Unsung Composers

Even as it is releasing its latest recording of choral music by Raff, Sterling is putting the finishing touches to another major release, once again employing Henrik Schaefer and the Gothenburg Opera Orchestra:


This will be a double CD with 95 minutes of music, spanning Raff's career. The nine orchestral intermezzi from his Oratorio Welt-Ende (on the subject of the biblical apocalypse) form an extended sequence lasting 40 minutes. There are surprises in store for anyone who still thinks Raff no more than a Mendelssohn epigone: the writing here is really advanced for 1881 with some very lean textures in intermezzi like "Famine" and "The Last Signs", contrasting wonderfully with more typical Raff creations like the bombast-puncturing "War", the exciting "Death and Hell" and the noble and peaceful "Judgement" and "New World" intermezzi. It would be wonderful to have a modern recording of the whole work, but these purely orchestral pieces still represent a third of it. The Welt-Ende intermezzi, together with the Four Shakespeare Preludes just issued by Chandos, give tantalising glimpses of how Raff's orchestral music might have developed had he lived longer.

The other CD in the album has two very early works. It's fascinating to hear what Raff made in 1850 of Liszt's fragmentary and disjointed outline sketches for his Prometheus Unbound Overture, and to compare the result with Liszt's reworking of the material a few years later into his familiar symphonic poem. This was no mere orchestration job; Raff's is essentially his imagining of Liszt's intentions, much as Anthony Payne did with Elgar's Third Symphony, and it's at once familiar and disconcertingly different. There's as much Raff in its 18 minutes as there is Liszt.

The final work is billed as the Incidental Music to Bernhard von Weimar and dates from 1854. I write "is billed as" because this is as close a reconstruction as can now be made of the music. The major piece is the Overture, but that no longer exists in its original form and so what has been recorded is the work in its more familiar guise: the Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott Overture, published over a decade later. This powerfully effective piece is no longer available on CD (although the Marco Polo recording can still be downloaded) and it's good to have it back. The only differences from the original overture are that Raff transposed it from C major to D major and revised the piece's ending. The other two works are what promise to be a pair of fine and (at over 8 minutes apiece) quite substantial marches, one upbeat and the other more sombre, material from one of which will be already familiar to anyone who knows their Raff! Unfortunately, missing from the Incidental Music are a pair of short fanfares which were never published and could not be tracked down.

Admittedly I have yet to hear it, but in prospect this is a really exciting release. Judging by their performances on the new choral CD, the Gothenburg orchestra is a fine, full-size ensemble and I know that Henrik Schaefer is completely in sympathy with Raff's idiom. Not only is the recent De Profundis evidence of that, but I saw him conduct a blazing Im Walde a few years ago in Sweden. Avrohom Leichtling's exhaustive and fascinating 22 page essay for the booklet is, once again, an absolute tour de force.

I'm not sure how long we will have to wait, but I suspect it'll be weeks rather than months.

Oooh, more Raff goodies. Lovely jubbly! Thanks for the advance notice, Mark! And hats off to Bo Hyttner for getting this music recorded. I suspect that the much fuller picture we are going to have of Raff will finally demonstrate the range and depth of his abilities as a composer.

Crikey - "lovely jubbly" is a most serious understatement! And isn't it just astonishing how very quickly, on the basis of new recordings, Raff has been catapulted from neglected and unsung to widely recorded in just a few years? Yes, astonishing, for I can't think of another composer who has been fortunate to experience anything like the same reversal of fortune. Tremendous!

But a long way to go for Raff isn't yet a household name or frequently performed in concert (at least in the UK). A few days ago I chuckled over Semloh's observation that perhaps the time has come when Raff can no longer be regarded as an unsung. Utter tosh, Semloh, for (gawd forbid!) we don't yet hear snippets of Raff on FM4, TV advertisements, or as background mush in airplanes or rail stations. If Raff takes his rightful place as a major composer then, poor fellow, he deserves the same treatment as other major figures.

This recording of the orchestral intermezzi from Welt-Ende is surely going to be a pretty major Raff event? But one initial reaction is excitement tinged with some disappointment. If we've got the treat of a double CD, and 95 minutes of music, then.....yes, you've got it, why not the whole work? Do these nine orchestral intermezzi stand on their own feet so to speak, or are they chunks of the oratorio rather cruelly torn out of the whole work? Are there good reasons why the whole work isn't given? Please Mark, don't think I'm ungrateful (quite the contrary). But I'm wondering whether this hugely valuable and welcome release might give us a tantalising glimpse of what might have been?

But what a tremendous CD cover!

Quotewhy not the whole work?

It would be a costly enterprise, Peter. Welt-Ende would fill two CDs and needs not only a choir and a mezzo-soprano soloist, but also a top notch baritone principal.

The recording was always conceived as a purely orchestral one and, yes, the intermezzi are genuinely free standing, purely orchestral episodes, conceived as such by Raff as part of his scheme for the Oratorio. Why only 95 minutes on two CDs? In truth, the recording was conceived as filling one CD, but there was time in the studio sessions to record all nine intermezzi, not just the selection which Sterling had planned. Secondly, the two Bernhard von Weimar marches proved to be rather bigger compositions than had been assumed when the recording was planned. Rather than withhold something, Sterling has generously decided to spread all the music over two CDs. I don't know how the double album will be priced, but I don't think that it'll be twice the price of a single Sterling album.

Thanks Mark for a very full reply. Yes, I'm reassured - and actually you've given reasons why, rather than gently chide Sterling for failing to record the whole work, we should in fact be especially grateful to them - all nine Intermezzi rather than the ones previously planned and then some additional works on top of them. No grumbles whatsoever from me!

But I am of course left with heart-fluttering fantasies! A clearly major full length late Raff work requiring a mezzo-soprano, a top-notch baritone, chorus and orchestra.....ooooooh! I would vow to give up all my wicked ways if, after a decent time in which Sterling had unlimited opportunity to sell this set in plenty, someone like Chandos would come along and offer the full Chandos works to the whole Oratorio. Wouldn't that be something! Golly, the thought of it!

Welt-Ende is an odd work. It's hardly a typical 19th century Oratorio, even for the final quarter of the century. For a start there are those orchestral intermezzi, which account for a third of its length. They and the choruses, roughly another third, illustrate the recitative narrative of the baritone, Johannes (St John), who delivers extracts from the biblical Book of Revelation. There is a small part (A Voice) for a mezzo-soprano, but the baritone dominates the work. Those lengthy stretches of recitative are an old-fashioned device for the 1880s. The choruses are more contemporary in feel but, this being Raff, are liberally laced with counterpoint and fugue, which can make them sound somewhat archaic in the wrong hands. On the other hand the intermezzi are strikingly forward-looking and I suspect that their use on such a large scale as a structural device was unique at the time. Raff uses three or four readily identifiable leitmotivs throughout the work, which marries nobility in the vocal numbers with theatricality in some of the orchestral ones. In short, like so many of Raff's compositions, it is looking back and forward at the same time. At its English premiere in Leeds in 1883, Arthur Sullivan apparently couldn't understand the piece at all.

Mark hits the nail on the head: Raff is a composer who embodies both the classical and progressive impulses in music in a fascinating and wholly unique manner. I'm convinced that at least part of the reason for the demise of his reputation following his death was that he simply didn't fit into the neat categories of classicist or progressive - something of which he himself was all-too aware. It was the generation that came after him that was able to carry off this balancing act far better - possibly because by then the battles of the past seemed passé and irrelevant.

I don't know any of these works but I shall certainly purchase this.  Thanks to Sterling I have made some very pleasurable discoveries and incidently I like their cover pictures.

Anyone happen to know when this new Raff disc will be released? I've been eagerly scanning 'new releases' ever since Mark told us of this (very exciting) disc at the end of January...but so far no actual release. I guess it is early days yet and I'm just impatient - but that is what Raff does for you!

 :o  Ooo, that's very spooky, Peter! I had just begun this reply, notifying of a projected April release date, when up popped your post!

I have now heard an early mix of this double CD set and I am hugely impressed with the performances by the Gothenburg Opera Orchestra and by Henrik Schaefer's interpretations. No Raff enthusiast will be disappointed, I can guarantee.

Many thanks Mark. The release might, hopefully, coincide exactly with my birthday...so I'm going to be extraordinarily busy in the next few weeks reminding my wife that more Raff is on the way!

And I'm inclined to think, Mark, that from what I know of the works on the forthcoming disc, and performances given by Gothenburg Orchestra and Henrik Schaefer, your guarantee (now in writing) of a Raff enthusiast's absence of disappointment is rather superfluous!

Thanks Mark for your interesting information. A mouthwatering release I suppose, which could very well be in time available for me as a birthday present too, Peter.  And I like the somewhat spooky, mysterious sleeve design. Very eye-catching.

Allow me to pose an easy, and possibly dumb, question whilst all these Raff posts are flying through the ether. The recent Sterling release of the Te Deum, De Profundis, and some short unaccompanied choral works comes along with an utterly marvellous booklet - 31 pages (in crystal clear font) containing a thoroughly detailed account by Avrohom Leichtling of each work. Actually I can't praise this enough: we don't get any of the frequently bland (or plain bonkers) stuff that is to be found in many CD booklets. It is wonderfully informative, thoroughly intelligent, and perfectly accessible to those who (like me) lack any training in musical discourse. An absolute model of its kind. (There are the few 'typos' - Raff apparently was a Catolic - but no matter!)

Now for the question, and a very obvious one. All these 31 pages are in English. That is fine for lazy, parochial fellows such as myself whose language skills are pretty limited. But does it mean Sterling also produce the same booklets in, say, French and German? And if so. does that not add considerably to the cost of manufacture, and does it not create difficulties in sales over an international market? And if it is indeed the case that all booklets are in English then is that not rather prejudicial to readers whose language is not English?

Apologies - an obvious and maybe a somewhat silly question that has nothing to do with Raff, music, let alone unsung composers. Perhaps it should be struck off!

Incidentally the playing time of this wonderful disc is 79'59. Isn't that something of a record (sic)? If so think of how immensely chuffed Raff would be in thinking of his music breaking records 131 years after his departure from us.

What an interesting coincidence this thread is bumped and I read it just as I'm listening to the wonderful Violin Concerto/Suite disc...

Can't wait for more Raff from them.

Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Saturday 23 March 2013, 17:53
Incidentally the playing time of this wonderful disc is 79'59. Isn't that something of a record (sic)? If so think of how immensely chuffed Raff would be in thinking of his music breaking records 131 years after his departure from us.

Hardly. I have a number of CDs over 80 minutes. It's true it used to be the limit, but about 2000 or so they started pushing it. The longest disc I have is 82:27, which is on the Sibelius Edition Vol. 1 from BIS (who contributes probably half or more of my 80+ minute discs). I believe I once read from Robert van Buhr (who is BIS's founder and runs the company) that the maximum is 82:30 (and indeed said disc doesn't have silence at the end like other BIS discs do).

I'm loath to reply on Bo Hyttner's behalf but, as he isn't a  member here, I'll do so. I understand that Sterling's main markets are Scandinavia (understandably), Germany and the English speaking countries. Bo canvassed opinion on the idea that booklet notes could be more extensive if they were only in English and his distributors confirmed that it really wasn't an issue as in all Sterling's markets English is at least the second language. Not only does it mean that we can be treated to extensive notes such as Avrohom's but it also means that Sterling saves on the sometimes considerable cost of translation. There have been no complaints and sales don't appear to have been affected. I can't deny that it is prejudicial to customers whose first language isn't English, but it is a practical trade off which does bring some benefits to most customers and doesn't appear to have caused a problem. The booklet for this new release, by the way, is also by Avrohom and is similarly extensive at 30 pages. I'll pass on to him your very kind comments, Peter, about his notes.

The projected April release date of this double album has obviously slipped. I understand that it could well be several months away now.

Disappointing - but not the end of the world since the disc is at least on the way. And I cheer myself up by remembering that only a few years ago you could never expect that a good Raff recording might be on the way!

Not the end of the world since it doesn't have to do with very late unfinished Scriabin... never mind, wires crossed there.

Actually it is about the end of the world, but we won't get into eschatology here...

 ;D Very good!

I'll post an ETA as soon as I know it myself.

Ah, but it could have made for such a fun group clamavi-bake.

I just got an email from Bo at Sterling Records.  Unfortunately, he still does not have a release date for this Raff 2 CD set.

Yes, the delay is stretching out for this one, I'm afraid.

Forgot about this one, nice to be reminded it's in the pipeline.

A very long pipeline.

Dear friends, the await is ending, this cd double will be release in november!!

Thanks, I'd like to think that'll be so.

 ;D

The Raff is ready. Available in Sweden in january-february, after other parts of the world

I'm sure!!! The Raff comes!!

Always good when the Raff is (almost) Ready!
(yes, I'm quite sure his brother Kaspar, especially, heard many too many of those and rather more imaginative during his time in the USA. :) )

Dear Erick, I understand you, that you don't believe me!! :'(  :'(, but in this time is true!!!!

I was just making a bad pun. I do believe you. The pun was inappropriate and incomprehensible, and on those and other counts I apologize.

Dear Erick, no problem my friend!
   I'm very grateful You, for your support, comments, researchings, etc!
Raff will be available first in Sweden, Toccata.nu

;D

The Toccata shop in Sweden...
http://www.toccata.nu/main.html  (http://www.toccata.nu/main.html)
...is where I get my copies of new Sterling releases from. Mr Hoff there is very helpful!

At last! Exactly a month short of two years since I originally announced its imminent release, I can say with confidence that this double album will be available very early in 2015. The technical issues which have plagued the recording have been resolved, apparently, and Sterling's own distribution problems are now well behind it, as evinced by the spate of new releases which we've seen from the label in recent months.

It's ironic that the delay in issuing this two-fer has resulted in one of the works on this release has been overtaken by events. When the the pieces were recorded, the best reconstruction which could be made of the Music to the Historical Tragedy Bernhard von Weimar WoO.17 was to record the two marches from the piece which had survived and were published, and precede them with the Ein feste Bürg Overture Op.127, which was a re-writing and expansion of the original, lost Bernhard von Weimar Overture. The full, original score for the incidental music was thought to be lost, but earlier this year I tracked down two autograph copies of the full score, in Berlin and in Weimar, which include not only the original Overture, but also a plethora of much shorter orchestral numbers, including the several fanfares about which we already knew. To be fair, the pieces on the recording contain the bulk of the music - 35 minutes, compared with the estimated 43-45 minutes of the original. Raff's Op.127 is pretty much the same as the original Overture, except that he transposed it from C major to D major, tweaked the orchestration and replaced the final sombre two minutes with a triumphant peroration lasting more than twice as long. The other 12 newly rediscovered pieces consist of some brief fanfares and drum rolls, some repeated sections of the Overture and the first march, and a couple of short alternative pieces. In total they amount to 14 minutes of music if the alternatives are included, and so none of them have much substance, but its a minor disappointment that we probably won't now get to hear them. 

This is great news, Mark. One more for the New Year shopping list (sigh!).

Is there an Amazon link for it yet?

No, not yet. Early in the new year, I'm told.

I have the Raff Cd double!! Soon you have it!

Maybe for some of Yours will be in february catologue:

Recordsinternational.com

As noted in a post I should have made here, Recordsinternational does have it in their catalogue this month- with the proviso that it probably won't be available until around late in the month at earliest, because of various errors.

Yes, more later two weeks, Recordsinternational.com must have the double cd correct ;)

Recordsinternational.com has the correct cd now!!! ::)

It's out!
http://www.sterlingcd.com/catalogue/cds1099.html (http://www.sterlingcd.com/catalogue/cds1099.html)

Great....hope it's up on Amazon soon...

I looked this morning and saw nothing so they must be a little behind.
Tom :)

I researched a little further was told that Allegro was the Us distributor but saw no Sterling on their website. I've left emails with both Sterling and Allegro.
Tom :)

Jeff of recordsinternational.com  said me that he has the correct Raff'cd

Just received my 2CD Raff set and am listening to the Overture to Prometheus Unbound and Incidental Music to the Drama Bernhard von Weimar.
Tom :)

And what do you think, Tom?

So far Mark I've only listened once to the Overture to Prometheus so no opinion yet but I've listened to the Incidental Music to the Drama Bernhard von Weimar three times and I find it very enjoyable. The orchestra is well recorded and while I have nothing to compare it to the work seems to be well played and conducted. The liner notes are like a chapter in a book about these three works, very informative and thorough. You get done listening to it and you know Raff is not unsung but as talented as Liszt, Wagner, or Brahms. A fine work. On the basis of this I would recommend the Sterling CD.

As you probably know the first piece was written by Liszt with the arranging and orchestration done by Raff.
Tom :)

Thanks, Tom. I'll be very interested to read what you make of the orchestral excerpts from the World's-End - Judgement - New World Oratorio, which date from the end of Raff's career.

I'll most certainly keep everyone up to date with this.
Tom :)

I listened to the original Liszt tone poem Prometheus this morning and found it to be somewhat different than the recording on Sterling which is six minutes longer 18:30 compared to 12:27. Was there more than one version of this work?
Tom :)

Mark's opening introduction to the set explains this, Tom:

The other CD in the album has two very early works. It's fascinating to hear what Raff made in 1850 of Liszt's fragmentary and disjointed outline sketches for his Prometheus Unbound Overture, and to compare the result with Liszt's reworking of the material a few years later into his familiar symphonic poem. This was no mere orchestration job; Raff's is essentially his imagining of Liszt's intentions, much as Anthony Payne did with Elgar's Third Symphony, and it's at once familiar and disconcertingly different. There's as much Raff in its 18 minutes as there is Liszt.

In 1850 Liszt sketched a composition for chorus and orchestra called Prometheus Unbound which consisted of an Overture, eight Choruses with some linked melodramas and declaimed text - a setting of a poem by Herder. In all just over an hour's music and possibly a further hour's spoken dialogue. Raff had just begun working for Liszt as his amanuensis and Liszt got him to arrange and orchestrate the sketches., which were in a fragmentary state. The piece was performed just the once, after the unveiling of a statue of Herder. In 1855, Liszt completely revised and re-orchestrated the Overture as the Symphonic Poem we now know, retaining some of Raff's material, but discarding much of it. He also rewrote the choruses and both pieces were subsequently published. Listz's reworking of the choruses is available in a Hungaroton recording. Luckily, Raff's manuscript of the original piece, from which Liszt conducted the performance, and which has his scribbled performance notes, survives in Weimar.

It is now beginning to make sense to me. Liszt really did an overhaul on this one. Is there a recording of the Liszt tone poem you and Mark prefer?
Tom

I'm being dim, I'm sure, but I'm not sure what you mean, Tom. There are just the two versions of the piece: the original 1850 Raff/Liszt Overture now recorded for the first time by Sterling, and the 1855 wholly-Liszt Symphonic Poem which he created from the material in the Overture. That's been recorded umpteen times.

I assume Tom is just asking whether we have a favourite recording of the Liszt...

Ah, of course. Sorry, Tom. Blame the jet lag!

My own favourite recordings of all the Liszt symphonic poems are by the Wiener Akademie Orchester conducted by Martin Haselböck on NCA. They have a certain rawness and immediacy to them, aided by the use of a smallish orchestra and period instruments. For those very reasons they won't be to everybody's taste, I know, but I do like the way that Haselböck's approach brings out Liszt's debt to Berlioz, which is often obscured in glossier and more heavyweight performances.

Can I assume Alan that you agree with Mark about the haselbock recordings?
Tom :)

I don't know them, Tom. I've had the Masur set for years and find that very satisfying. It's probably worth looking at Noseda on Chandos too.

My previous standby was Haintink and the London Philharmonic on Philips, but I now prefer Haselböck's interpretations because they are generally edgier. That said, if you don't know Prometheus and/or some of the other symphonic poems, it might be a better idea to go for a more mainstream choice first, such as Alan's favoured Masur set, than the riskier option of Haselböck.

I have the Masur set and have no complaints...

As for this Raff disc, well need I ask again about an Amazon link? Arkivmusic doesn't help....in fact its most recent Sterling disc is the last Raff disc, from almost exactly two years ago.

Distribution does still seem to be a problem. I don't have my production copy yet either.

In the USA they have no distributor. I got my copy direct from Sterling http://www.sterlingcd.com/ (http://www.sterlingcd.com/)
There are also downloads.
Tom :)

If you go to the heading "The Company" on Sterling's website and scroll down to the bottom, there is a link to international distributors and this lists Allegro for the USA. However, Allegro Music do not seem to have this new release yet. As has been mentioned here before, Toccata in Sweden carry all Sterling CDs and they do ship worldwide, but the postage of SEK 84 outside Europe may be prohibitive for some people. Personally, I try not to use the big players to much, certainly after having read reports on how Amazon treat their staff. I like the statement on Toccata's Swedish site that stock exchange listing and a turnover of billions are not their foremost aims... :)

Toccata in Sweden are brilliant - Mr Harald Hoff there is very helpful, efficient and knowledgeable. I pay him via PayPal.

I did a brief search on Allegro and found nothing from Sterling, left an email and got no response. At that point I decided this wasn't the place to do business with. I'm not sure why he doesn't use Naxos who distributes small but important labels.
Tom :)

I started my listening process of the Intermezzi selection from the new Raff recording and I was impressed at least so far with what I heard. More later.
Tom :)

I've been listening to the new Raff double cd set for a week now, and enjoying it very much - especially the 1st march on cd 1 - great fun! BUT... has anyone else noticed some weird sounds on the cd? Almost like old LP warping - a constant thumping sound really noticeable at the end of the Liszt. Very distracting with headphones. I notice throughout the 1st cd. I hate to think that all copies are like this.

I'll have a listen with my Grado headphones and report back to you Martin to see if it is on my CD.
Tom :)

Had a listen Martin and I detected nothing.
Tom :)

Maybe just my copy. :(

Maybe the conductor?

That's what I thought for a brief moment - but the thumping doesn't match the tempo, plus I can hear it after the music ends. It's strange - never had something quite like this on a cd.

Did you buy your copy from Records International, Martin? I believe that some of the batch which they received were faulty pressings.

Oh dear. Any idea how we might be sure to get hold of corrected pressings?

I believe that stock at retailers was recalled, but I am seeing Bo Hyttner on Monday, and hope to get a definitive answer from him on the problems which have beset this release.

Thanks, Mark.

I'm grateful that I received a good copy. As an aside I saw Alan's name mentioned in the footnote and I also read parts of the book Alan and Mark wrote. I thought about ordering the book but no luck with that idea.
Tom

The book is available here: www.raff.org/shop (http://www.raff.org/shop), Tom.

ordered the biography and the list of his works. Both will be welcome in my collection.
Tom :)

https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/overture-to-prometheus-unboundliszt-and-raff/ (https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/overture-to-prometheus-unboundliszt-and-raff/)

A most welcome addition to my collection especially the World's End CD. One realizes that Raff was tuned into some of the changes that were beginning to take place and minimalism is the order of the day for this fine work.

Tom :)

Thanks for the review, Tom. I'm very pleased that you enjoyed the two CDs. As you a say in the review, Raff's intermezzi from the World's End oratorio point the way that his music was going: much more free form in structure and with leaner textures. You'll hear just the same in the four Shakespeare preludes, although they are much larger works than any of the intermezzi. Did you pick up that the main theme of the first of the two Bernhard von Weimar marches was re-used by Raff 17 years later to be the opening theme of the finale of his Piano Concerto?

Yes I did Mark and should probably make an addition in the review. I would wager that most of this forum would already know that but it might encourage others to get bitten by the Raff liking. I saw no point in bringing up the debacle that this release has been infected with. I'm sure that Bo with your suggestions will straighten out what needs to be taken care of. I'm grateful for the release.
Tom :)

I'm seeing Bo today.

I'm sure it will be productive.
Tom :)

the books arrived yesterday. Pretty quick.
Tom

Good. I hope you find them enjoyable.

When you become bitten by the Raff bug everything about him is enjoyable
Tom :)

So true, so true.

Right Said "sdtom"

Well I sure wish the Raff Bug would bite some of the young, up-and-coming conductors out there, many of whom seem hell-bent on once again surveying the worn out, over-played chestnuts.

It needs to be promoted the right way to the general public. Once they hear the bug will take over.
Tom :)

Mark if you wish we could put the Sterling review on the Raff site?

https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/overture-to-prometheus-unboundliszt-and-raff/
(https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/overture-to-prometheus-unboundliszt-and-raff/)
Tom

Thank you very much, Tom, I'll do so. But I don't update the site very frequently now as it is so mature and I have other Raff-related projects, so please don't expect it to be done straight away. Irritatingly, given my involvement in the project, I have still not received my own copy of the finished product, but I should get it now within a couple of weeks. I'll review it myself when I do and couple your review with mine. Thanks again.

CD2's the thing here. Extraordinary where Raff's music was going. More when I've absorbed the orchestral intermezzi properly...

In particular the final piece.
Tom

Well, everything really. More anon.

So, to return to the orchestral intermezzi...

If you know Raff's music well, you'll recognise certain aspects of this late music. For example, I'd say No.2 is definitely reminiscent of the finale of Lenore (galloping hoofbeats); the spooky, demonic second movement of Symphony No.8 comes to mind too. The concise nature of these pieces is also a development of the direction Raff was taking in his four Shakespeare Preludes - there is no romantic inflation here. And I think it is this rather terse, spare musical language that is most striking. It is also quite forward-looking in places. On occasions I was reminded of the severity of, say, Sibelius. No.4 is particularly arresting, with its clashing harmonies - Tapiola seems just round the corner. Extraordinary.   

Raff proves himself to be a truly original composer in these pieces. It is fascinating to speculate what he might have produced had he lived longer. The fact that these works are barely known is an absolute scandal. They constitute music like no other of their time. I urgently recommend forum members to get hold of this superlative set.

Finally, the last intermezzo is just heart-easingly beautiful. So pure, so free of romantic excess, so consoling. Truly wonderful.

Tom, you're right!

couldn't say it any better
Tom :)

Quotehas anyone else noticed some weird sounds on the cd? Almost like old LP warping - a constant thumping sound really noticeable at the end of the Liszt. Very distracting with headphones. I notice throughout the 1st cd.

Having now had a chance to listen to CD 1 at leisure (courtesy of Mark), I must say I can hear the same thing. Is yours similarly affected, Mark?

I can tell you that mine is not.
Tom

I'm sorry that you have noises off, Gareth. I didn't hear them on my copy, but I'll listen again. Where, specifically?

Thanks for the info by PM and 'phone call, Gareth.

I've now listened to my copy on headphones and confirm that the noises on CD1 are all present, and there are also some of the "bumps" at the beginning of track 2 on the second CD, but otherwise it seems clear of the faults besetting the first disc.  I was in touch several times yesterday with Bo Hyttner who, having listened to the CDs, also now confirms the presence of the artefacts. He tells me that, due to continued distribution problems, as far as he is aware the only copies of the set on sale should be through Records International (which obtained them through a direct channel from Sterling), and he has contacted Jeff Joneikis to alert him about the issue. The problem appears to be the recording masters, not the manufacturing process, so he has also contacted the recording engineers to rectify the problems and prepare replacement masters. He assures me that he will not release the set for full distribution until these issues have been dealt with. So, it is clear that there will be further delay before this important set is generally available.

Needless to say, as I have been closely involved in the recording from its inception, personally I find this situation galling and frustrating in the extreme. It really is not good enough, to say the least, that this release should be delayed for so long, and then be issued with multiple faults of which the label seems to have been unaware until yesterday. I can only apologise to those of you who eagerly awaited this release for several years, only to receive defective copies. I suggest that if you bought your copy from Records International you should contact Jeff in the first instance - he should be aware of the issue by now. The one or two people who received a copy direct from me will get replacements as soon as they are available.

I'm very sorry that you have had to put up with this, Mark. All I can say is that the wait will be worth it because the music is so magnificent. We are all immensely in your debt.

That's kind of you Alan. I do appreciate it.

Mark, I am confronted with similar problems regarding my lastest Fritz Brun CD (Symphony Nr. 2 and Symphonic Prologue). As soon as I listetend to a copy, I couldn't recognize the sound anymore - it was different from the master I had approved; now it has additional reverberation and the strings sound more far away. This is not Guild's fault, but comes from the Moscow studio responsibles - who, of course, cannot explain this. It is really frustrating to have to deal with such kind of surprises, especially after one has carefully set up the balance with the sound engineer and producer. I am a perfectionist, I know, and this may perhaps not disturb most music lovers, but, still...
I think, the times of real serious work in the music business have gone by for ever...

So this still appears to be MIA on Amazon and  ArkivMusic (not to mention where I often buy CDs, ImportCDs)....

Really hoping this gets a US distribution as the price is pretty high in the very few places I can see to buy it...

Do you mean the Guild CD, TerraEpon?
This label is distributend in the USA by Albany Music. I agree with you, the prices are rather high...

No, I mean the Sterling CD. I'm wondering if they simply don't have a US distributor anymore as Arkiv's latest release from them is about two years old.

I like this board because without it I'd not have known it even existed.

I've been interested in acquiring this recording for the entire 2 ½ years since it was first mentioned here - but due to the reported noises on the eventual recording when issued, I have held off.  Not much commentary lately, does anyone have news as to the recording being re-engineered?  I also cannot find it in the usual places (Amazon, etc) - I see it only at Records International (for $32  29€), but that was the location which evidently had the imperfect recordings in the first place, so...hmmm.
Anyone have any current news or recent first-hand experience with this recording, good, bad, or indifferent?!
Gregory

.....what the above post said.

I understand that the recording has been withdrawn from sale by Sterling pending the re-engineering of the master to remove the audio artefacts. I have no idea how long that is going to take, and neither does Sterling it seems. Maybe someone else could try contacting Bo Hyttner?

This has got to be the saddest case of delayed music release due to one setback after another... :(

Tell me about it...  :(

And two months later I remember this recording was a thing, tried to look for it on Amazon, but forgot about the audio issue. So it's still in purgatory it seems.
Waystone seems to be distributing Sterling now and it's listed there:
http://www.wyastone.co.uk/swiss-romantics-joachim-raff-orchestral-works-1847.html

But no sound samples or 'links to external sites'.

The last time I spoke to Bo Hyttner, which was several months ago, release was "imminent", but we are still waiting and to the best of my knowledge there is no prospect of seeing it in the public domain soon. To be quite honest, my calling Stockholm is now a complete waste of time and money, not to mention the risk to my blood pressure. As I suggested before, perhaps someone else could try contacting Bo to enquire after progress? His email address at Sterling is sterling@mbox301.swipnet.se and the phone number is +46 866 71177. Good luck!

Even from my part I am not bothering anymore to call Bo on this unfortunate subject...

Sterling Records are a very small company who have recorded many works which we may never have had the opportunity of hearing.  I have made this point before on this forum, that if someone wishes to come up with a substantial sum of money then orchestral recordings can be rehearsed and recorded in a very short period of time.  To record orchestral music is extremely complex and costly.  The strain of doing this particularly when one individual has to organise it all is immense.  There are many musicians who want to be recorded, there are many listeners who want works to be recorded and they often do not coincide with each other.  I wont detail all that is involved but do know, from my experience of just running weekly concerts without any recording problems, it is almost a full time job and can be very stressful.

There is the implication by some on this forum that relatively small independent companies should do this and that.  Give them the funds and they might, otherwise try Universal or Warner.

Giles, all that you say is true. Suffice to say that my frustration with this situation is precisely because I have put my money where my mouth is, and have sponsored all Sterling's Raff recordings, including this one.

...in which case the delay in putting right the problems associated with it is totally inexcusable.

Mark, As you have sponsored all the Raff recordings on Sterling, I would assume that you have some sort of legal right to their ownership in particular for the music which has yet to be released.  Perhaps this recording could be released by another record label?  I wonder if the performers and recording engineers have been paid.

There still remain the technical problems involved - which Sterling, having advertised and supposedly released the product, should now be putting right without delay. It's their responsibility, no-one else's.

I agree that from what has been said it is Sterling's responsibility and an explanation is due from them but it would seem the situation has reached stalemate for the time being and that is not a good sign.

Only one party is responsible for the situation as it exists, i.e. a recording with unresolved technical issues - and that is Sterling. Whether this is a 'stalemate' or not, it is entirely of Sterling's making. And the CD is still being advertised on Sterling's own website: http://www.sterlingcd.com/catalogue/cds1099.html (http://www.sterlingcd.com/catalogue/cds1099.html).

Until we get firm news of a resolution of the technical issues involved, I suggest this discussion be suspended for the time being. It's getting us nowhere and, I imagine, Mark T. is already very annoyed about it. As would I be.

Thanks for your input, Giles, but I don't want to wash Sterling's (or my) dirty linen in public. Let's just let matters take their course for now, eh? A very slow course in this case...

Bo Hyttner tells me that he now has new masters for the two CDs, and that we can expect to see the recording reappear next year "together with a number of new products that we have been waiting to release".

I imagine that you're pleased about this, Mark. Let's hope the new masters do the trick...

Puzzling, jpc.de is advertising this 2Cd-set, for a very competitive price, but are these recordings and pressings that don't have the faults mentioned some months ago in this topic?
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/orchesterwerke/hnum/8412791 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/orchesterwerke/hnum/8412791)

Quote: (Bo Hyttner who, having listened to the CDs, also now confirms the presence of the artefacts. He tells me that, due to continued distribution problems, as far as he is aware the only copies of the set on sale should be through Records International (which obtained them through a direct channel from Sterling), and he has contacted Jeff Joneikis to alert him about the issue. The problem appears to be the recording masters, not the manufacturing process, so he has also contacted the recording engineers to rectify the problems and prepare replacement masters. He assures me that he will not release the set for full distribution until these issues have been dealt with. So, it is clear that there will be further delay before this important set is generally available.)

I have no idea whether these are the new pressing, but I doubt it because the release date (Erscheinungstermin) given is 29 March 2012, which would indicate the original faulty CDs. To the best of my knowledge only Records International had them, but maybe jpc had a batch too. Once I know the re-release date I'll post it here, but until then I'd counsel caution.

At the risk of flogging a deceased equine....every week or two I make yet another attempt to acquire this recording - as I have throughout the well-over-three years since it was announced on this forum.  Today I tried again, and thought I'd check in at the Sterling website, on the off-chance that there is availability - or news, good or bad.  The website is, for me anyway, unavailable - "cannot connect to server sterlingcd.com".  Anyone know if this is just a temporary internet hiccup, or something more ominous?

Interesting. I can't connect to the website either.

Yes, the web site is down. I'll tell Bo Hyttner in case he doesn't know.

On the question of the ever-imminent CD set, Bo wrote to me on 13th December: "Regarding the two set Raff, we have now a new master. We will reintroduce this production into the market with the new master, together with a number of new products that we have been waiting to release".  The last I heard from him was on 11th February: "Regarding Raff, the corrected masters have been sent to Wyastone, for replacement. I hope by now you will be pleased with the result." Well, so do I, but it would be good to see the set available at long last. Wyastone, for those who don't know, is a reference to Nimbus who manufacture Sterling's CDs.

I posted it above, but I'll post it again: www.wyastone.co.uk/swiss-romantics-joachim-raff-orchestral-works-1848.html  (http://www.wyastone.co.uk/swiss-romantics-joachim-raff-orchestral-works-1848.html)
It's letting you order it now, I don't believe you could back when I posted it last.

Thanks, that's hopeful. The Sterling web site is back up, by the way.

Thanks. It'll be good to hear whether the new master actually addresses the problems which beset the original.

That's the whole point of making a replacement - so it had better!

Quite.

How now one will recognise optically the old from the new issue? Does Wyastone sell only the new one?

I believe that the few copies of the original faulty pressings which were distributed by Sterling have been returned to them at their request. So when the set finally goes on sale (it still isn't yet to my knowledge) then it will only be the new pressings supplied to retailers direct by Wyastone.

Frequent attempts to find this elusive item may have finally paid off, and maybe there's light at the end of the sad tunnel-story.  It is now on the MDT website, for quite an attractive £10.50 price, especially good for a 2-cd set.  Plus, for us colonists, MDT is always a preferred order source when they have availability, as their shipping charge is quite minimal (£1.50), at least compared to the amusingly-transparent "shipping charge" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) of, say, jpc!  Anyway, my finger is hovering over MDT's "submit order" button but thought I'd ask if anyone has any news or input, to further confirm that this will, in fact, be the newly mastered version?  I know Mark said any new availability ought to be the corrected version, but considering the history, just being cautious.  Then again, if the general membership so votes, I will volunteer to be the guinea pig and buy, and report back with official findings.   8) ::) 8)

http://www.mdt.co.uk/raff-joachim-orchestral-works-goteborgs-operaorkester-henrik-schaefer-sterling-2cds.html (http://www.mdt.co.uk/raff-joachim-orchestral-works-goteborgs-operaorkester-henrik-schaefer-sterling-2cds.html)

Gregory

This is news to me Gregory, but I suspect that it'll be the newly-pressed re-issue as MDT had no stock before, and they're in the UK where the CDs are now manufactured by Wyastone. I'll check with Bo Hyttner, though. Keep that finger hovering a few moments longer!

The immediate answer from Bo is "maybe"! Wyastone has the new master and they are in charge of distribution, so I think that in all likelihood this MDT advertisement is the first evidence that this set will at last be available. That said, Bo is checking with Wyastone and will get back to me.

Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 27 April 2016, 08:01
This is news to me Gregory, but ....Keep that finger hovering a few moments longer!

Too late!    8) 8)

I think that you'll be OK, but as soon as I get confirmation I'll post it here.

Gregory, I am now assured by Bo that it is the new pressing, so all should be OK. I have yet to hear it myself, however, so I can't guarantee that the issues which required the making of a new master have been resolved. To that extent, I'm afraid that it's still fingers crossed!

Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 27 April 2016, 10:11
Gregory, I am now assured by Bo that it is the new pressing, so all should be OK. I have yet to hear it myself, however, so I can't guarantee that the issues which required the making of a new master have been resolved. To that extent, I'm afraid that it's still fingers crossed!

Good enough for me - I already chose to go not-so-gentle-into-that-good-night as far as the "hovering finger" was concerned, so we shall see.  Then again, I'm on the other side of the world from MDT, so if there are others on this forum, geographically closer, who place the same order, they are of course likely to get their copies well ahead of me.  I'll happily report on what I get but maybe others will beat me to it?!  Thanks, Mark - over these last few years I think we all sense, understand, and sympathize with your frustration with this long, sad story but maybe a wonderful musical recording is, at long last, at hand.  Our thanks to you.

Gregory

Thanks, that's very much appreciated. The final, recent missive in a flurry of emails between the UK and Sweden has brought confirmation that all sets which will be available from retail channels are manufactured to order by Wyastone using the new master, and that includes those supplied to MDT. I also have a few sets coming my way, so I'll be able to report on the success of the remastering as soon as they arrive.

I've just ordered this from JPC, along with the Draeseke complete piano music CD that was mentioned on another thread! So much to listen to, really looking forward to hearing these!

MDT got their new cd out to me in record time, and a quick listen to the Prometheus Unbound reveals a complete lack of thumping.  Just as composed.   8)

My copy arrived yesterday from JPC, I plan to have a proper listen later on today.  :)

Conductor Lorenzo Coladonato (a friend of mine). will present Raff's Ninth Symphony and his "Eine Feste Burg" op.127 in Schaffhausen, on Saturday March 18th, 2017. The Orchestra will be the Musikkollegium Winterthur. In the same program, a Mozart Piano Concerto will be performed by Andrew Tyson

I plan to be there, with any luck!

I have just received several copies of the final pressing of this 2 CD set, which has been made by Wyastone with new masters. Although I haven't had chance to listen to the recordings yet, I am assured that the artefacts which marred the original discs have been removed. I do hope that's so, and that after five years I can safely recommend this important release to all Raff enthusiasts.

You must be very grateful, Mark. It's been a long haul.

Thankful, Gareth, certainly. Grateful? No, not really: it should never have taken five years to correct the masters. But, moving on....

I'm glad the torture's over, Mark - for your sake.

Hear, hear! You deserved much better.

I bought this almost two months ago. I don't notice any issues with the sound.
(I do note however that, like all recent Waystone-distributed releases, it's a CDR)

Great release though. I am curious about one thing the liner notes seem a bit vague on -- the 'original' version of the overture for Bernhard von Weimar, is it lost? The notes seem to imply what is recorded is the published Op. 127 but it's not 100% clear.

When the recording was made the manuscript of the full incidental music to Bernhard von Weimar was indeed lost. Only the two marches had been published. The Overture was revised several times by Raff, transposing it from C major to D major, altering the ending and changing some of the instrumentation. The revised piece is about 25% longer than the original Bernhard von Weimar Overture and was published as the Overture Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott Op.127. The recording uses this later version, together with the two marches. A few months after it was made I located an autograph of the full original BvW score in Berlin (and subsequently another copy in Wemar!), but obviously it was too late then to record the Overture.  That said, what's on the CD does give a very fair representation of the full BvW score: the Overture and marches together amount to more than 75% of the incidental music, the bulk of the rest comprises unaltered repeats of the closing pages of the Overture and the first march, together with 8 very short fanfares or marches for trumpets and/or drums.

Although Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott has been recorded before, there's no modern recording of this important piece which seems to be slowly regaining its place in concert halls (in Germany and Switzerland at least).

Having listened to both re-mastered CDs I'm relieved to report that they are indeed blessedly free of the defects which marred the earlier pressings. The performances themselves are absolutely first rate.

Speaking of Ein feste Burg...have you seen this?

http://www.artsjournal.com/2017/02/did-a-violin-teach-in-texas-just-break-elgars-enigma.html

Thanks Martin,. I was prepared to be convinced until the Turin Shroud made an appearance. Who knew Erich von Däniken was a musicologist??

It's all fake noos from bad people, terrible people... ;)

Apparently, so I was told once, Elgar gave a radio interview shortly before his death in which he was asked whether he would ever reveal the identity of the theme of the Enigma Variations, to which he responded, very deliberately, "Never, never, never." On this basis it has been suggested by some that the theme is just those 6 notes from the refrain of "Rule Britannia". I rather like this theory, in as much as I like any theory about this question.

If it's true then that is really neat.

Quite a bit earlier in this thread a concert by the Musikkollegium Winterthur in March 2017 was mentioned: "Conductor Lorenzo Coladonato (a friend of mine). will present Raff's Ninth Symphony and his "Eine Feste Burg" op.127 in Schaffhausen, on Saturday March 18th, 2017. The Orchestra will be the Musikkollegium Winterthur. In the same program, a Mozart Piano Concerto will be performed by Andrew Tyson. I have just found out that this concert will be played twice, on Friday, 17th March at 7.30 pm in Schaffhausen and on Saturday, 18th March at 5.00 pm in Winterthur. This latter is a free concert where numbered seats can be booked for a modest fee: here (http://www.musikkollegium.ch/event-detail?event=18602)
If any UC members are planning – like me – to attend the Saturday concert, then I'd be happy to meet up with them in person.

I'll be there.

Well, it was very good to meet Wheesht, and we were treated to a superb concert. Honestly, I have never heard a better performance of Ein feste Burg (and I've heard quite a few over the years),  and the Sommer Sinfonie was quite a revelation.  Coladonato (a name new to me) thoroughly understands Raff's idiom and 19th century performing practice, drawing from his fine orchestra performances which combined real vigour with lush sensitivity. I delighted in hearing inner voices which are obscured in all the recordings we have, and which added so much to the work's impact. The biggest surprise was the finale - often the weakest movement in a Raff work. Last night the packed audience in Winterthur's grand concert hall was galvanised by a conclusion in which Coladonato didn't crudely just go for speed, but subtly graded tempi and dynamics to show that Raff's finales really could work in the right hands. It was a welcome eye-opener, for me at least. Although not the focus of the forum, I should add that the Mozart concerto received an equally excellent rendition from both soloist and orchestra. The concert was recorded, but I'm not sure by whom. If I can get hold of the recording and share it legitimately, be sure I will. And now, back down to earth...

It was a pleasure to meet Mark, and I agree with everything he has written about the concert – it was recorded by Swiss Radio and will be broadcast on Thursday, 13th April at 20.00 CET on: SRF 2 Kultur (http://www.srf.ch/sendungen/im-konzertsaal/joachim-raff-der-schweizer-brahms)

...and hopefully recorded by one of us...

I shall give it a go; it seems I have audio recording under control now.

Thanks for the news of the broadcast, Wheesht. Hopefully we'll get a good recording to share, and I do urge anyone interested in Raff to make sure they get to hear it. If it is at all a faithful record then it will prove as much of a revelation as Neeme Järvi's Chandos recordings did (although in a rather different way).

Ilja has kindly posted a recording of the broadcast of the two Raff works in the Winterthur concert in our Downloads Board here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6452.0.html). I do hope that Swiss Radio has mangaged to capture just how special these performances were.

Thank you!