With a number of excellent first recordings of symphonies having come out during 2015 (Bargiel in C, Rudorff 3, etc.), I'd very much like to hear which other romantic-era symphonies forum members would like to draw the attention of recording labels to for 2015. Please accompany your suggestions with reasons so that we avoid mere list-making!
To kick off: the four symphonies by Ödön Mihalovich (1842-1929):
No. 1 in D minor (1879), premiere: Budapest,1885.
No. 2 in B minor (1892), premiere: Budapest, 1893.
No. 3 in A minor, 'Patethique'(sic) (In memoriam Elisabeth, Empress of Austria and Queen
consort of Hungary, 1900), premiere: Budapest, 1901.
No. 4 in C minor (1902), premiere: Budapest, 1903.
Reason: Mihalovich was known as a Wagnerian, so it would be interesting to hear what he did with the symphony in this period.
Two Germanic mid-romantic nominations from me:
1. Julius Otto Grimm (1827-1903): Symphony in D minor Op.19 (published in 1875, but probably written in the 1850s).
Reason: Things will be clearer when we have Chris Fifield's book (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5216.0.html), but Grimm was a great friend of Brahms, and allegedly this symphony was a major influence on Brahms' symphonic thinking. There are a couple of MIDIs available which hint at something very special and the score is at imslp here (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_in_D_minor,_Op.19_%28Grimm,_Julius_Otto%29).
2. Ferdinand Hiller (1811-1885): Symphony in E minor op. 67 (1848) - motto: Es muss doch Frühling werden (There Must Be Spring).
Reason: The first movement (broadcast three years ago and still available to download here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,1373.msg24073.html#msg24073), courtesy of BritishComposer) is a hugely impressive piece of work, and I'd love to hear the other three movements in the hope that Hiller maintained his inspiration in them..
The full score of the Hiller is available at IMSLP, so if one can read score one can get at least some idea (though an actual, good, performance would be much preferable to - well, yes.) (Likewise Mihalovich's first symphony) Have performing materials for the 2nd-4th symphonies of Mihalovich been located? (Apologies for my tone!)
I hope cpo will move on to Rudorff 2; have heard a recording of it and am impressed, but am sure they can do better. I also hope they'll try Wilhelm Reinhard Berger's and Wilhelm Taubert's symphonies on for size (the latter's 4th(?) in B minor seems impressive in score anyway; if any of the others survive I'd like to hear them, and the B minor too.)
OK - quick first response:
1) Adelina de Lara – Symphony
Reason: pure curiosity! de Lara was born in 1872 in Carlisle, not a long way from where I grew up, but was a friend of Brahms and studied with Clara Schuman; she lived a long life that spanned a host of musical styles and tastes; she was awarded the Order of the British Empire, and was a remarkable woman; the symphony is hardly mentioned anywhere, but was once available from YouTube - it quickly disappeared and I missed it!
QuoteHave performing materials for the 2nd-4th symphonies of Mihalovich been located?
Good question. One for your unparallelled sleuthing skills, Eric?
I know they have been recorded, but I am sure I am not alone in hoping that CPO will at last release the set of Jadassohn's symphonies in 2015.
Of Romantic era symphonies I would like to see recorded in 2015, that by Stojowski comes near the top of my list. The YouTube recording shows what a splendid work this, but the somewhat recessed sound on YouTube makes one wish for a good digital version.
Any of Emanuel Moor's symphonies would also be welcome - especially the C major (1895) "In memoriam Lajos Kossuth". This score is available at IMSLP and I consider it to be a noble work.
If Joseph Holbrooke is not too late for this forum, his Choral Symphony "Hommage to Edgar Allan Poe" and 2nd Symphony "Apollo and the Seaman" are extraordinary scores which it would be wonderful to hear well performed.
Re Mihalovich, I'll see if I can contact and find out from the author of a recent dissertation on the composer, an Akos Windhager. (Szechenyi Library catalog lists about 2 dozen works by him, but no symphonies. Will check other places...)
Thank you very much indeed, Eric.
I forget if we have a separate thread about Mihalovich- seems worth having- but there is a 10-page summary of the thesis in PDF here (http://doktori.btk.elte.hu/lit/windhagerakos/thesis.pdf). The entire 295-page dissertation (in Hungarian) is here (http://doktori.btk.elte.hu/lit/windhagerakos/diss.pdf).
Thanks, Eric. I did some googling too. There also appears to be a 37-page version of the thesis in German.
Hrrrrrrmmmm. Interesting. Judging from the movement-by-movement descriptions of Mihalovich's symphonies that Windhager gives toward the end of his dissertation (the 295-page version), I'm guessing either they still exist, or they were described at great length in music journals at the time of their premieres (admittedly, not all that unusual then). Hopefully the former. E.g.
(translating a little, copying the rest- sorry!)
Symphony 3 E-moll, Patetikus (60', Kerner: 50'):
Symphonie Pathetique pour grand Orchesre
K: 1900.02.20., 3.tétel: 1898.12.xx, ea: 1901.01.30., a 4.tétel:1899.01.25., mj:?
Zenekara: 1 kisfuvola, 3 nagyfuvola, 3 oboa, 1 angolkürt, 3 klarinét, 1 basszusklarinét, 3 fagott, 1 kontrafagott, 4 kürt, 3 trombita, 3 harsona, 1 tuba, üstdob, cintányér, hárfa, vonósok
1.tétel: Allegro patetico-Sostenuto-Bentenuto (25', 15 ')
2.tétel: Scherzo-Allegro-Trio (10-9')
3.tétel: Marcia funebre sulla morte dell' Imperatrice Regine Elisabetta d' Austria-Ungheria, Grave e lento (11-10')
4.tétel: Allegro con brio, (Epithalame Paola Borhese esküvőjére) (Ünnepi hangok címmelis) (15', 12 ')
That's from pp277-78 of his dissertation.
Two nominations for me:
1) The Symphony by Ildebrando Pizzetti (contemporary of Britten' Sinfonia da Requiem and commissioned by Japan) but in idiom decidedly Romantic.
An undeservedly otstanding Symphny by a very worth musician (in awful sound tha first performance circulates on the web).
2) An impossible wish.
The Symphony n.1 in d minor (1900) and the Symphony n.2 in d minor (1912) by Francesco Paolo Neglia.
Do the latter symphonies survive in performable shape? Some of his works do (and indeed in versions by Renzo Bossi a couple of his works can be found at IMSLP... other works of his are listed at Worldcat ; sbn.it lists 220 things by him, maybe the symphonies in some form or other?... (I do see a piano quartet. That intrigues too. I'd like to find out more about him generally, having uploaded that brief work by him to IMSLP in the first place ;) ) (In connection with Neglia: this, by a relative of his, I think. (http://www.jimneglia.com/francesco_paulo_neglia.html))
About Pizzetti I wanted to say "undeservedly neglected".
Neglia (1874-1932):
I am puzzled by his life; obscurity in native Sicily and generally in Italy, apparently success in Germany (circa 1900-1914) as composer, conductor, teacher and musical organizer, then return to Italy and again modest obscurity.
A "Largo espressivo op.40" for violin and organ (on a Tactus Cd) appears worthy. Some Neglia snippet is on the web in awful sound.
Well, there's two websites devoted to him - http://www.francescopaoloneglia.it/ (http://www.francescopaoloneglia.it/) and the one noted above.
Further on symphonies re 2015, I'd like to see Koechlin's 2nd finally get a commercial recording, having now heard 2 different non-commercial versions of it (I think they're in our old upload section somewheres.) Orledge talks about the work at interesting length too in one of his Koechlin books. Even though most of the work is transcriptions from other (little-known) works of his own (but such well-done transcriptions- and I don't mean "respectful" - certainly not in the sense of "stodgy", unless the performance is...), he does it with flair, and the finale, new to the symphony, ties it all together...
The full score (if I understand- I think full score- maybe parts- hopefully not just reduction....) of Neglia's D minor symphony Op.30 ("56 P") of 1912, in an edition by Renzo Bossi (son, I believe, of a rather more famous Bossi...) was published in 1955 by Augusta of Torino/Turin?- ah, this is the Symphony 1 Op.10P below - Biblioteca del Monumento nazionale di Praglia - Teolo has a copy of this as do several other Italian libraries, according to SBN (95 page score, the 2nd entry SBN has for it makes this part clear, ok, good. 95 page score (reduced?), 225 page full score? -- ah. Here we are...
" · Sinfonie, coro (3 voci), orchestra, n. 2, op. 30 (56 P), re min."
Full score (225pp) at Biblioteca del Conservatorio statale di musica Nicolò Paganini - Genova - GE.
(The "56 P" refers to a cataloguing system sometimes used for Neglia's works.)
Ah, ok, I see I was confused. Both symphonies are in D minor. The score at Teolo is the symphony no.1 for organ and orchestra in D minor "Op. 10P", 124 pages, ©1955, edited by Bossi, possibly not published until posthumously. The symphony no.2, Op.30, also D minor, with 3 vocal parts, 225 pages (manuscript?) full score, 95 pages reduced score, is the other one, perhaps published in some form (reduced?) during his lifetime, not sure... According to SBN, about 8-10 or so Italian libraries have copies of each score in some form or other (the 95-page (reduced?) version of sym.2, the full 124pp score of sym. 1.)
Dear Alan
I think as you!! Erick is one phantastic researcher!!
Dear Gareth
I have good news for you. In february-march, we will performance and recording the Moór's second symphony. We received of Moór Society the piece that was performance in broadcasting
in Hungria. It's one interesting work!! Moreover will be include the piano concert op 46 in C minor.
Mihalovich is one very interesting project. It will be good to know where is the material
Scharwenka Phillip
Symphony
Symphony Brevis
I have some much interest for his works. The symphonic works recorded in Sterling, talk about his genious and talent. I hope in 2016 have good news about these works. While I'm in way for get the scores! ;D
Dear Aramiarz,
I am absolutely thrilled to hear you will record the 2nd symphony and Op. 46 piano concerto by Moor. That is really exciting news. If you can tell me more about the project I would be extremely grateful.
Best wishes
... thank you :)
Has anyone here heard anything more about those cpo releases that were once expected of symphonies by Ewald Straesser and Julius Weissmann? I think the recordings, or some of them, already exist (or it's possible that the ones we've heard might not be the ones they'll use - but anyhow, broadcast -recordings- of some of these works (e.g. the first two of Straesser's 6 symphonies, etc.) under forces that sometimes record for cpo, already exist... - and cpo does progress at its own pace (and (enough ands, Eric!) I would be the last one to encourage hurry rather than encourage craft and preparation of recordings, liner notes, releases, etc.) - still, with these composers too one would like to know.
I haven't heard or seen the other 4 Straesser symphonies beyond a small scrap available @ RISM.info of his 4th (but Furtwängler conducted some of them, as did other fairly well-known conductors, etc. ...)
(Gah, sometimes, too hard to choose -one- thing one would like. And very glad indeed to hear about the progress re: performing and recording Moór's symphonies; I also looked, and look, forward to this. Who would have thought there'd be any progress at all? Not I! )
Mihalovich: Mailing Mr. Windhager on Facebook, I guess (other-folder time...). He even includes e.g. themes (and analytical detail) from the 2nd symphony at p.195 of his dissertation. one -hopes- the work still exists, given such detail...
I would like for someone to play or record the Op. 26 Symphonie Dramatique 'Les Amazones' (1884), and Op. 37 Callirhoë. Ballet symphonique (1888) by Cecile Chaminade 1857-1944. I have always been intrigued by her work and read in a few places that some of her big works and better works such as the big choral symphonies were subsumed by her reputation for light, "popular" songs and piano pieces in the estimation of musical appreciators and history as well. While I don't know scores, etc. these would be of great interest to me. I have the sense from some of my readings that she was a deeper and more well rounded composer than her sort of contemporary Augusta Holmes, whose big pieces are not so memorable. Anyway, I am always interested in the big works by women and being enamored of Marie Jaell's piano concertos I would like to hear more of her orchestral works, though I don't see a symphony per se listed. Thanks, Jim
About Chaminade I think that she wrote charming, refinated and well crafted, the flute concertine op 107 and piano concert op 40 are good pieces. Interesting your wishes. It's available the Marie piano concert?
Jaëll's piano concertos- not commercially, yet, I think, but in a broadcast recording one can hear in our archive "folder" and perhaps on YouTube as well... (looking at her published (incl. posthumously, edited by others) output on Worldcat.org is intriguing. Some big choral stuff, a cello sonata, string quartet in G minor... hrm!)
And I should have remembered Emilie Mayer (1812-83), whose B minor symphony was performed (in a reconstruction) and broadcast (I think- in the event, there's an mp3 performance in our archives, I believe...) and whose symphonies are being edited generally, I think, by someone who posts here (rosflute, if memory serves) - Mayer's E major symphony has already been published in her edition. The B minor has me hoping to hear more of them.
Here's another recording suggestion for classical labels championing unsung repertoire to strongly consider. German choral composer Otto Jochum (1898-1969) - brother of the renowned conductor Eugen Jochum - composed two of his large scale programmatic works, the "Goethe" (1940) and "Florianer" (1946) Symphonies, the latter of which was dedicated to Bruckner. Like Pfitzner, Otto Jochum composed in a nationalistically Germanic postromantic idiom somewhat akin to the style of Hans Pfitzner which deserves to be further explored and revived. Scant details of this composer can be found here:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Jochum&prev=search
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Jochum,_Otto&prev=search
http://books.google.com.sg/books/about/Goethe_Symphonie.html?id=46KcMgAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
http://musicalics.com/en/node/91650
http://musicalics.com/en/node/281832
Otto Jochum may be comparatively "modern" in terms of his historical lifespan placement which predominantly occupies the 20th century. However, the spirit of his musical style is essentially neo-romantic in the retrospective sense.
Best wishes to one and all. ;)
If Jochum is both "postromantic" and "neo-romantic" he could well be post-UC, too, I'm afraid.
My wishlist: the 3 unrecorded symphonies by Cornelis Dopper
No. 1 Diana (1896), premiered in 2005 (!)
No. 4 Sinfoniëtta in A minor (1909)
No. 5 Sinfonia Epica for soprano, alto, tenor, bass, chorus and orchestra (1908)
Reason: contemporary Dutch modernist composers like Pijper and Vermeulen thought of Dopper's music that it was too old fashioned. Maybe that is the reason why I like his symphonies.
Hear, hear, Peter! They get my vote too - and for much the same reason.
I'm sure they thought of quite a lot of music so. Not all of it was any good. For what that's worth. (I quite like the Dopper I've heard, but not for those reasons. Do negative reasons - I like something because someone else hated it - ever really suffice? The 3rd symphony's obstinate opening theme really sticks in the memory, for instance, and is a, though not the only, good reason, to return to the symphony again...)
All reasons count, Eric. I just wanted to avoid pointless list-making!
I have a recording of a radio broadcast of Dopper's First Symphony, which is possibly the premiere performance. I'll just make sure that there's no copyright issue, and upload it if that's no bar.
It's in our downloads "archive" - I could edit in the link (which still works, it seems)?
Oh, well done, Eric - that must be where I got the recording in the first place! So, yes, you can download Amphissa's recording of the 2005 premiere performance of Dopper's First Symphony from our Download Archive here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,1481.msg17838.html#msg17838).
Many thanks Mark, Eric and Amphissa! This must be the first and only performance of Dopper's First. Tomorrow I will give it a first listen.
Dear Gareth:
The Moor project start with the 2nd Symphony And the piano concert op 46
Too we have the purpose for performance And recording Other three piano concerts, And the 6th Symphony (Casals loved it), there are more symphonies, one of them dedicated to Volkmar Andreae.
We want to do the triple concert (dedicated to Cortot, Casals And Thibaud) And the violin concert (dedicated to Thibaud). Rhapsodie op 93. There are much work!!
Dear Erick And Mark, thank You for Dopper's music!
Thank you, Aramiarz, for the details of the Emanuel Moor project. I am really excited by this news and I sincerely wish you every success.
I echo Gareth's good wishes.
So do I! I first came across the name Emanuel Moór in a German biographical dictionary of Romantic composers about a dozen years ago and would have loved to hear some of his orchestral music. I had almost given up hope when the first cello concerto CDs came out, and now here is more grat news.
Another composer whose symphonies I'd love to hear is Joseph Lauber (1864-1952). I only know his Concerto for Double Bass, coupled with Brun's Symphony no. 2 on a Gallo CD from 1994. Reason: I think the concerto is a really attractive piece, full of virtuoso playing and changing moods, and I would like to know how Lauber fared with longer works and what the symphonies (there are 5) of someone who lived so long sound like. The University of Lausanne apparently has (some of) his left papers, but one would have to contact to find out what is included there.
I would add to my list the
Jean Hunyade Symphony op.5 by Vincent d'Indy (1874-75).
If there was a recording, I never saw it; if it is a symphony just by name, anyway the composer called it "symphony" (while he didn.' make so with the not so later Wallenstein Trilogy).
Anyway it could be a good discovery.
(I don't know if the Chandos series has this in project).
Well, the Wallenstein Trilogy isn't a symphony, it's a symphonic poem. He was fairly clear on the distinction, I think- on the one hand his A minor symphony (withdrawn, now recorded twice), symphony on a French Mountain Air (maybe a bit blurry on the edges between the two, to be fair, if not between symphony and symphonic poem then between symphony and concerto, recorded a few times), symphony in B-flat Op.57 and symphony in D Op.70 (1916-8) "Sinfonia Brevis de Bello Gallico".
.........The 2 Symphonies of Wilhelm Kempff (1895-1991) please !!
Do they fit our criteria?...
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html)
We've had threads like this one before. And it is always interesting to read what other members like to hear. But I expect we all know that the chances for our wishes to become true are virtually none. That said I'm happy to present my wishlist of symphonies, all by composers known to me through other one of more other symphonies they've written, and it is just out of curiosity that I want to hear them.
- Sgambati: Symphony No. 2 in E flat Major
- Klughardt: Symphony No. 4 in C minor Op. 57
- Senfter: Symphonies No. 3 in A Major Op. 43, No. 5 in E minor and No. 6 in E flat Major
- Baussnern: Symphonies No. 2 in B minor "Dem Andenken von Johannes Brahms" (1899) and No. 4 in C minor (1914)
- Weigl: Symphonies No. 1 in E Major Op. 5 and No. 2 in D Minor Op. 19
To technically keep the thread on track, this particular thread, unlike some others, is specifically a wishlist for commercial recordings- so that including pieces one's heard that haven't yet been commercially recorded is not only allowed, it's probably a good idea. It allows one to better judge whether the work is worth a conductor and orchestra's time, effort and money, assuming they can find the material again (it may have been lost since the work was broadcast, remember... this does happen. See for example York Bowen symphony 3.) (The Sgambati 2nd, like the Cliffe 2nd, is a work which is in preparation, as one knows from other posts in this forum - in my honest opinion (I'm no admin, nor do I desire to be one here) I know I'd "allow" that sort of thing too on the grounds that very few people could possibly _have_ heard it properly so far, or not in years, but there is probably at least one or two good reasons -beyond the name of the composer and a wish to hear everything they've written &c &c &c et al - to suppose that this work will be worth the effort (e.g., that an editor and orchestra and conductor are and will be putting effort into it.)
(By the way, the Weigl 1st symphony has been broadcast, and we have an upload of it - erm - somewhere. Or had. A search for it may turn it up?...)
Most of the above - though not the bit about the Weigl symphony no.1 - is my opinion and of course does not carry enforceable weight ... apologies for a ramble.
Sgambati 2 will come out on Naxos - Rome SO/La Vecchia.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 03 December 2014, 23:09
Do they fit our criteria?...
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html)
absolutely, Alan !! :D
I'm glad to hear it. Have you seen the scores? What more can you tell us?
I would love to hear one or more of Eduard Napravnik's four symphonies. If his Piano Concerto is anything to go by, they should be good.
I second Ilja. I will also add Joseph Marx's Autumn Symphony to the list.... a commercial recording atleast!
I've read Ferdinand Hiller's Symphony "Es muss doch Frühling werden", and I agree it's worth a good recording!!! :)
Dear Alan: good news about Sgambati 2nd.
Dear Erick: have you news about Mihalovich scores?
have only sent a - not even an email exactly ... - a message his way - which he may not have seen. May have to try something like his faculty email or somesuch... (I think he's faculty somewhere.)
Among all symphonies that deserves to be on CD, my vote goes for Haarklou's fourth because it is a very impressive work, especially the mighty opening. Adolf Reichel's second is another candidate. And of course the rest of Kalliwoda's symphonies from CPO.
After hearing the 4th Symphony of Edward Burlingame Hill, I'd like to hear numbers 1-3. Someone needs to explore the treasure chest of Romantic American symphonys. If you were to take the most recognizable (???) names, there probably isn't more than 25 or 30. T'would be a great project for Naxos.......I have a list for you.....haha......
Jerry
Hill's symphony no.1 in B-flat you can hear, with two other works, here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,1523.msg32570.html#msg32570), I believe- ok, they haven't been taken down... that's why I did ask about a comparison between his 1st and his 4th (in the relevant thread, but that's... well, ok, pretty relephant. oops.); I wasn't asking someone who had rare access to a score of the 1st to go into the basement and pull up the former, and judge from it... those are the two I know have been recorded in some form, privately or commercially :)
Here's hoping for Leo Sowerby's never performed 5th Symphony. I've heard it thanks to the Finale engraving I did and Garritan Personal Orchestra. It's a wonderful and very American piece.
What's the idiom?
Have been very taken with Cornelis Dopper's music. Would love to see a commercial recording of his Symphony no 1 as well as, of course, recordings of Symphonies 4 and 5.
The Sowerby is a very individual work, most particularly in the finale, which is simultaneously populist and completely irregular rhythmically. It has an open air feel and a pan-tonal harmonic treatment that nevertheless suggests a discernable tonal center. Progressions are never resolved via V - I. It doesn't sound like the other Sowerby symphonies.
Quote...a pan-tonal harmonic treatment that nevertheless suggests a discernable tonal center.
Just a quick reminder from our definition of 'romantic':
Overall, though, music of the romantic era still shares recognisable attributes: the restrained employment (if at all) of dissonance, a reliance on 19th century models of harmony and construction and the fundamental importance of melody.
Mere tonality, without strong elements of these other characteristics, does not qualify music as being romantic in style.(emphasis added)
We have highlighted this distinction on many occasions in the past, so we would once again plead for caution in posting concerning music which does not fit here. The mere fact that Sowerby's 5th Symphony dates from 1964 should also give one pause for thought...
As an aside: this CD of Sowerby's music suggests an attractive idiom, but certainly not a romantic one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003H3H9BA/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003H3H9BA/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk)
Ok not symphonies as such but ALL of the remaining unrecorded orchestral works by Liszt.
Not symphonies at all then!
Anyway: What's left to record, Jonathan? Anything interesting?
... actually, after several (and several, and several) times re-reading my used-bookstore copy of volume 2 of Walker's (er-hrm. yes, very re-readable :D) Liszt biography (volume 2, "The Weimar Years"), ... I'm interested too, and I'd extend the question myself (for another thread?) to include other still unrecorded obscure works of his. An IMSLP browse suggests that at the least there's a heck of a lot of still (!... despite Liszt completes in progress?) unpublished versions of other works, etc.? - doesn't speak to "recorded", that, though it could be related in some cases. Do the unrecorded works include any of the following orchestral versions-etc. -
*"Lyon" (piano version recorded a few times, not often, but not sure if the orchestral version's been?)
Going through the list @ IMSLP for instance, it -is- unclear whether "Ungarischer Marsch zur Krönungsfeier in Ofen-Pest am 8. Juni 1867" has been recorded in orchestral garb (S.118)...
or "Künstlerfestzug zur Schillerfeier 1859", or some others listed.
Hi All,
Here is my list of Liszt's orchestral works - anything that hasn't been recorded has no comment beside it (except where stated, below)!
Original Orchestral Works*:
S.1, Overture and Ballet music to Don Sanche, ou le Chateau d'Amour (recorded once)
S.95, Poème symphonique No. 1, Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne (Berg Symphonie) [first/second/third version] (1848–49, 1850, 1854)
S.96, Poème symphonique No. 2, Tasso, Lamento e Trionfo [first/second/third version] (1849, 1850–51, 1854)
S.97, Poème symphonique No. 3, Les Préludes (1848)
S.98, Poème symphonique No. 4, Orpheus (1853–54)
S.99, Poème symphonique No. 5, Prometheus [first/second version] (1850, 1855)
There is a recording of the early version of the 5th Symphonic Poem, Prometheus which is based on the orchestration by Joachim Raff; it was recorded by the Württemberg Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Roberto Paternostro. It is vastly different to the final version and may correspond to the 1850 version mentioned above!
S.100, Poème symphonique No. 6, Mazeppa [first/second version] (1851, b. 1854)
S.101, Poème symphonique No. 7, Festklänge [revisions added to 1863 pub] (1853)
S.102, Poème symphonique No. 8, Héroïde funèbre [first/second version] (1849–50, 1854)
S.103, Poème symphonique No. 9, Hungaria (1854)
S.104, Poème symphonique No. 10, Hamlet (1858)
S.105, Poème symphonique No. 11, Hunnenschlacht (1856–57)
S.106, Poème symphonique No. 12, Die Ideale (1857)
S.107, Poème symphonique No. 13, Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe (From the Cradle to the Grave) (1881–82)
S.108, Eine Faust-Symphonie [first/second version] (1854, 1861)
S.109, Eine Symphonie zu Dante's Divina Commedia (1855–56)
S.110, Deux épisodes d'apres le Faust de Lenau [2 pieces] (1859–61)
S.111, Zweite Mephisto Waltz (1881)
S.112, Trois Odes Funèbres [3 pieces] (1860–66) (recorded once) – original version lacks chorus
S.113, Salve Polonia (1863) (recorded once)
S.114, Künstlerfestzug zur Schillerfeier (1857) (recorded once)
S.115, Festmarsch zur Goethejubiläumsfeier [first/second version] (1849, 1857)
S.116, Festmarsch nach Motiven von E.H.z.S.-C.-G. (1857)
S.117, Rákóczy March (1865) (recorded once)
S.118, Ungarischer Marsch zur Krönungsfeier in Ofen-Pest (am 8 Juni 1867) (1870)
S.119, Ungarischer Sturmmarsch (1875) (recorded twice, possibly?)
S.150, Impromptu Brilliant sur des themes du Rossini et Spontini – sketches exist, don't know how complete these are
* = The works numbered S95 – 110 have all been recorded many times but only in their final versions (apart from the Faust Symphony)
There are also large orchestral sections in: The Legend of Saint Elizabeth (S2), Christus (S3) and the Hungarian Coronation Mass (S.11, see also S362, below) and may be some orchestral sections in sketches held in Weimar for an opera after Byron's Sarandanapale (S687).
S.347, Recitation with orchestra, Vor hundred Jahren (after F.Halm) (unpublished)
S.390, Revolutionary Symphony – not sure what state the manuscript may be in, was cannibalised for Heroide Funebre and various other later works.
Transcriptions:
Bülow - S.351 Mazurka Fantasie, Op. 13 (1865)
Cornelius - S.352 Second Overture to The Barber of Baghdad [completed from Cornelius's sketches] (1877)
Egressy and Erkel - S.353 Szózat und Hymnus (1873) (has been recorded by Arpad Joo)
Liszt –
S.354 Deux légendes (1863) (recorded at least twice)
S.355 Vexilla regis prodeunt (1864)
S.356 Festvorspiel (1857)
S.357 Huldigungsmarsch [first & second versions] (1853, 1857)
S.358 Vom Fels zum Meer. Deutscher Siegesmarsch (1860)
S.359 6 Rapsodies hongroises (Hungarian Rhapsodies) (recorded several times)
S.360, A la chapelle Sixtine (Liszt, Allegri & Mozart) [orchestral arrangement of S461, based on Mozart's Ave verum corpus and Allegri's Misere] (1862) (recorded twice at least)
S.361 Pio IX. Der Papsthymnus (ca. 1863)
S.362 Benedictus and Offertorium from the Hungarian Coronation Mass [from S11] (1875)
Schubert - S.363 4 Marches [from Opp. 40, 54, 121] (1859–60) (possibly the Hungarian March has been recorded)
Zarembski - S.364, Danses galiciennes (1881) (score of all 3 only rediscovered in 1997)
This was written by me in 2011 as I was interested to know how much was still left...it may now be slightly out of date!
Hope this helps..
Thank you Jonathan. Perhaps I can clarify the question of the "first version" of the symphonic poem Prometheus?
This work originated as the Overture to a choral work by Liszt titled "Prometheus Unbound: Dramatic Scenes by J.G. von Herder". That had its only performance in August 1850 and consisted of the Overture, eight choruses and several melodramas. These were interspersed by spoken extracts from Herder's text, and the whole work lasted around two hours; the musical elements accounted for just over half of that. Raff, who had just joined Liszt as his amanuensis, assembled the work from many unlinked sketches and partly completed short scores which Liszt had made for it. The orchestration of the whole work is Raff's, as are some structural elements, but it would be misleading to think that Liszt simply left Raff to get on with the job unsupervised. What was performed in 1850 was Raff's creation, with a large element of original Raff in the work, but based on Liszt's material. It was not only put together with Liszt's approval, but was credited as his composition at the premiere. The complete work was never published, although Raff's manuscript from which Liszt conducted the performance has survived in Weimar. I have a copy.
The 2002 Paternostro performance (see a review at raff.org here (http://www.raff.org/news/reviews/bad_urach/urach_1.htm)) is of the Prometheus Overture in Raff's original version, for which there is a modern score available from Edition Nordstern of Stuttgart. The same work has now been recorded commercially, and will very shortly be available on CD from Sterling (details here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,4068.0.html)).
In 1855 Liszt revised the Overture as a Symphonic Poem, re-orchestrating it and radically revising its structure. The choruses were also rewritten by him and published separately as Choruses from Herder's Prometheus Unbound. Some details of Raff's contribution remain in each, but these two works in their final form are effectively 100% Liszt.
But we really should get back to Symphonies....
Thank you, Jonathan - most interesting.
Büttner's first three symphonies? We have uploads of them, two of them (nos. 2 and 3) have been reissued in score by MPH Munich, and they seem to be good stuff...
The symphonies of Emilie Mayer and Johanna Senfter that I've heard have me wanting to hear more of them.
Planning on having a look at Georges-Martin Witkowski's D minor first symphony soonish by interloan; but I expect I'd be interested, even score unskimmed, in hearing that too. (Been doing a lot of score-interloaning etc. lately, sometimes to fill in the movement headers of works from our upload sections- and of course to read along... this has been fun :) )
It's hard to choose though. (Here's wishing: what I wish for for classical music recording in 2015 is that the classical music recording industry will, and will have reason to*, spread its wings, gain courage, record more music in better performances generally, and not just from under-served unsung (Romantic and otherwise) symphonic repertoire alone... not holding my breath here, of course.
* Watching "Jeopardy" lately- the rarity of categories about classical music, the poor performance of otherwise bright people in this one category, relatively speaking, when you get beyond the most obvious of questions ("What letter does Beethoven's last name start with?" "V?" "P?" "B!"...) ...- I am NOT sanguine...
Thanks Mark - most informative!
I would love to have a good modern recording of the symphony in B minor by Louis Thirion, a major piece of French late Romantic orchestral writing ... http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4297.0 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4297.0)
Or hear it for yourself ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOVUSI3FZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOVUSI3FZ8)
I would love to have a commercial recording of Cornelis Dopper Symphony no 1 Diana. I already have the download of this symphony which can still be found in UC's Archive section. I would love to have even more Dopper's symphonies nos 4 & 5 - neither work appears to have ever been recorded for commercial release.
I'd be interested in Thirion's first symphony (in E-flat) too (Op.12, published by Durand in 1912) though that one I haven't heard. (He also arranged reductions Ropartz' 2nd, 3rd, & 4th symphonies, btw. Publishers Baudoux (ca.1900), Joanin & Cie., pub.1906) and Boston Music Co. (©1914). (Worldcat lists other works of Ropartz listed by Thirion (e.g.: "Quasi Lento de la sonate pour violoncelle et piano. Transcription pour orgue par Louis Thirion", pub.ca. 1911) and a number of letters between the two; at a guess they knew each other at least on a business basis.)
(Still, yes, between the chamber works by Thirion uploaded to IMSLP and the 2nd symphony in B minor (Eschig, pub. in reduction in 1923; the full score is listed by Worldcat as still offered by the publisher, Salabert-Durand-Eschig for rent, or something. Likewise this first sym. ...)...)
Thirion shares a name with (and may be closely related to???) a once well-known sci-fi author, also - I forget the details...
Never heard of Thirion. What do we know about him?
Louis Thirion (1879-1966)
His Symphony #2 in b is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOVUSI3FZ8
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOVUSI3FZ8)
And that's the extent of my knowledge :-X :-X
J
From French Music, Culture, and National Identity, 1870-1939 (http://books.google.com/books?id=wqzhkmfo4PsC&pg=PA240), ed.Kelly, p.240, linked on IMSLP:
"The 'Concert des Lorrains' also featured works by a young composer who was very much involved in the musical life of the region: Louis Thirion. Born in Baccarat in 1879, he studied with Guy Ropartz and taught piano and organ at the Conservatoire in Nancy." (from 1898-1949, acc. to the link below.)
That's all I have, at this time. See also this link (http://data.bnf.fr/14996384/louis_thirion/) (from BNF, in French.)
Thanks very much indeed!
Late in 2014 Alberto mentioned the Jean Hunyade symphony by d'Indy. I just noticed it myself, since there's a manuscript copy listed by Worldcat in the French National Library, and I'm now curious about that work too... (and curious to see a followup report in whether any of these thread-wishes came true, besides...)
A dream I don't expect ever to come true: Sympathetic recordings of the five symphonies by Converse, especially 2 and 3.
look out for the symphonies of Raimund Schwedeler.He wrote 16 Symphonies.There is a cd recording of his 3 String quartets.Nice late romantic music. greetings Christoph
Interesting. Has any of his music been recorded? Welcome to UC!
Here's a website devoted to the composer: http://www.raimundschwedeler.chmoellmann.de/html/raimund_schwedeler.html (http://www.raimundschwedeler.chmoellmann.de/html/raimund_schwedeler.html)
A DECENT recording of Giovanni Pacini's Sinfonia Dante. The sole existing recording (Bongiovanni) is sub-par, to say the least.
QuoteI would like for someone to play or record the Op. 26 Symphonie Dramatique 'Les Amazones' (1884)
Very sadly, neither the full orchestral score, nor the parts of this work have survived - a great loss. So someone would have to re-orchestrate it from the vocal score. This would have to be a labour of love. I suspect her orchestration would have been highly colourful, judging by the Concertstuck for piano & orchestra. I wish I were competent enough to do it myself.
Ah. I seem to recall my renewed interest was sparked when I saw a listing of a reprint (Kemel, 2015) of what I now see is just the vocal score (on Worldcat) but I guess I didn't look closely enough at the listing... anyway, having seen the vocal score- agreed!