, I suppose, that nobody really knows), but are the performances of Melartin's 5th and 6th symphonies that are, or at least were, available here as downloads, of the newer critical editions, or are they alternative performances of the older cut editions used by Ondine/Grim in their recorded cycle?
TIA!
Brian
Brian,
5th and 6th symphonies were recorded by Jussi Jalas (1908-1985) in 1974 (5th) and 1982 (6th) for broadcasts. 5th is cut, 6th is following the edition published in 1935. New edition of 5th got its first performance (uncut) in Turku in 2008. New edition of 4th has not yet been performed. 6th is probably next symphony to be edited.
By the way, I also recommend you to listen recording of Melartin's opera Aino (1912). It is much more oratorium than opera.
Melartin also wrote two interesting symphonic poems, Traumgesicht (op. 70, 1910), and Siikajoki (op. 28, 1903). Traumgesicht has not been performed since 1932, Siikajoki is broadcasted now and then. Also very good work is Marjatta (op.79, 1914), it is impressionistic 10 minute work for soprano and orchestra, much like Luonnotar by Sibelius.
Thanks, Jani! Jussi Jalas was a conductor I held in some esteem back in my LP days, so even in the older cut performances I would probably find it worth while to hear what he does with Melartin.
Thanks again!
Brian
My problem with "Aino" is no text. I cannot understand BIS doing this. Does anyone have access to the text?
I think one could request that the Aarhus library that has a copy of the Lilius & Hertzberg, 1909 separate printing of the libretto , to scan it in- Danish libraries do, I think, consider scanning requests if you create an account on their system to put the requests in with - and then download the scan from their site. See OCLC (http://www.worldcat.org/title/aino-musiikkidraama-savelsi-erkki-melartin/oclc/487376337) and follow the relevant links...
Allow me to briefly resuscitate this thread and refer interested parties to Oramo's recording, which is now available on Youtube, along with an elaborate explanation by the poster (is that you, Jani?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgLRS_sw5oA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgLRS_sw5oA)
Suffice it to say that this is a great advertisement for the symphony and for Melartin's other works to be performed in their intended form. Last spring, I was lucky enough to attend a performance of the Violin Concerto by a really good amateur orchestra, the Leiderdorps Orkest (from very near my hometown of Leiden). Having proper editions on hand greatly helps to stimulate concert performances. I hope the same can be achieved with the Dopper editions.