Hi - I've been avidly reading about the unsung composers and have been delighted to hear all the Havergal-Brian Symphonies care of this great site (this was one of my missions in life!), however, I am surprised that no one has mentioned George Lloyd (to my knowledge), as I have his 2nd, 7th, 9th & 11th Symphonies (CD's) and I think they are worth bringing to the notice of others in the unsung composers category - I would be delighted to hear the other symphonies if any of you specialist listeners have any old recordings in stock - would be great if they found their way into one of the files online!..... ;)
Well, would be great if this matter is given consideration - I look forward to responses on this overlooked matter!
Hrm?...
not only mentioned, but turns up at least 8 times in a search here, with a topic all his own (Re: George Lloyd?) back late 2009...
The search feature on this forum is a bit wonky. Have to use it carefully to turn up results or you won't find things. But he has been discussed quite a bit in fact..
Yes, my searches yielded nothing but I did come across some listings after I'd posted - doh! Would still be nice if anyone has any performances that could go into the media files listing so we could expand our knowledge of him.....
I remember back in the early 00s when Albany was releasing a bunch of discs by him, there was a lot of hoopla on Classicstoday and other sites (and probably Usenet as well).
I listened to some of it....and honestly I found it all really boring.
I like some of his works reasonably well- the Symphonic Mass was a real find, the piano concertos, some of the symphonies and a few other works likewise. I admit in cases including here to be put off by the claims of the composer's own admirers (especially when for the nth time they have discovered another new tonal composer they believe has been hidden from them by the ... ah, never mind.
Here the story is different (in detail at least), the biography is very interesting, the compositions seem to me to have a reasonable general level.
I like the Downes recordings better than the ones by Lloyd himself ( I speak for the 5th and 8th) and to me the fifth is the best of all the symphonies.
My favorite Lloyd symphony is #6, especially the first movement. That opening theme is magnificent -- rather Waltonian!
#s 5, 7, 8, and 11 also appeal to me very much.
I taped the BBC premiere's of his symphonies many years ago, prior to the Albany releases, and have been a fan ever since. I think the 6th is probably my favourite. I described them in a previous e-mail (on the 20thC symphonists thread) as swashbuckling - they are certainly big romantic works, and I think they have a strong streak of nationalism (patriotism, maybe) which reflect the composer's war experiences. Maybe, like Elgar, they appeal most to British ears? Then, of course, there's his opera Iernin - anyone familiar with that?
There's an 18 minute play of the Albany recording of Lloyd's 11th Sympnoy at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAnFyzowTfU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAnFyzowTfU)
I think it gives a good feel for his work......
I have the same Symphonies as gasman: 2,7,9,11 (Conifer). My favourite is n.7. I own also the Piano Concerto n.4 (et alia-Conifer) and "The Vigil of Venus" (Argo). Nothing boring or dull, for me. My interest in Lloyd arose reading an enthusiastic letter by a reader (NOT a reviewer) on Gramophone. That was about twenty years ago.
Roughly at the same time the first record I bought (maybe the first I saw interested in the composer) was "The Vigil of Venus" (Argo), in Nice, France, sold as a bargain, at a very cheap price.
Later, in different years and various occasions, I bought in Torino, Italy, Symphonies 7, 2+9, 11, Piano concerto 4. (all Conifer): always at very cheap price (and Conifer still existed).
I even found and bought still as a bargain (maybe 10-12 years since the first) a second copy of "The Vigil of Venus" (Argo): I presented it to a friend and it was appreciated (not just for politeness).
The above is not an epitome of the fact that the unsung, let's say "often", "don't sell"?
For Lloyd the reason could be (as semloh suggests) a kind of "nationalism" . But that should not have affected "The Vigil of Venus", which I found unsold, and reduced to a bargain, both in France and in Italy.
Alberto - you certainly did well! I have CDs of 4,7,& 9, plus tapes of 5,6,8,and 11, and the 4th Piano Concerto, Royal Parks and an excerpt fron Iernin. And, I enjoy all of them. I've never heard The Vigil of Venus, but I see that it, and the Argo recording re-issue, get a positive review at:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Feb03/lloyd_vigil.htm
I agree entirely with the two reviewers' choice of 'key works' - it's hard to go past the 6th - and I suppose one can hardly disagree that the later works are less inventive... maybe due to Lloyd's deteriorating health. Wiki lists 12 symphonies - and a Requiem, completed just before he died aged 85, and dedicated to Diana, Princess of Wales.
I tend to think that the unsung do a bit better in areas where they aren't competing - Reicha and Krommer have more recordings and performances of their music for winds, but their symphonies and string quartets come up in competition with contemporaries in a similar style and period who are much better-known and (even in my opinion) better at most (I do not mean all, but many important) aspects of composition.
This is not the whole reason- of which there is rarely only one - but I incline to think that it is a reason. There are other, less "reasonable" ones (and I am - I do not mean to imply otherwise! - glad to see recordings of those symphonies, quartets, etc. and hope to hear more of them and wish I could presently afford to purchase and encourage them more than I can. That is not what I mean.)
I saw him conduct his Symphony11 in London - a Khachaturian type work which I like. I also like his 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto and the epic No 3 (also like Khachaturian). As for the symphonies I like No 4, which I think the greatest. The slow movement of No 8 is very moving and No 7 is another favourite. I also prefer the Lyrita CDs to those on Albany.
I was a big fan of George Lloyd when the Conifer and Lyrita recordings originally came out on LP - then I got side-tracked and did not collect all of the Albany discs. However, in reaction to this thread, I've just started revisiting the recordings that I do have - Symphonies 2, 7 and 9 (Conifer), 4, 5 and 8 (Lyrita), 6 and 10, the Symphonic Mass and Iernin (Albany).
I must say that I'm really enjoying this renewal of acquaintance with some of the best of Lloyd's music - the Lyrita recordings in particular are superbly realised under Edward Downes. Whether the idiom is anachronistic or not doesn't bother me in the slightest.
;D
I seem to recall that when the Lloyd symphonies were issued on disc the critics were (predictably) sniffy about such "old-fashioned music". It was certainly not the "done thing" to admit to liking Lloyd's music-any more than it was the done thing to preferring Pendereckian neo-romanticism to the music he wrote before 1980 :(
My favourites are Nos. 7 and 11 but Nos. 4 and 5 are impressive pieces too if I recall. I do tend to prefer Lloyd in more serious mood though. The lighter symphonies rather blend into each other to my ears.
His is exactly the kind of music which would go down so well with most of the audiences at concert performance if it was ever given the chance. Instead we get endless performances-often no better than average of the same old popular warhorses with a concerto played by yet another "young virtuoso" :o
Do I remember correctly that Lloyd himself put up some/all of the money for the Albany recordings?
I have Lloyd's Symphonies Nos. 5, 6 and 7 on tape and am happy to listen to the tapes and determine the performers if anyone is interested?
Quote from: Dundonnell on Wednesday 26 October 2011, 17:43when the Lloyd symphonies were issued on disc the critics were (predictably) sniffy about such "old-fashioned music".
The
New York Times (28th November, 1982) was unexpectedly positive when the Lyrita LPs first came out -
George Lloyd's Symphony No. 5 (SRCS 124) and Symphony No. 8 (SRCS 113) are performed by the Philharmonia Orchestra under Edward Downes. The composer, born in 1913, has had a constantly interrupted career because of shellshock in World War II and subsequent spells of poor health. Yet he has managed to write a surprising number of largescale works, and the two symphonies here have a high quantity of energy and excitement. The style is unabashed 19th-century Romanticism; the technique, accomplished.
:)
Ok...I checked my tape recordings:
Symphony No.5 is done by the Philharmonia/Sir Edward Downes so that could be the performance which was recorded by Lyrita.
Symphony No.6 is done by the BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra/Sir Edward Downes......so that performance would be ok for uploading.
Symphony No.7 is missing the first ten minutes :o so we should forget it :(
I can upload Symphony No.6 if it that is required.
Quote from: Dundonnell on Wednesday 26 October 2011, 18:30Symphony No.6 is done by the BBC Northern Symphony Orchestra/Sir Edward Downes......so that performance would be ok for uploading.
There's certainly no harm in making an alternative to the Albany performance available, especially since Downes did not commercially record the 6th for Lyrita.
:)
Quote from: Albion on Wednesday 26 October 2011, 18:18
Quote from: Dundonnell on Wednesday 26 October 2011, 17:43when the Lloyd symphonies were issued on disc the critics were (predictably) sniffy about such "old-fashioned music".
The New York Times (28th November, 1982) was unexpectedly positive when the Lyrita LPs first came out -
:)
Yes, my memory isn't great, but I have the impression of being pleasantly surprised by the generally
positive reception his work received. But maybe that's because I love Lloyd's music and quickly cast aside the "sniffy" reviews! ;D
It's amusing for me to think that when the symphonies were broadcast on Radio 3 all those years ago, you and I - two Colins - were simultaneously turning on our reel-to-reel tape recorders, and now here we are, in contact in 2011 on opposite sides of the world. Life is pretty amazing! 8) 8)
According to my records, these were the first radio broadcast of the 5th, and the premiere of the 6th. :)
Clearly, if one lives long enough everything comes together ;D
Colin, I for one would be very interested in Lloyd's Sixth, thanks.
I shall certainly upload it, Mark :)
I have 5, 6, 8 & 11 on cassette - I'll check the provenance. I hope they're not the Albanys.
My new (2nd hand) cassette deck should arrive soon 8) 8) ...and then I'll be 'in business'! :)
I've also found the R2R - now to find the boxes of tapes! ::)
QuoteI shall certainly upload it, Mark
Thanks, Colin.
I've loved Lloyd since my teens and was lucky enough to have corresponded with him. Recently I reacquainted myself with the symphonies and discovered the glorious concertos and choral music. The Requiem and the Cello concerto are amazing for a man in his mid-eighties. The former uses only an organ, not orchestra, yet sounds as full as Faure or Verdi (with a slight hint of African choral singing in the harmonies) and the latter deserves to stand beside the Elgar as a romantic concerto. However, despite all the recordings, Lloyd's reputation seems to sit only on Amazon: I never see his CDs in Tower Records (unlike, say Havergal Brian, who has his own named section in my local branch), and I think people are *still* embarrassed about liking him. I can only hope for a recording of 'The Serf'
I'd also like to hear complete performances of The Serf (1938) and John Socman (1951) too - the highlights disc of the latter gave a good impression of the work. Iernin (1934) was very fortunate in obtaining the studio broadcast later issued by Albany - not a perfectly integrated work stylistically by any means, but with some really lovely writing making it easy to understand why it was a popular and critical success on it's first staging at the Lyceum in 1935.
:)
Yes, the 'John Socman' release was great, in that clearly some budget-maker had decreed that it could only be given one disc, so they filled that disc to capacity, wisely omitting the overture, since it is available elsewhere. So few recording companies seem to realise that recording an orchestral 'suite' from an opera gives little or no idea of its character, whereas sung highlights like these make us feel we have very nearly heard the work and can make some assessement of it.
Quotesung highlights like these make us feel we have very nearly heard the work and can make some assessement of it
Good point. Opera Rara's highlights CDs are a case in point.
That's also why the 1995 Britannia at the Opera broadcasts were such a success - the following episodes (minus the narration) are in the British music archive:
Edward Loder - Raymond and Agnes (1855)
Charles Villiers Stanford - The Travelling Companion (1916)
Joseph Holbrooke - Bronwen (1915-20)
Cyril Scott - The Alchemist (1917-18)
Arthur Bliss - The Olympians (1948)
Arthur Benjamin - A Tale of Two Cities (1950)
Another radio series along these lines would certainly not go amiss - sadly, these days, this is clearly beyond the realms of the possible.
::)