What an evening! A few weeks ago I picked up the Sterling CD of Buttner as part of a scoop in bargain basements in London (and what a scoop from which, financially, I am still recovering). I had never heard of Buttner, and the CD ended up in the bag simply because it was a Sterling disc (and because the notes told me he was a pupil of Draeseke). The disc seemed to have got put to one side, and I finally listened to it tonight - twice!
This music - Symphony 4 - is utterly magnificent. I have seen fleeting references to Buttner on the site, but nothing substantial. Heavens, this really is an unsung composer because, other than this Sterling disc, a lengthy trawl through the ether reveals no other recordings of his music. He also seems a quite invisible figure, for the same trawl demonstrates there is very little information about him save some very bare facts. Nothing whatsoever in Grove 5, or even New Grove.
Why this almost total neglect? There are, presumably, at least 3 other symphonies. And a string quartet. What else? Are the scores published? Is he ever performed? Can fellow members of the site enlighten me? Can anyone else help relieve the great urge to hear more Buttner?
Bo Hyttner, Sterling deserves our praise for rescuing many such unknown works from oblivion. The catalogue contains many gems such as Buttner, Cliffe, Noskowki, af Sillen, Zweers,etc , and I always look forward to the new releases. I already have 50 of his discs, and another unknown, August Halm's (1869-1929), Symphony in A major, although not as good as Buttner, is well worth hearing.
Buttner was a social democrat, and an opponent of the Nazi's, and in 1933, he was stripped of his teaching duties in Dresden, and his music was banned. He was a pupil of Draeseke. He died in 1943, having been relentlessly persecuted by the Nazi's, and his wife, virtually under house arrest, recieved a list of "forbiddens", included in which was a forbidden to buy icecream !
Marcus
Büttner was an excellent composer. His other symphonies would be well worth recording too.
Many thanks, Alan and Marcus, for reassuring me that I wasn't merely dreaming I had been hearing a really very splendid symphony. Listening to it again in the cold light of day confirms to me it is a work of very real stature. And with music of such craftsmanship and outstanding quality I really am astonished at how little information seems to be available on Buttner. As I said, not a single mention in Grove. Given (and I rely on the notes in the Sterling recording) that he was hailed early in his career as a significant composer in Germany and awarded with various honours - up to the mid-1930s - I suppose the Nazis did an especially thorough job in utterly squashing him, and his reputation has never again picked up. But that is indeed odd given the re-discovery of many others (Hartmann for example) who were forced to lie low during the period.
I am resolved to devote my holidays to standing on the pavement outside the offices of a variety of record companies with a large placard proclaiming 'More Buttner please'. On the basis of this symphony I say that it is a scandal that Buttner is not known.
Incidentally, Marcus, being forbidden ice-cream was not the end of it. Couple of years ago I read some of Viktor Klemperer's diaries. People of Jewish descent were, at least in Berlin, forbidden to keep a budgerigar. The contemptible Nazi mentality is sometimes quite out of our comprehension!
I'm quite eager to hear this symphony after reading your words, Peter. Unfortunately, the audio excerpt given by jpc last only a few seconds. Is the work reminescent of a symphony like the Cliffe? In the style of Noskowski's 1st? That would be something..! Late-Romantic?
Büttner is to be thought of as being in line of descent from the great German symphonists. The symphony on Sterling is considerably more dissonant than Cliffe or Noskowski. Think Strauss/Zemlinsky/Schmidt, although with less colour and more symphonic rigour than the first of these..
Thank you, Alan.
Yes, Alan is spot on right. Among the things I admired was less of the opulent self-indulgence of Strauss, greater symphonic rigour, a sense that the composer was very much in control of his material and knew just what he was doing, considerable feeling and passion, no dilly-dallying about and instead a wanting to get on with it, and lots of energy. I've now listened to the symphony 6 times in 3 days, and it gets better and better. Interesting that Alan cites Schmidt - he, I think, is a close neighbour. How fascinated I am by the thought of other orchestral works. And, cor blimey, Buttner also apparently wrote two operas. I wonder if ever......????
Apologies for a delayed reply to Peter1953. I've been out and about!
Best wishes to you - and thanks to Alan for getting there first.
Peter
Thanks, Peter. I've put the Büttner on my want-list which means I'll try to buy the CD within a few weeks. I'll let you know what I think of his symphony.
This evening I've listened again to Cliffe's 1st Symphony. There's a lot of music I'll hope to see recorded and released in the near future, but above all Cliffe's 2nd. I am so deeply impressed by Cliffe. I wonder if you have the same feeling about Büttner.
I tremendously enjoy both Reznicek and Wetz. I'm already salivating over the possibility that Buettner is something like a cross between them.
He's not as Brucknerian as Wetz and not as colourful as Reznicek. But he could be a better composer than either...
Hello Peter1953,
Bo Hyttner mentioned to me last year that the Cliffe 2nd Symphony was "in the pipeline".
it would be great to have him as a contributor to this forum. I mentioned it to him recently, so here's hoping.
Marcus.
Re. Cliffe 2: it'll be rather a long pipeline as there's a lot of work to do on the music first...
The German Wikipedia has a brief article (in German of course) on the symphony here - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/4._Sinfonie_(Büttner) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/4._Sinfonie_(B%C3%BCttner))
Tobias Bröker, German music collector and publisher, will publish the scores of some of Paul Büttner's most important works online. The first one has been released yet:
-Das Grab im Busento, a ballad for men's choir and orchestra.
The other pieces will follow:
-Symphony No. 4 (first publication of the original score - the score issued by Peters is an arrangement in reduced orchestration)
-Anka, opera
-Waldesrauschen for men's choir and orchestra
-2 four-part canons on texts by Goethe
https://www.tobias-broeker.de/newpageb5193fd1
I have the score of symphony no.3 in D-flat major (finale in, and ends in, C# minor) on my table borrowed from U. Houston. (edited)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 21 March 2024, 03:08I have the score of symphony no.3 in D-flat major (finale in, and ends in, in C# minor) on my table borrowed from U. Houston.
The third one is really amusing. It borrows from Schoenberg's Pelleas a clarinet passage not long into Mov I, and the beginning of Mov II is entirely from Busoni's PC.
Grand larceny or respectful borrowing?
Other people in the Dresden music scene of the 1920s and 1930s were certainly guilty of the former...
But seriously, I think this may be a case of unconscious appropriation, where after humming a tune for a while you start thinking you created it yourself - quite a well-documented psychological phenomenon (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16076672/). Also, it's just that single melodic line, the rest of the movement sounds nothing like Busoni.
Edit: I just checked, and Busoni's concerto was performed in Dresden in July of 1909; so it's quite possible that Büttner picked up the melody then and there.
Back when I was attempting to compose, I remember hearing one of Beethoven's cello works in concert, had never heard it before, rondo tune stuck. I soon forgot who wrote it and some years later (just) started writing the opening of a piano quintet on a very similar theme, thinking it mine (after checking it wasn't by the composers who it brought to mind. Then I heard the Beethoven on the radio and that was that. So yep.
Raff >>> Tchaikovsky?
???
If that's a response to that article, none of us wrote it...
I imagine Alan is referencing Tchaikovsky's presumably unconscious (but remarkably direct) copying of a theme from the slow movement of Raff's 10th Symphony in that of his own 5th Symphony a few years later.
Quote from: eschiss1 on Saturday 23 March 2024, 02:42Back when I was attempting to compose, I remember hearing one of Beethoven's cello works in concert, had never heard it before, rondo tune stuck. I soon forgot who wrote it and some years later (just) started writing the opening of a piano quintet on a very similar theme, thinking it mine (after checking it wasn't by the composers who it brought to mind. Then I heard the Beethoven on the radio and that was that. So yep.
I've experienced that, too. I unconsciously took the opening phrase of Halm's Symphony, slightly adjusted it, and used it as the theme in a piano sonatina. Fortunately not too long after that I realized where I got that tune from.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Saturday 23 March 2024, 15:04I imagine Alan is referencing Tchaikovsky's presumably unconscious (but remarkably direct) copying of a theme from the slow movement of Raff's 10th Symphony in that of his own 5th Symphony a few years later.
Indeed. Also Raff 3/iv and Tchaikovsky 6/iii. Very obvious. Happens all the time in music, e.g. Schubert 9/iv and Beethoven 9/iv. Sometimes it's unconscious, sometimes it's deliberate homage, sometimes it's grand larceny! No idea about Büttner 3's borrowings - perhaps someone can pick out the passages involved from this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSejYbP-y3E
ntm Brahms 4/ii's opening bar overheard various places throughout Stanford symphony 3/iii...
Re Buttner 3, as the work is thoroughly PD, I could phone-photo the "offending" pages and upload scans to an account if I figure out which to do.
(which is why, apologies to hangmen everywhere, it's not the idea, it's the execution. There's only so many ideas in music, literature, art... but many ways to see them through.)
(apologies for banality and horrible punmanship.)