Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet Overture exists in three versions. The third and final version (from 1880) is the most famous, and there are many recordings of it. There are also quite a few recordings of the original verion (premiered in 1870). But does anyone know if there are any recordings of the second version (premiered in 1872)?
This could be developed into a broader theme - are there alternative versions of great pieces which can stand as good works in their own right?
I didn't even know there WAS a 'version two'. Are you sure about this? I feel sure someone would have recorded it if it existed.
IMP MCD-55 (Dalia Atlas, Pilha. Orch.London) states that it contains the "first version". The not very clear booklet says Tchajcovskj revised the first version one year after the completion (of the first version) and finally released the final version in1880.
I try to attempt a sketchy answer to the "BROADER THEME" : "are there alternative version of GREAT pieces which can stand as good works in their own right"?.
Obviously I have to omit:
-classical and pre-classical
-operatic works
-Bruckner (worthy one book)
-Liszt (worthy one very long book)
The first cases coming to my mind are:
-Mendelssohn Scottish Sym.
Italian Sym.
The Hebrides overture
-Schumann Fourth Symphony
Second piano Sonata
Third piano Sonata
-Tchajcovskj Second Symphony
-Prokofiev Seventh Symphony
-Beethoven String Quartet op. 130
-Mahler First Symphony
Totenfeier as alternative to mvt. 1 of Second Symphony
Sixth Symphony (here the alternatives are lesser)
-Britten Piano Concerto
-Sibelius Fifth Symphony
En Saga
Violin Concerto
-Rachmaninov Third Piano Concerto
Fourth Piano Concerto
Second Piano Sonata
In some cases the improvements don't seem to me evident (and if I remember well in the Mendelssohn cases it is the first version to be performed; but I would rate of even value the versions).
In the Sibelius cases the improvements of second versions appear to me considerable, but anyway the first versions could stand as good in their own right.
The theme is too broad and my tentative answer is just a sampler. I leave the topic to somebody else.
Quote from: alberto on Monday 11 April 2011, 14:29
I try to attempt a sketchy answer to the "BROADER THEME" : "are there alternative version of GREAT pieces which can stand as good works in their own right"?.
Obviously I have to omit:
-classical and pre-classical
-operatic works
-Bruckner (worthy one book)
-Liszt (worthy one very long book)
The first cases coming to my mind are:
-Mendelssohn Scottish Sym.
Italian Sym.
The Hebrides overture
-Schumann Fourth Symphony
Second piano Sonata
Third piano Sonata
-Tchajcovskj Second Symphony
-Prokofiev Seventh Symphony
-Beethoven String Quartet op. 130
-Mahler First Symphony
Totenfeier as alternative to mvt. 1 of Second Symphony
Sixth Symphony (here the alternatives are lesser)
-Britten Piano Concerto
-Sibelius Fifth Symphony
En Saga
Violin Concerto
-Rachmaninov Third Piano Concerto
Fourth Piano Concerto
Second Piano Sonata
In some cases the improvements don't seem to me evident (and if I remember well in the Mendelssohn cases it is the first version to be performed; but I would rate of even value the versions).
In the Sibelius cases the improvements of second versions appear to me considerable, but anyway the first versions could stand as good in their own right.
The theme is too broad and my tentative answer is just a sampler. I leave the topic to somebody else.
I think some of the above might be a little confused.
Mendelssohn - Italian Symphony. The version played today is the ORIGINAL version. Mendelssohn made a revision, but somehow it never caught on. The only recording I know of the revised version is that conducted by John Eliot Gardiner.
Prokofiev - Symphony No 7. There is only one version of this symphony (Prokofiev died soon after its completion), although he DID provide an 'alternative ending' - an upbeat conclusion to satisfy Stalin's cronies. The original, subdued ending is by far the better of the two and is the one most commonly played. Prokofiev left two versions of the Fourth Symphony. The original version of 1930, opus 47 takes themes from his ballet
The Prodigal Son. He revised and extended the symphony in 1947. It landed-up so different from the original that he gave it its own opus number (112) and allowed both versions to co-exist. A similar exercise befell the Cello Concerto Op 58, which was substantially revised and expanded as the
Sinfonia Concertante Op 125. There are 'alternative endings' also for Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra and Stravinsky's
Petrushka.
Beethoven - String Quartet Op 130. Although Beethoven wrote an alternative finale for the quartet in 1826 to replace the
Grosse Fuge (which became an independent work Op 133), the remainder of the work remained unchanged. Interestingly, there is an 'original' version of the String Quartet in F major op 18 No 1 which is longer than the version now played; Beethoven trimmed the work and re-wrote some of the parts to make them more idiomatic for the string instruments.
Rakhmaninov - Piano Concertos. I am aware that the composer revised the First and Fourth Piano Concertos, but not that there was an alternative version of the Third.
Rather like the Prokofiev Fourth, there are two completely independent versions of the Fifth Symphony by Langgaard.
I also know of 'alternative versions' of:
Brahms - Piano Quintet Op 34 (also exists in original STRING quintet version)
Copland - Appalachian Spring
Debussy - Several slightly differing versions of several pieces (eg
La mer,
NocturnesDvořák - Piano Concerto
Falla -
El amor brujoGrainger - Take your pick!!
Grieg - Piano Concerto
Haydn - several symphonies, including No 22 (
Philosopher), 53 (
Imperiale), 63, 103
Ives - Symphony No 3
Khachaturian - Gayaneh
Mozart - Symphony No 40 K 550
Pärt - Fratres (several versions)
Prokofiev - Russian Overture Op 72
Rimsky-Korsakov - Symphony/Suite
AntarStravinsky -
The Firebird (1910 ballet, 1911 suite, 1919 suite, 1945 suite)
Stravinsky -
Petrushka (1911 and 1947 versions)
Stravinsky - Symphonies of Wind Instruments
Stravinsky -
Apollo/
Apollon musagèteTchaikovsky -
Hamlet (the full 'Overture Fantasia' and the shortened version for smaller orchestra adapted for the incidental music
Hamlet).
Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No 2
Vaughan Williams - Piano Concerto
Vaughan Willilams -
A London Symphony (Symphony No 2)
Walton - Viola Concerto
One of the most startling 'original versions' of well-known works to have come to light recently has to be that of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Completed in Rome on 16th December 1830, and originally entitled The Lonely Isle, the work was thoroughly revised in 1832 for it's London premiere. The development section veers off into unexpected waters and there are countless fascinating details which the composer changed in attaining the structural perfection of the final version.
This first version is now thankfully available in an excellent recording under Riccardo Chailly -
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BpBJdhSBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
:)
I bought this CD on a whim in, of all places, Tokyo, and was quite startled by how different the Hebrides Overture was when it was The Lonley Isle. I must say that it works very well and would not have disgraced Mendelssohn if he'd left it at that. Of course, the final version is so familiar that it is actually quite difficult to be dispasionate about whether it is in fact an improvement, but in this instance I do feel that it clearly is.
There are several recordings of the "completed" Third Piano Concerto. The first movemnet is powerful and effective but, once that's out of the way, the ratio of "completion" to "original" goes the wrong way and it's tepid stuff.
I can't remember the differences between the "Scottish" Symphony recorded here and the version which has come down to us, so deep an impression did it leave on me.
Quote from: Christopher on Monday 11 April 2011, 10:39
Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet Overture exists in three versions. The third and final version (from 1880) is the most famous, and there are many recordings of it. There are also quite a few recordings of the original verion (premiered in 1870). But does anyone know if there are any recordings of the second version (premiered in 1872)?
This could be developed into a broader theme - are there alternative versions of great pieces which can stand as good works in their own right?
There certainly is a 'version 2' (1870) but, apart from the end, it's almost the same as the final version. As the note appended to this version on IMSLP says, "Bars 1-459 of the 2nd version... are identical to the 3rd version (1880). This extract commences at bar 460".
Now I think about it, there are two versions of Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations as well - the original, which almost no-one plays and the version which Fitzenhagen made in 1878, which everybody plays. After the theme and the first three variations, Fitzenhagen re-ordered the remaining variations and deleted Tchaikovsky's variation VIII altogether. Why most cellists persist in playing this bastardised version is beyond me, since the original has been readily available since Russian cellist Victor Kubatsky published the original version in 1956.
In my much less than good (or even acceptable) English, I defined my reply/intervention as "sketchy" and "tentative", "just a sampler", listing just the first cases coming to mind: and so it was. I declared to look forward to someone else developing better and expanding the very, very broad topic.
So I thank Delicious Manager for his remarks and his extended list.
I would just point out that the topic is so broad that it lends itself to various kind of development.
Alternative version may have different meanings.
Pieces scored for different instruments/forces : Brahms op.34 (also for two pianos - not as a draft).
Pieces differing for some bars (Prokofiev Seventh - Bartok Concerto for Orch., the first with substantial difference, the latter with not really substantial difference).
Pieces differing for one movement. Beethoven op.130 ending with the Grosse Fugue or with an alternative Finale.Allegro. Britten Piano Concerto.
Also a concerto with different cadenzas of different length by the composer (that was to me the case of Rachmaninov Third Concerto, if I remember well).
There could be also the case of different titles, different forces and partially different music (Falla's El Corregidor Y la Molinera becomes El sombrero des tres Picos; case not quite different, apart changing of title, from first version of El Amor Brujo for "cantaora" and small ensemble becoming a ballet for mezzo and symphonic orchestra).
Most subjective the concept of "great piece", where freedom rules. For myself, I hardly would consider "great" many pieces by Grainger, scored in alternative versions (with the possible exception of "the Warriors": about that I know nothing about alternative versions).
(By the way, Mendelssohn Italian symphony second version was first recorded by Claves, cond. Oleg Caetani).
Tchaikovsky's 2nd PC was 'revised' by other hands. Siloti comes to mind immediately. He's the one who hacked up the slow movement, and I believe he also trimmed the first movement cadenza, and maybe rendered the solo part in general a bit less challenging.
The Dvorak PC wasn't revised by Vilém Kurz ?
Quote from: Lionel Harrsion on Monday 11 April 2011, 18:00
Now I think about it, there are two versions of Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations as well - the original, which almost no-one plays and the version which Fitzenhagen made in 1878, which everybody plays. After the theme and the first three variations, Fitzenhagen re-ordered the remaining variations and deleted Tchaikovsky's variation VIII altogether. Why most cellists persist in playing this bastardised version is beyond me, since the original has been readily available since Russian cellist Victor Kubatsky published the original version in 1956.
I always thought that the Rococo Variations was a rather long and boring piece until I heard the original version. I know Shafran said that while he had played both, he preferred the Fitzenhagen version for the more climactic ending. I agree that Fitzenhagen's arrangement makes the ending more climactic but it does so at the expense of the middle of the piece.
Quote from: alberto on Monday 11 April 2011, 23:59
The Dvorak PC wasn't revised by Vilém Kurz ?
Yes, it was. Rudolf Firkusny also spliced together the Kurz and original versions for his Westminster LP, although, I've heard he subsequently recorded the original version.
Yeah, Tchaik's PC#2 exists only in one version by him.
On the flip side, the PC #1 exists in three -- the first has been recorded here http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=11958&name_role1=1&comp_id=3209&genre=154&bcorder=195&name_id=15204&name_role=2
(which also contains an alternate 'concert' ending for the first movement of the Concert Fantasia)
Incidentally there's NO different versions of Rach's PC#3 -- just two different cadenzas, both of which are used frequently.
There are two of #1 however, and THREE of #4 (both earlier ones recorded, the earliest on the same as original #1).
Rachmaninov is an interesting case -- as is well known, he had multiple versions of other stuff like the second sonata and a couple of the Morceaux de Fantaisie -- interesting about the later is that he recorded (on piano roll) a sort of 'intermediate' version for two works, that show some but not all changes.
I could go on and on about 'versions' (bless BIS for the Sibelius Edition where they do everything....) but normally they are often quite hard to get a fix on when they haven't been recorded, outside of "it exists"
I think most alternative versions of Sibelius works are being recorded where possible thanks to Robert von Bähr's initiative over at BIS.
Similarly the fellow over at Laurel Records is said to have helped get the early version of Beethoven's opus 18/1 premiered on his label- again, so I gather.
To distinguish between sketches and drafts on the one hand and versions I suppose I would have to suggest that versions have different characters on-the-large - you can definitely tell the different versions of Bruckner 2 or 8 apart (hrm. in the case of symphony 2 because movements have been bodily shifted around by hauling equipment... erm... I mean, because the scherzo is in 2nd place, rather, in the earlier version that I've heard anyway... for the most obvious reason- for symphony 8 there's something curiously longer about the first movement- and the ending seems different, somehow :)- and there's that trio in the 2nd movement too- speaking whether one's more used to the final version or - hrm. not sure which earlier version it is I've heard. it does get confusing; I should consult a reference... or again, as with Rach 3, stick with Bruckner 6, an anchor point of more or less stability ;) )
Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 12 April 2011, 12:58
I think most alternative versions of Sibelius works are being recorded where possible thanks to Robert von Bähr's initiative over at BIS.
Similarly the fellow over at Laurel Records is said to have helped get the early version of Beethoven's opus 18/1 premiered on his label- again, so I gather.
To distinguish between sketches and drafts on the one hand and versions I suppose I would have to suggest that versions have different characters on-the-large - you can definitely tell the different versions of Bruckner 2 or 8 apart (hrm. in the case of symphony 2 because movements have been bodily shifted around by hauling equipment... erm... I mean, because the scherzo is in 2nd place, rather, in the earlier version that I've heard anyway... for the most obvious reason- for symphony 8 there's something curiously longer about the first movement- and the ending seems different, somehow :)- and there's that trio in the 2nd movement too- speaking whether one's more used to the final version or - hrm. not sure which earlier version it is I've heard. it does get confusing; I should consult a reference... or again, as with Rach 3, stick with Bruckner 6, an anchor point of more or less stability ;) )
Bruckner is certainly a minefield, although Nos 5, 6, 7 and 9 present fewer problems than some of the others. These are the various versions of the Bruckner symphonies:
Symphony 'No.00' in F minor - 1 version, 1863 (ed Nowak)
Symphony 'No 0' in D minor (actually written between Nos 1 and 2) - 2 editions of the original 1869 score (Nowak, Wöss) with minor variations of detail
Symphony No 1 in C minor
- Original 1866
Linz version
- Revised 1877
Linz version (2 slightly differing editions - Nowak, Haas)
- Revised 1891 version
- Doblinger 1893 edition of 1891 revision
Symphony No 2 in C minor
- Original 1872 version
- Performance version of 1873
- Revised 1876 version
- Revised 1877 version (2 slightly differing editions - Nowak, Haas)
- Revised 1892 version
Symphony No 3 in D minor
- Original 1873 version
- Slightly revised 1874 version (almost identical to 1873)
- Revised 1876 version of Adagio only
- Revised 1877 version
- Revised 1878 version (almost identical to 1877)
- Revised 1889 version
- Revised 1890 version (very similar to 1889)
Symphony No 4 in E flat
- Original 1874 version
- Revised 1878 version (including
Volkfest finale)
- Revised 1880 version
- Revised 1881 version (based on 1880)
- Revised 1886 version
- Revised 1888 version (2 differing editions - Korstvedt, Loewe)
Symphony No 5 in B flat
- Original 1876 version
- Revised 1878 version (2 almost identical editions, Nowak, Haas)
- Revised 1896 version
Symphony No 6 in A major - exists in only one original 1881 version (2 slightly differing editions - Nowak, Haas)
Symphony No 7 in E major - exists in only one original 1885 version (2 almost identical editions - Nowak, Haas)
Symphony No 8 in C minor
- Original 1887 version
- Mixed 1887/90 edition (Haas)
- Revised 1890 version (ed Nowak)
Symphony No 9 in D minor
- Original 1894 version (3 almost identical editions - Nowak, Orel, Cohrs)
- Corrupt posthumous Doblinger 1903 edition (ed Loewe)
Beethoven: "Fidelio" and its two previous versions "Leonore 1805" and "Leonore 1806." Lots of good music on the cutting room floor.
Joachim Eggert: Symphony in C-minor versions 1805 and 1807.
If memory serves, the "gives me a headache even thinking about" category applies to the versions of works by Liszt, Grainger, Busoni, Sorabji somewhat, and certain others- performer-composers especially though not only - composer-pianists those, but Langgaard (Rued, not Siegfried), an organist-composer, definitely belongs very very much in that list as well. (though compiling a truly scholarly worklist for a composer is /strike/probably/-strike/ a difficult task even when their work output does not contain a list of different versions, quasi-versions, "If it is signed by me, it may be published" (Liszt.), ...) (oh. Ives, too, yes? not as a performer-composer, but as someone whose worklist gets extremely confusing for this particular reason.)
Quote from: TerraEpon on Tuesday 12 April 2011, 06:58
Yeah, Tchaik's PC#2 exists only in one version by him.
On the flip side, the PC #1 exists in three -- the first has been recorded here http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=11958&name_role1=1&comp_id=3209&genre=154&bcorder=195&name_id=15204&name_role=2
(which also contains an alternate 'concert' ending for the first movement of the Concert Fantasia)
Incidentally there's NO different versions of Rach's PC#3 -- just two different cadenzas, both of which are used frequently.
There are two of #1 however, and THREE of #4 (both earlier ones recorded, the earliest on the same as original #1).
Rachmaninov is an interesting case -- as is well known, he had multiple versions of other stuff like the second sonata and a couple of the Morceaux de Fantaisie -- interesting about the later is that he recorded (on piano roll) a sort of 'intermediate' version for two works, that show some but not all changes.
I could go on and on about 'versions' (bless BIS for the Sibelius Edition where they do everything....) but normally they are often quite hard to get a fix on when they haven't been recorded, outside of "it exists"
Just some idle ramblings: in those cases in which the composer has second (or multiple) thoughts, it's interesting to think about the motivations and the outcomes. Consider the Rachmaninov Concertos, for instance: the revised (1917) version of the 1st Concerto is much more successful than the original student composition of 1891 with its longueurs and overwriting. On the other hand, I find the first version of 4th concerto to be much more satisfying than the later versions. Once one has become familiar with it, the later revisions strike one as having been butchered much in the way that the 2nd Symphony and the 3rd Concerto frequently were at one time.
Rachmaninov's well-known lack of self confidence did him no favours in this regard. Remember his recounting performances of the Corelli Variations in which the more the audience coughed and shuffled, the fewer of the variations he'd play. It was that misplaced self-doubt that caused him to revise the 4th Concerto, not an intellectual conviction that there was anything wrong with it. I think the same applies to the B-flat minor Sonata - the original is a much more effective piece of architecture, to my way of thinking.
Sibelius's judgement was built on sounder foundations, however; he got it absolutely right in revising the Violin Concerto - the tighter structure results in a piece that sweeps one along much more powerfully than the more diffuse and rambling original version, interesting though it is.
In the case of Rachmaninoff's 3rd concerto, the only notable revision was the cadenza. There are two cadenzas, and there are ample recordings with each. Both versions of his 2nd Sonata are also readily available on recordings.
I am much more intrigued by the original version of the 1st Sonata. To my knowledge, it has never been recorded, and has never been performed other than by Rachmaninoff himself. The revised version is quite the challenge as it is -- half an hour of a gazillion notes from which the pianist must try to illuminate the beauties within. The original version was reportedly 10-15 minutes longer and even more challenging.
Rachmaninoff found no champion for the work. Of course, there were fewer pianists capable of doing justice to the piece back then, and they had plenty of other music to play.
I seem to remember that the original version was to be published a few years ago. I would love to hear a performance of the original work. The problem is, there have been very few recordings of even the revised version worthy of a second listen. The single best performance ever of the work (caught on record anyway) was Yakov Kasman's performance during the Van Cliburn Competition. There, in that one performance, all the greatness of the sonata is revealed. No other recording (and I've heard them all), including Kasman's own studio recording, really plumb the depths and capture the beauty of the piece. How treacherous must be the original version? I fear only Rachmaninoff himself could have done it justice.
Huh. I've never come across anything about more than one version of the first sonata, at least nothing in a finished state (I.E. none of the catalogs, IIRC, say anything about there being more than one version whereas they do with PC1, PC4, Sonata 2, the morceaux, etc.)
It is discussed in the Wikileaks article, for one. The version played today averages 35-40 minutes playing time. The original version was about 12-15 minutes longer -- a real monster of a piece.
And by the way, there were actually 3 versions of Rachmaninoff's 2nd sonata. The original version was longer. Rachmaninoff chopped it down to around 18 minutes. Horowitz thought he went too far, and Horowitz produced a third version, which was a compromise. He did this with Rachmaninoff's knowledge and agreement. Rachmaninoff was never really satisfied with the piece. The Horowitz version is actually played and recorded a lot these days, but there are recordings of all three available.
Yeah, but Horowitz's doesn't 'count' any more than, say, Khachaturian wrote a flute concerto.
Agree. Rachmaninoff crafted two versions of Sonata 2. The Horowitz compromise doesn't count. (But a lot of people think they are hearing the Rachmaninoff revision, when they are really hearing the Horowitz version, on a lot of recordings.) I personally like the original version better than the revision.
...
... Wikileaks or Wikipedia?
haha -- my bad -- Wikipedia.
To get back to the original topic, the second (1870) version HAS been recorded - once! The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra is conducted by Baldur Bronimann. This recording was made specially for a BBC radio series in 2007 called the 'Tchaikovsky Experience'. During this series the BBC recorded lots of previously unrecorded Tchaikovsky works, such as the 1870 version of Romeo and Juliet, the original version of the 'Winter Daydreams' symphony, the first version of the opera Cherevichki (originally known as Vakula the Smith), and other small piano pieces, choruses and songs.
Sadly, none of these recordings are for sale commercially yet (a big BOO to the BBC for their lack of marketing savvy), and there is no way to access them. We just have to hope that someone decides to release them on CD one day, or maybe some nice person who was lucky enough to record them off the radio will upload them to YouTube...
About the 1870 Romeo, it is exactly the same as the 1880 version except for the last 80 bars or so. Most of the ideas in this coda are there, but in a different order. This link will give you more information about it:
http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/Works/Orchestral/TH042/index.html
I hope this helps!
I remember that series (though i remember it as the Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky experience, but yes- lots of previously unrecorded Tchaik. The BBC had done a few other such week-long series in the previous few years and very good ones, as I remember. There have been a few attempts to make some of the BBC archives available on CD- IMP Classics had an imprint for awhile that included a very! fine CD with two Boughton symphonies conducted by Downes, for example - but I imagine licensing difficulties amount to immense migraine headaches somewhat as with similar efforts for the huge Russian radio archives (or so I have heard in relation to them too. Some such efforts have been more above-board than others, in -that- case, rumor has it, but that's another story and anyway...)
But it would be good... as would a good new recording of course. Thanks!
Eric
The really radical revisions were Tchaikovsky's symphony which he revised or rather reused some of the music as a piano concerto and Beethoven's violin concerto which he revised as a piano concerto, not to mention Hummel's mandolin concerto which he revised as a piano concertino. There are also the Tchaikovsky ballets, in particular Swan Lake to which he made substantial revisions after the first performance.
Greetings!
I have just uploaded the BBC recording of the second version for you! The quality is just bad so don't complain! ;)
Regards,
Mathias
No complaints from me! :)
THanks very much.
A big thanks from me too!
I'm getting into this one very late but I've had Romeo and Juliet, Dalia Atlas / Philharmonia/ Pickwick CD55 for around a decade, thought it was version 1 - 1869 and whilst the end love theme is similar, the intro/build up is completely different. It was recorded at a church just two parishes away from me.
The Dalia Atlas Philharmonia recording of the original 1869 version of Romeo and Juliet is excellent, probably the best we have so far. There are other recordings by Derek Gleeson with the London Philharmonic (Carlton Classics, out of print); Geoffrey Simon with the London Symphony (Chandos); Vladimir Jurowski with the Russian National Orchestra (Pentatone) and an old ABC Australia LP (long out of print!) with Sir Charles Mackerras and the Australian Youth Orchestra, but Atlas' recording still stands out!
Quote from: britishcomposer on Friday 17 June 2011, 23:43
Greetings!
I have just uploaded the BBC recording of the second version for you! The quality is just bad so don't complain! ;)
Regards,
Mathias
Britishcomposer - many thanks for uploading this! Very curious as to how you found it, and as to what other recordings you have! I have downloaded it - the ending is certainly very different from the other two versions, I greatly enjoyed listening and comparing. Thanks again!
Quote from: fuhred on Thursday 16 June 2011, 11:16
To get back to the original topic, the second (1870) version HAS been recorded - once! The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra is conducted by Baldur Bronimann. This recording was made specially for a BBC radio series in 2007 called the 'Tchaikovsky Experience'. During this series the BBC recorded lots of previously unrecorded Tchaikovsky works, such as the 1870 version of Romeo and Juliet, the original version of the 'Winter Daydreams' symphony, the first version of the opera Cherevichki (originally known as Vakula the Smith), and other small piano pieces, choruses and songs.
Sadly, none of these recordings are for sale commercially yet (a big BOO to the BBC for their lack of marketing savvy), and there is no way to access them. We just have to hope that someone decides to release them on CD one day, or maybe some nice person who was lucky enough to record them off the radio will upload them to YouTube...
About the 1870 Romeo, it is exactly the same as the 1880 version except for the last 80 bars or so. Most of the ideas in this coda are there, but in a different order. This link will give you more information about it:
http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/en/Works/Orchestral/TH042/index.html
I hope this helps!
Aha - so there IS a recording of "Vakula the Smith"! Does anyone know how to get their hands on it?!
Quote from: Christopher on Friday 24 June 2011, 13:04
Quote from: britishcomposer on Friday 17 June 2011, 23:43
Greetings!
I have just uploaded the BBC recording of the second version for you! The quality is just bad so don't complain! ;)
Regards,
Mathias
Britishcomposer - many thanks for uploading this! Very curious as to how you found it, and as to what other recordings you have! I have downloaded it - the ending is certainly very different from the other two versions, I greatly enjoyed listening and comparing. Thanks again!
You are welcome, Christopher!
I recorded it when it was broadcast by the BBC as part of their 7-day Tchaikovsky-Experience. I tried to record many of the rare pieces but my internet connection was very bad then and it's no great joy listening to the files. Anyway, if you like I will upload a few. Tell me what you are interested in and I will see if I have archived it!
I have always been very fond of Tchaikovsky since my teens. I dare say he saved my life then.
Quote from: britishcomposer on Friday 24 June 2011, 18:53
Quote from: Christopher on Friday 24 June 2011, 13:04
Quote from: britishcomposer on Friday 17 June 2011, 23:43
Greetings!
I have just uploaded the BBC recording of the second version for you! The quality is just bad so don't complain! ;)
Regards,
Mathias
Britishcomposer - many thanks for uploading this! Very curious as to how you found it, and as to what other recordings you have! I have downloaded it - the ending is certainly very different from the other two versions, I greatly enjoyed listening and comparing. Thanks again!
You are welcome, Christopher!
I recorded it when it was broadcast by the BBC as part of their 7-day Tchaikovsky-Experience. I tried to record many of the rare pieces but my internet connection was very bad then and it's no great joy listening to the files. Anyway, if you like I will upload a few. Tell me what you are interested in and I will see if I have archived it!
I have always been very fond of Tchaikovsky since my teens. I dare say he saved my life then.
Hi Mathias!
Well, I think that I and many others (particularly the Tchaikovsky nuts like me!) would be very grateful if you uploaded everything that you have from that BBC programme, especially if the pieces are rare and not otherwise commercially available. Even if the quality is not great, it will still be very interesting to listen. (And I don't think the quality on the Romeo and Juliet was bad at all actually). Look forward to seeing what you put up!!
Christopher
I recall one such piece was among Tchaikovsky's very earliest works, more or less his opus 1 or earlier still...