Apologies for the cumbersome title! Here are a few examples that come to mind:
Bruch: Nordland Suite; Swedish Dances
Marx: Nordland-Rhapsodie (I am DYING to hear this one!)
Sowerby: From the Northland-Impressions of Lake Superior Country (Sowerby lived in the Midwest)
Hanson: Symphony no. 1 Nordic
Francois Casadesus: Symphonie Scandinave
Any other examples?
Lists, list. lists! Bah, humbug! >:(
Let's have some descriptive comments alongside the suggestions, please. Oh, and happy Christmas :)!!
Henry Hadley's 4th Symphony "North, East, South, West": it's first movement is North, and it is full of whipping, whirling winds, declamatory brass that surround occasional moments of for boding quiet.
I don't know it...so I can't comment on it...so I'm reluctant to mention it in case I'm merely adding to a list...but it is Christmas so perhaps I'll be shown a little mercy...Cowen's "Scandinavian" Symphony.
Edouard Lalo Fantasie Norvegienne
What have all these pieces got to do with the North - apart from their titles?
I think we must include F H Cowen's Scandinavian Symphony here. Its certainly the best piece of music by him I've heard so far.
Quote from: LateRomantic75 on Tuesday 24 December 2013, 21:32
Apologies for the cumbersome title! Here are a few examples that come to mind:
Bruch: Nordland Suite; Swedish Dances
Marx: Nordland-Rhapsodie (I am DYING to hear this one!)
Sowerby: From the Northland-Impressions of Lake Superior Country (Sowerby lived in the Midwest)
Hanson: Symphony no. 1 Nordic
Francois Casadesus: Symphonie Scandinave
Any other examples?
Nice list! I especially love the Hanson. 8)
If it qualifies (North is pretty broad), other composers who comes to mind are Bax with his "Winter Legends" and Melartin's "Cherry Blossoms of Japan" from his 24 Preludes.
Antarctica is in the south. Perhaps we could include Elgar's "In the South"? ;D
And the symphony is Sinfonia Antartica less the c.
Quote from: erato on Wednesday 25 December 2013, 19:01
Antarctica is in the south. Perhaps we could include Elgar's "In the South"? ;D
And the symphnony is Sinfonia Antartica less the c.
Yikes (my bad). It's corrected.
Thanks.
:)
Coleridge-Taylor and Walter Niemann (the latter rather further into the early- to mid-20th century) were among composers who wrote Japanese suites, though I am aware that again, these are not "about" the North.
On that subject there's always Dorn's Nibelung opera, which certainly qualifies as much as Wagner's does as an opera about a Nordic legend, yes? (Another that comes to mind, Weir's opera about Harald Hardrada (iirc), is again I admit -far- too late, while Atterberg's opera on the same interesting historical subject is- by a Scandinavian composer- darn, caught by two ends... :D Still, there must be something that qualifies that doesn't get caught in either end of that trap... hrm... ponder... )
Lalo composed a Fantasie Norvegienne for violin and orchestra and a Rapsodie Norvegienne for Orchestra (the latter recorded even by Ansernet). If I remeber well (I couldn't check now) the two works (sharing thematic material) are built on allegedly Norwegian themes.
Different would be the case of the opera "Cristina, regina di Svezia " by Jacopo Foroni (recently produced -am I wright?- in Wexford).
I don't know if the plot takes place in Sweden or in Italy (maybe in both) and Foroni was like an adopted Swedish.
As I posted before, it'd be good to know what all these pieces have actually got to do with the North - apart from their titles...
Julius Röntgen visited his good friend Edvard Grieg several times in Norway. Röntgen was impressed by the overwhelming beauty of the Norwegian landscape and enjoyed the many folk tunes of the Norwegians.
He composed Variationen über eine norwegische Volksweise and a Ballade über eine norwegische Volksmelodie, both for orchestra. Lovely is Röntgen's Suite 'Aus Jotunheim', dedicated to Edvard and Nina Grieg on the occasion of their 25th wedding anniversary in 1892, which is a musical translation of the local colour of Jotunheim, home of the giants, and today a national parc.
as to the Foroni, it's based on an episode in the life of Queen Christina Alexandra of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina,_Queen_of_Sweden) (1626-89), a very important and interesting person (who fictionally plays a part in a novel I was reading, besides, and does so with what I gather is predictable character ;) )
Something doesn't have to be about ice floes, polar bears and (now) extinct great auks (Penguin Island) to be about the North, after all... though since I'm not from there I'm not the best judge of such things either.
Hanson was Swedish.
Tom
His parents were Swedish immigrants, but Hanson was born on US soil. Therefore, I think he is worthy of inclusion here.
Thanks for the interesting responses everyone!
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 26 December 2013, 14:14
Something doesn't have to be about ice floes, polar bears and (now) extinct great auks (Penguin Island) to be about the North, after all
True, but the thrust of the thread is surely the fascination with northern lands and their music on the part of composers from elsewhere. Otherwise any old connection would do - e.g. are we to discuss every musical setting of Hamlet just because he's Prince of Denmark?
Point taken breezily :D
I always think of Sinfonia Antarctica as the finest example of this kind of music. I have both the film soundtrack and the symphony.
Tom
Still, I think the penguins are now properly and well squawkily annoyed ("_we_ know the difference between the Arctic and the Antarctic!"...)
As someone who grew up among hushed hillsides of redwoods, please forgive my asking: Do the Hebrides qualify as emblems of North? I've always wondered if perhaps the flavor of that Mendelssohn overture was the beginning of northern diction in music. That opening motive speaks of things ancient, viewed in mild northern light. Ossian and all that.
Quote from: chill319 on Friday 27 December 2013, 23:50
Do the Hebrides qualify as emblems of North?
Rather depends on where you live really. To me, the Hebrides is the North, but so is the Newport Pagnell Service Station, which seems to have been ignored by composers, Scandinavian or not.
When I visited Fingal's Cave in what was little more than a bath tub with a lawn mower engine, drowning was more on my mind than Mendelssohn ,and if I recall, his experience was not a great deal better. I am not convinced that music can paint pictures of locations even if it is the composers intention to do so.
Thal
For someone living in South Africa, virtually everywhere is north.
Otherwise ...
If Scotland counts, there are numerous Rhapsodies Ecossaise, etc. Scandinavia is less well-served apart from Scandinavian composers and the aforementioned Lalo. For the Arctic proper you have to look to 20th composers.
We still need some sort of exploration of what it is that constitutes "northernness" (for want of a better word) in music written by composers from elsewhere. The use or imitation of certain folk material? The copying of the idiom of certain composers from northern climes?
Anyone got any ideas?
I think works that use or imitate the folk material of Scandinavian countries or try to emulate that distinct "Nordic sound" (you know what I mean) are worthy of inclusion here. There are works like Moeran's Symphony in G minor, while not having explicit Nordic connections, are influenced by Nordic composers (in Moeran's case, Sibelius) and, therefore, "sound" Nordic to some degree. Or perhaps I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here?
I think the influence of Sibelius is seminal here - although Gade's 1st Symphony has always been said to have a certain "Nordic cut" to its themes (no doubt an expert musicologist could explain this in concrete terms). So, I'd say "northernness" (i.e. something distinctly Scandinavian) in music starts in earnest with Sibelius. Discuss...
I would say above the 60th parallel which would include Iceland, Scandinavia, and also St. Petersburg so some of the Russian works could be included. Does that make any sense?
Tom
Berwald's remarkably original music set the stage for developing the "Nordic" sound with its harmonic novelties and unique "breeziness" in the orchestration. We mustn't forget Grieg either, who developed his style largely independent of his European models.
Quote from: sdtom on Saturday 28 December 2013, 18:10
I would say above the 60th parallel which would include Iceland, Scandinavia, and also St. Petersburg so some of the Russian works could be included. Does that make any sense?
Tom
Not entirely - at least not in relation to this particular thread. The clue's surely in the title - which implies a discussion of
Scandinavian-style music written by non-Scandinavians. So let's leave out everything beyond the bounds of Scandinavia, which Wikipedia defines as follows:
<<Scandinavia is a historical and cultural-linguistic region in Northern Europe characterized by a common ethno-cultural Germanic heritage and related languages that includes the three kingdoms of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. Modern Norway and Sweden proper and also northern parts of Finland are situated on the Scandinavian Peninsula, whereas modern Denmark is situated on the Danish islands and Jutland. The term Scandinavia is usually used as a cultural term, but in English usage, it is occasionally confused with the purely geographical term Scandinavian Peninsula, which took its name from the cultural-linguistic concept. The name Scandinavia historically referred vaguely to Scania.
The terms Scandinavia and Scandinavian entered usage in the 18th century as terms for the three Scandinavian countries, their peoples and associated language and culture, being introduced by the early linguistic and cultural Scandinavist movement. Sometimes the term Scandinavia is also taken to include Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Finland, on account of their historical association with the Scandinavian countries. Such usage, however, may be considered inaccurate in the area itself, where the term Nordic countries instead refers to this broader group.>>
So, Russia's definitely out - as is Scotland. But I assume Iceland would be in...
Incidentally here's an interesting paper on Grieg and Sibelius: http://www.rmjs.co.uk/bham/31cc01.pdf (http://www.rmjs.co.uk/bham/31cc01.pdf)
BTW, I agree: Gade, Berwald and Grieg must come into the discussion before Sibelius (chronologically speaking). So who of the non-Scandinavians were decisively influenced by them? I'll kick off with Martucci (2nd Symphony - definite echoes of Sibelius). Beyond UC's remit there would, of course, be any number of British composers who composed under the shadow of the great Finn.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 28 December 2013, 09:39
We still need some sort of exploration of what it is that constitutes "northernness" (for want of a better word) in music written by composers from elsewhere. The use or imitation of certain folk material? The copying of the idiom of certain composers from northern climes?
Anyone got any ideas?
Why assume that
anything in music constitutes northernness? Many would say that the OP is based on the falsity that music is "about" anything other than itself. A composer may subtitle a symphony "The North" (has anyone mentioned Frederic Cowen yet?) but even if it throws in a few Norwegian folk tunes it is still basically "about" the manipulation of its own musical material.
The exception might be overtly programme music, or impressionistic tone pictures where the music is intended to express the mood of a particular place.
As to the definition of Scandinavia/the North: being a Dane myself, I am quite sure that, to the inhabitants of the region, Scandiniavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark, and the North/the Nordic countries then consists of these three countries plus Finland and Iceland. But it seems to me that this spirit of this topic is to include all five countries.
As to the influence of the Nordic composers mentioned: Gade was quite well known in Europe, but he turned his back on the Nordic style after a few early works like the "Ossian" overture and the first symphony, to adopt a more mainstream European idiom. Berwald was little known outside his native country, as were composers like J. P. E. Hartmann, who aimed at a consciously Northern style. So I think the best bet for an influential Nordic composer before Sibelius is Grieg. His friend Julius Röntgen has already been mentioned. I can think of a few others:
Some of Sigfrid Karg-Elert's piano music is certainly inspired by Grieg. The suite "Aus dem Norden" almost sounds like an unknown work by the Norwegian himself. And Delius, who was also a friend of Grieg, wrote a number of works inspired by the North, e.g. Paa Vidderne and Over the Hills and Far Away.
Alan,
Where would you put Glazunov's "Finnish Fantasy." I would think that it would fit. A non Scandinavian composer who wrote about the north.
Tom
I think Glazunov's Finnish Fantasy could definitely fit here, as well as his Finnish Sketches!
Also, thanks to regriba for his informative and illuminating post :)
Lest there be any further confusion about what this thread entails, I will define more clearly what I would like to be discussed in this thread:
Works relating to Icelandic, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, or Finnish subjects (whether they be folk music, literature, or nature) written by composers of nationalities other than the five listed above
Hope that helps ;D
Quote from: regriba on Sunday 29 December 2013, 15:04
Some of Sigfrid Karg-Elert's piano music is certainly inspired by Grieg. The suite "Aus dem Norden" almost sounds like an unknown work by the Norwegian himself.
I am glad you mentioned Karg-Elert's "Aus dem Norden". I am touched by these pieces despite - or is it because of - the fact that they are so strongly influenced by Grieg.
The influence of Grieg on later generations of composers shouldn't be underestimated. (Stephen Hough for example suggested a Grieg influence in Carl Frühlings fine Clarinet Trio.)
I am not much of an expert in Karg-Elert and would be very interested to know if there are other pieces which are similarly indebted to Grieg.
But perhaps this requests deflects the subject of this thread too much?
Halvorsen's orchestral works (recorded by Chandos and Simax) show the influence of Grieg, as well as Tchaikovsky in lighter mode. They are highly enjoyable, but without Grieg's inspired melodic talent.
Quote from: britishcomposer on Sunday 29 December 2013, 18:55
I am not much of an expert in Karg-Elert and would be very interested to know if there are other pieces which are similarly indebted to Grieg.
But perhaps this requests deflects the subject of this thread too much?
I should have been more specific. What I wanted to say is: are there other pieces
by Karg-Elert which are similarly indebted to Grieg! ;)
Oh, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding! :-[ From what I've read, I gather Karg-Elert's main influences were Reger, Scriabin, and Impressionism. His style has often been described as "Art Noveau" and he apparently thought of himself as an outsider. I've read somewhere that he composed orchestral works, but only his chamber and piano/organ/harmonium works have been recorded. I'd look into those CPO recordings, but many of them are OOP and are selling at high prices.
I digress!
Quote from: Gauk on Sunday 29 December 2013, 08:40
Why assume that anything in music constitutes northernness? Many would say that the OP is based on the falsity that music is "about" anything other than itself.
Well, as soon as influences from national folk idioms are employed, the music in question clearly acquires an external referent - in other words, it's about more than itself - or at least, it refers to something outside itself or absorbs within itself something external. For example, Sibelius' 2nd Symphony may be pure music (in that it has no evident programme), but its idiom clearly has writers referring beyond the music
qua music in order to come to grips with its essential character, e.g:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Programme_Notes/sibelius_sym2.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/Programme_Notes/sibelius_sym2.htm)
Quote from: LateRomantic75 on Sunday 29 December 2013, 19:09
Halvorsen's orchestral works (recorded by Chandos and Simax) show the influence of Grieg, as well as Tchaikovsky in lighter mode. They are highly enjoyable, but without Grieg's inspired melodic talent.
He's Norwegian, so he doesn't count.
I was just was going off on a tangent... ::)
That was the problem!
Since when is going off on a tangent a federal offense?
It's not a federal offence, but we do like to keep threads on topic. In this case it would have mitigated the 'offence' if it had been made clear that this was a brief digression rather than an inadvertent error. A formula such as 'to digress for a moment...' would have been sufficient.
I was merely jesting about it being a federal offense, Alan. ;) Now back to topic.....
Er, I think I sort of realised that. Also zur Sache!
The Flying Dutchman. As is well known, Wagner at a late stage relocated the action from Scotland to Norway. (Scotland, for some reason, seems not to count as the North in this thread, otherwise one might cite the Hebrides Overture).
One proposed explanation for Wagner's change of setting is that he wanted to avoid the social structure of castles and lairds that is conventionally associated with Scotland (Der Vampyr, La Dame Blanche). But I think another possibility is that he simply wanted to give more emphasis to the North-South polarity--and, consequently, to the global thrust of the expansionism that the Dutchman embodies. He has been sailing the southern seas, the steersman sings of the south wind, and the north is present in the very etymology of Norway.
I've recently come across another example that would fit this thread: Pancho Vladigerov's Scandinavian Suite Traumspiel, drawn from incidental music he wrote for Strindberg's play of the same name. It's a stunning work, with influences as varied as Impressionism, Wagner, and Swedish folk music. It's available on CPO: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NOIWOY? (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NOIWOY?cache=b1f885a9f2a99f76751bd918a97a9750&pi=SY200_QL40#ref=mp_s_a_1_1&qid=1391954175&sr=8-1)
I have to take another look at Cowen's opera THORGRIM, which is set in Iceland. I think nothing exists of it now beyond a piano-vocal score, of which we have a copy at Eastman. There's a very funny description of Joseph Bennett's libretto in the Athlone "The Romantic Era"; in comparing Thorgrim to Wagner's Siegfried, Thorgrim is described as "an unprincipled thug".
Looking back at the quote: "Why assume that anything in music constitutes northernness?...A composer may subtitle a symphony "The North" (has anyone mentioned Frederic Cowen yet?) but even if it throws in a few Norwegian folk tunes it is still basically "about" the manipulation of its own musical material. The exception might be overtly programme music, or impressionistic tone pictures where the music is intended to express the mood of a particular place."
The Cowen 'Scandinavian' Symphony certainly has that 'northernness'. While it is not a programme symphony as such, Cowen's writings in a letter clearly indicate that he had 'scenes'/'images'/'unlying stories' for some of the movements. Also some of the material could well have been extracted from or inspired by Norwegian folk music, which he heard whilst touring as accompanist to Trebelli on several occasions in the late 1870s in Scandinavia. What makes it sound 'Scandinavian' or 'Northern' though, that is more difficult to answer...
Curiously, the soundworld of some of Cowen's music predates, but is quite close to, what we later hear in Sibelius...sustained brass especially and often the use of the darker colours of the orchestral palette...
Quote from: pcc on Sunday 09 February 2014, 18:46
I have to take another look at Cowen's opera THORGRIM, which is set in Iceland. I think nothing exists of it now beyond a piano-vocal score, of which we have a copy at Eastman. There's a very funny description of Joseph Bennett's libretto in the Athlone "The Romantic Era"; in comparing Thorgrim to Wagner's Siegfried, Thorgrim is described as "an unprincipled thug".
There is little doubt that 'Thorgrim' was meant to be Cowen's 'Siegfried' or 'Lohengrin'. With his credentials for his 'Scandinavian' Symphony, he was an obvious choice to set this drama. Unfortunately, neither Joseph Bennett (the librettist), nor Cowen, had the skills to bring such an undertaking to a satisfying fruition. What we have does only survive in the piano-vocal score, which is a shame, because I don't doubt that the orchestration would have been imaginative and well worth a look through...
I see no mention of Europe in the thread title.
There must be a boatload of fine music written about the bleak north from Canada..
perhaps most of it is too recent
Offhand I can think of only a few (flourished-in-the-)19th-century Canadian composers- Salomon Mazurette (moderately prolific American/Canadian composer of some 300? works (not many digitized or even maybe survive?...) for piano, solo voice and chorus) is actually the only one who comes to my mind- and for others I really need to check IMSLP and Wikipedia for a bit of assistance :) - Arthur Clappé (author and composer), Hugh A. Clarke, Charles A. Harriss, Stephen Humbert, Calixa Lavallée (composer, I think, of "O Canada"; also of a comic opera called The Widow (La veuve)... ok, him I did remember though not by _name_, I was in fact trying to look his name up... :) ) - maybe Henry Strauss (about whom IMSLP has little biographical or date information, but it seems he was probably Canadian)... I don't see anything specific by any of them at the moment with a Nordic theme, but - one keeps looking...