Dear members,
I uploaded a recent broadcast performance of Hermann Grädener's Piano Concerto for you.
Thanks to the indefatigable Oliver Triendl! :)
Thank you!
For those interested, the movement titles and timings are (source (https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4446.30)):
Hermann Grädener, Piano Concerto in D-minor, Op. 20 (1879)
1. Allegro moderato (0:00 - 18:53)
2. Adagio ma non troppo (1853: - 24:59)
3. Finale: Rondo (24:59 - 33:14).
A fairly typical concerto for its time, but certainly not old-fashioned; it reminded me of the (slightly younger) Urspruch concerto in some ways, although Grädener is arguably a bit more subdued. Rather lopsided in its first movement-heaviness, again like many of its era, but my first impression was very positive. Grädener obviously knows how to treat a tune, and his treatment of the material is elegant and sometimes even surprising. Thanks for alerting us to this work, Britishcomposer!
Sounds great! And now we also have a second recording of Kralik's Symphony!
I can just see a recording coupling Carl Grädener's and Hermann Grädener's piano concertos in A minor and D minor, which have one thing besides the obvious in common...
Quote from: tuatara442442 on Monday 09 February 2026, 00:23Sounds great! And now we also have a second recording of Kralik's Symphony!
Can you tell us where that might be found?
I think it's this one:
Quote from: tuatara442442 on Monday 09 February 2026, 00:22Here is a new broadcast recording of the symphony, from the same concert that made the modern-day premiere of H. Graedener's Piano Concerto:
https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/brahms-kraliks-sinfonie-graedeners-klavierkonzert-mit-nordd-ph-bosch-triendl-100.html
Looking forward to a good listen. Many tks for the upload
Richard
Thanks, I apparently got greedy rather too quickly.
For encores, Triendl played two of his father, Carl Graedener's miniatures, Kleine Impromptus No. 2 Kleine Elegie & No. 4 Heimliche Liebe. This can be heard in the full broadcast.
Also, it is interesting to note that his Sonata for 2 Pianos (https://youtu.be/HbIjJ2KW_Ks?si=W2ecZkdxQub0R9-q) from the same period (and in the same key) shares the same main motif in the finale with that of the PC's.
I found Grädener's concerto surprisingly univolving, and that's certainly not down to the quality of the performance, which seems excellent. Everything that Ilja says about the quality of the material and Grädener's treatment of it is spot on, and yet I'm left with this feeling of detachment. Maybe I'm echoing, but in a less positive way, his judgement that it's a "fairly typical concerto for it's time". It's well made, I'm pleased we have it, it's a pleasant listen, but nothing special.
After a few listens, I'm inclined to agree with regard to the second and third movement, which to me don't come close to matching the inspiration of the first. That opening movement is something I adore, though, alternating grand tunes with an almost fragile sensitivity.
I'll certainly persevere. Given the quality of the material and Grädener's inventiveness, it certainly should be better than my first impression.
From what I can tell contemporary reviews were not very positive.
After several listens I understand what Ilja sees in the opening movement, the material is memorable and well contrasted, and Grädener's invention never let's him down, but (you knew there was a "but" coming) it's also very episodic and, at 19 minutes, just way too long for the Concerto as a whole. He clearly had yet to learn that he didn't have to use every single idea he came up with, even if they were all, individually, good ones. Perhaps it would have been more successful as a stand alone, single-movement, Konzertstück?
I think that's how I'm going to play it in future, I think. The finale's not the worst, but the Adagio's utterly forgettable.
The first-movement-heavyness appears to have been anything but uncommon at the time; there are numerous concertos where the it surpasses the length of the other two movements by some margin: Tchaikovsky No. 1 of course (1875), Sgambati (1880), Urspruch and Scharwenka #2 (1881) and Vogrich (1888) to name a few.
... you mean the other two movements individually, yes? Because the Tchaik 1's first movement is often around the length of the other two movements combined, but not substantially greater than that. Likewise Martucci concerto 2. Maybe Jaëll's 2nd concerto?
It is very common for 19th century concerti to have a very long first movement and, in comparison, very short latter movements, especially the Classically-formed kind with a "full-length" opening tutti.
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 12 February 2026, 22:42... you mean the other two movements individually, yes? Because the Tchaik 1's first movement is often around the length of the other two movements combined, but not substantially greater than that. Likewise Martucci concerto 2. Maybe Jaëll's 2nd concerto?
That may be true for some older recordings, most notably the classic Richter/Karajan (22/11/11 minutes), but modern Tchaikovsky PC1s typically seem to have the first movement at 20-24 minutes, and the other two combined around 14-16 minutes. And both Cliburn/Kondrashin and the much newer Hough/Vänskä (in the Hyperion RPC series) have it at 20/6/7. That's a pretty substantial gap.
Regarding the 1st mnt.yes...
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Thursday 12 February 2026, 10:11Perhaps it would have been more successful as a stand alone, single-movement, Konzertstück?
especially since, as you say Ilja, the 2nd mnt. is quite forgettable and the 3rd so-so. That said, I really enjoyed the journey, and I agree that it showcases some impressive musical creativity, albeit rather out of control. It sounds like an excellent performance, too. So. I'll be back for more.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9874886--mathilde-kralik-von-meyrswalden-hermann-gradener
The Gradener PC and Kralik Symphony in this broadcast will be published by Haenssler on August 21st.
I was disappointed in his violin concertos, but,so far,I haven't found an active link to his piano concerto,to which I would prefer to listen before blind-purchasing.
It seems that - for understandable reasons - the radio broadcast has been taken offline. The Presto page (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9874886--mathilde-kralik-von-meyrswalden-hermann-gradener) has some soundbites, though.
Thanks!
Have to say, the soundbites don't seem bad to me. I can't say that I am attracted to the coupling, but ,on balance, I think I will order.
If I were you, and knowing your preferences, I'd wait until the whole thing is on YouTube and try it out there. The Kralik is not in the same league as the earlier Spinnato recording in my view (mainly due to the soprano, but not exclusively), and opinion on the Grädener concerto is quite divided.
That's good advice, Ilja, especially as I don't want the accompanying symphony. But the concerto is taking an eternity to appear....
I still can't find it on YouTube. A pity that the radio broadcast was so quickly deleted.
The playlist is on YouTube here (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nEa6EgIukNcq_5ug4wQP0w_rndb6WsK6g&playnext=1&index=1), Terry.
Thanks,Mark!
I thought we might be in for a noblimente wallow at the outset,with the orchestra,not the piano,running away with the "big tune". The concerto as a whole didn't quite live up to my high expectations after that, but I thought it cohered,and was rather fun.
I won't rush to buy it,but it will be in my batch of Christmas presents to myself.