Unsung Composers

Where next for the British interest in RPC? The list of inclusion is now impressive -


It would be good to see Cipriani Potter and possibly George Alexander Macfarren on the list and it would be exciting for the series to secure access to Sterndale Bennett's 6th. In more general terms, it would also be more than intriguing to hear something substantial by Percy Sherwood (the first Piano Concerto [1887] or the symphonies [1887, 1892, 1905-7]), or to have some of Henry Walford Davies' numerous concertante works on disc, whilst Holbrooke's second concerto should certainly be a strong candidate.

Beyond this, I'm struggling to think of unrecorded works that might be considered for further entries in the series. Any suggestions for other worthwhile British works that have extant performing material and fit the (loosely) 'Romantic' remit?

???

Roger Sacheverell Coke: 4th PC - MS Full Score & parts available (Chesterfield Library) - [the 3rd PC could be re-orchestrated from the 2-piano score, which Roger had published]
Frank Tapp: Symphonic Rhapsody - Introduction, double fugue & finale for two pianos & double string orchestra  [I have a photocopy of the MS of this piece]
Holbrooke: PC No. 3 (otherwise known as the "Dance" Symphony) - orchestra would have to be realised from 2nd piano part [though I have to say that neither this nor the PC No. 2 "L'Orient" are really Romantic - they sound nothing like the 1st PC]
D'Erlanger: Concerto Symphonique
Arthur Hinton: Piano Concerto
Dora Bright: PC in A minor + Variations on an Original Theme for piano & orchestra [MSS in RAM]
Dorothy Howell: Piano Concerto
Borowski: Piano Concerto
Henry Cotter Nixon: Konzertstuck for Piano & orchestra [MS at RCM]
Stanley Wilson: Piano Concertos 1 & 2 + Concerto in modo classico for piano & orchestra [MSS in RCM]
Baines: Poeme de Concert (MS)
Brian Easdale: Concerto Lirico {MS supposed to be in possession of Music Sales International)
Parish-Alvars: MS of at least one PC extant in RAM (supposed to have written 2)
Simon Waley: Piano Concerto [parts in BL]

Don't know if the performing material for these still exists - but they have been recorded so could, in theory, be reconstructed from the audio records:
Edward Isaacs: PC
Frank Merrick: 2 PCs

Additionally, the early PCs of Gaze Cooper - those called Concerti Symphoniques - may fall into the "Romantic" category. I have not seen the scores, but MS performance materials are held in the BMS Archive.

Hello Albion,

I would have to add some compositions by Cyril Bradley Rootham; a splendid composer who is one of my personal favourites:

Ode on the Morning of Christ's Nativity
Brown Earth
2nd Symphony

Regards,

Eric.

Albion's thread begins: "Where next for the British interest in RPC?" - so I think it is intended to be confined to British Romantic works for piano & orchestra that have not yet been recorded.

Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 25 September 2011, 12:42
Albion's thread begins: "Where next for the British interest in RPC?" - so I think it is intended to be confined to British Romantic works for piano & orchestra that have not yet been recorded.

Indeed it is, although a plea for more Rootham will always find favour with many forum members! These are certainly very interesting suggestions, Gareth, and it's good to see female representation on the list - given their idiom, it might be possible to also advocate Grace Williams' Sinfonia Concertante and Ruth Gipps' Concerto.

:)

Very much so for both Williams and Gipps.  Angela Brownridge has just finished recording the Ruth Gipps PC for Cameo Classics with the Malta Philharmonic.  The British Music Information Centre were supposed to have a set of parts for the PC, but these could not be found so David Kent-Watson of Cameo paid for a new set of parts to be produced from the full score, kindly supplied by David Wright.

Great news about the Gipps recording, Gareth. I deleted the files of the 2nd and 3rd movements from BMB as they were unlistenable due to 'digital click' damage, but the 1st movement is still there for listeners who might want to acqaint themselves with (some of) this very attractive piece!

Have you any idea what will make up the rest of the Cameo disc?

;)

Yes. Kenneth Leighton's 1st PC (recorded at the same time as the Gipps) and some solo piano pieces by Ruth Gipps which have yet to be done. Recording of these solo pieces is currently scheduled for November.

Not being an indepth researcher, I have no knowledge of manuscripts or scores, but here are some additional British composers and their P & O works:

Ashton, Algernon  (1859-1937)  Piano Concerto
Barnette, John Francis  (1837-   Piano Concerto
Bruckshaw, Kathleen  (1877-192   Piano Concerto in C
Cusins, William  (1833-1893) Piano Concerto in A
Dalley-Scarlett, Robert  (1890  Piano Concerto
Delara, Adelina  (1872-19??)   Piano Concerto #1,#2
Ellicott, Rosalind  (1857-1924)  Fantasia for P&O
Farjeon, Harry   Phantasy Piano Concerto  Piano Concerto in D
Griffin, George  (1781-1863)  Piano Concerto #1,#2
Horseley, Charles   Piano Concerto in D
Jewson, Frederick  (1823-1891)  Piano Concerto #1,#2
Nixon, Henry  (1842-1907)  Konzerstuck for piano & orch
Reinagle, Carolyn  (1818-1892)  Piano Concerto
Waddington, S. P.  (1869-1953)  Piano Concerto
Walthew, Richard  (1872-1951)   Piano Concerto in Eb


Jerry

Thanks, Jerry - some more interesting ideas! I'd certainly like to hear music by John Francis Barnett (1837-1916): Grove online gives principal orchestral works as follows -

Symphony, a, London, 1864
Ouverture symphonique, London, Philharmonic Society, 1868, rev. 1891
Piano Concerto, d, op.25, 1869, pf part (Leipzig, c1885)
Overture, The Winter's Tale, 1873
The Lay of the Last Minstrel, sym. poem (after W. Scott), Liverpool, 1874 (1874)
The Harvest Festival, suite, Norwich, 1881, rev. 1892 as Pastoral Suite
2 Sketches: Ebbing Tide and Elfland, London, Crystal Palace, 1883
2 Sketches: Flowing Tide and Fairyland, London, Crystal Palace, 1891
Liebeslied and Im alten Styl, London, Crystal Palace, 1895
Pensée mélodique and Gavotte, London, 1899 (Leipzig, 1899)
Concerto pastorale, fl, orch

- so it appears that the piano part (at least) of the concerto was published. As to an autograph or copyist full score ....

???

The full score of Barnett's Im alten Styl (published in 1897) is at IMSLP for what that's worth ... was it indeed initially part of a pair with the Liebeslied? Will want to note that in the entry there if so, as we only have the one work and it seems to be marked as a singleton- thanks.

QuoteAshton, Algernon  (1859-1937)  Piano Concerto
Barnette, John Francis  (1837-   Piano Concerto
Bruckshaw, Kathleen  (1877-192   Piano Concerto in C
Cusins, William  (1833-1893) Piano Concerto in A
Dalley-Scarlett, Robert  (1890  Piano Concerto
Delara, Adelina  (1872-19??)   Piano Concerto #1,#2
Ellicott, Rosalind  (1857-1924)  Fantasia for P&O
Farjeon, Harry   Phantasy Piano Concerto  Piano Concerto in D
Griffin, George  (1781-1863)  Piano Concerto #1,#2
Horseley, Charles   Piano Concerto in D
Jewson, Frederick  (1823-1891)  Piano Concerto #1,#2
Nixon, Henry  (1842-1907)  Konzerstuck for piano & orch
Reinagle, Carolyn  (1818-1892)  Piano Concerto
Waddington, S. P.  (1869-1953)  Piano Concerto
Walthew, Richard  (1872-1951)   Piano Concerto in Eb

Of these listed no trace can be found of the following:

Algernon Ashton (MS probably destroyed during the blitz)
Kathleen Bruckshaw
Rosalind Ellicott (though all hope has not been given up yet here - Martin Eastick used to be in touch with the Ellicott family)

The University of Cambridge has a copy of the solo piano part of Barnett's (note spelling) D minor PC, Op. 25. No orchestral material listed on COPAC. But it was published by Kistner so there may be something in Germany - or Kistner may still have the parts in their archive (unlikely - but one never knows).

Harry Farjeon's Phantasy Concerto for piano and chamber orchestra was published by Stainer & Bell as part of the Carnegie Collection of British Music, and they should still have a set of parts. The printed 2-piano score is readily available in a number of British academic libraries.

A full set of parts for Griffin's Op. 1 PC (No. 1) is available in BL and elsewhere. BL and Cambridge University also list a Piano Concerto No. 3, Op. 6 - piano part only, in both cases. No sign of PC no. 2 on COPAC.

The 2-piano score of Cusins' concerto is in both BL and RAM (though BL may have only the solo piano part). No orchestral parts. It was published by Cranz in 1875 so there may be a set of parts in Berlin, Munich or another German library.

The Fisher Library at the University of Sydney contains a "Dalley-Scarlett Collection", so that might be a good place to look for his PC.

Charles Horsley's (note spelling) PC is Op. 24 in C minor (not D). The sadly incomplete MS full score is British Library. Ms. add. 71537 (key wrongly given as E flat). However, the Australian musicologist, Richard Divall (Horsley moved to Australia in 1861) has been doing extensive research on music by Anglo-Australian composers (among other things he published in 2003 a performing edition of Horsley's VC) and is probably the man to consult about this work.

BL has the solo piano part of Jewson's 2nd concerto; RAM has the 2-piano score. No orchestral material seems to be available. 1st PC not listed in COPAC.

I do not know the whereabouts of the scores and performance materials for the other works - apart from Henry Cotter Nixon's Konzertstuck, which I mentioned in my post above - but I do not think any of them was published, so locating them is going to be difficult (which is why I didn't mention these pieces). I would love to find the Fantasia in G and the 2nd PC of Dora Bright, for example, but exhaustive (and exhausting) searches by me and others have so far failed to bring them to light.  So much was lost during WWII or simply discarded by uninterested family members after the composer's death.  Jean Holbrooke told me that, if it hadn't been for Gwydion, all Joseph Holbrooke's unpublished scores would have been burnt as his other children had no interest in them.

If anyone knows the whereabouts of any of these concertos I would be most interested to be informed.

Walthew- there's a name I have not seen I think since browsing a trio of his in college... erm.
Anyway. Interesting list.
Scowcroft (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/July01/britinst.htm) also mentions
Vallier, John (1920-91) - piano concerto in A minor
for instance?

And Rubbra's early concerto (and fragments of, including, I was told, one of his few forays into serial music?...), if they still exist, I think remain unrecorded (and may need completion?) but may also (at least for his fans, who admittedly, on this forum, may number in the half-dozens :)- me included though!) - be worth the effort.

Adding to a list and wondering...
*The Musical Times of January 1 1880 mentions a performance in November '79 of a piano concerto in C by Mr. Shakespeare (most likely the composer William Shakespeare 1849-1931, I think...)

Philip Scowcroft is always mentioning interesting sounding music by unsung British composers. The only trouble is he just reads about it and regurgitates what he's read. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred he has never seen the scores nor knows of their whereabouts. Useless, really.

Here I'm guessing his source is Lettice Buxton's article (The Musical Times, Dec., 1991, vol. 132, no. 1786, p. 599); if Buxton is still alive, one can perhaps write the author... (yes, yes, I know, or I could.)

It would be very nice if you did, Eric.

Re Buxton's article: ordinarily even a non-JStor subscriber would have access to the first page but it is only a one page article so not even that. Still, it should be at the Cornell U library and I do go there though not as often. Hopefully article has information on -who- the author is :). Will remember to check.

Thanks, Eric.  Incidentally, in June 2010 Giles wrote: "No one has mentioned Kathleen Bruckshaw 1879-1935 who wrote a good piano concerto."  How do we know it was good? Who says so, and why should we believe whoever says so if we have not access to the score? So...

I don't know. Actually, I don't even know how it is we know Liszt was one of the best pianists of all time, even though I am willing to credit it; but that question is philosophically analogous and connected at most if at all (beyond the somewhat common language, and even then, different dialects thereof so not really that either) in - probably odd ways, again at most.

Well whoever wrote the piece on Bruckshaw in the 1950s Grove must have known something about her piano concerto??   What really puzzled me, when the 1980s edition of Grove was published, many, many of our favorite unsungs had disappeared.   I suppose it was just becuz their stars had faded and no one was playing them anymore and the powers that be said, no one will miss 'em......Much more exciting to talk about all of these new, young 20th century whipper-snappers......much is our loss.

Jerry

Quote from: Albion on Sunday 25 September 2011, 12:51

Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 25 September 2011, 12:42
Albion's thread begins: "Where next for the British interest in RPC?" - so I think it is intended to be confined to British Romantic works for piano & orchestra that have not yet been recorded.

Indeed it is, although a plea for more Rootham will always find favour with many forum members! These are certainly very interesting suggestions, Gareth, and it's good to see female representation on the list - given their idiom, it might be possible to also advocate Grace Williams' Sinfonia Concertante and Ruth Gipps' Concerto.

:)

My sincere apologies. I was blinded by enthusiasm and as such, misread the tenor of the thread......which is a very interesting one by the way.

Sincere regards,

Eric.

Just a few extra details to add to Gareth's post of yesterday dealing in more detail with a number of British Concertos - as follows:

Rosalind Ellicott: unfortunately I have lost touch with the family member who appeared to be doing so much for Rosalind's music, just after the CD of her 2nd piano trio was released. repeated requests to be updated on the progress of setting the surviving mss (which included a couple of overtures & the piano quartet) using Sibelius software, have fallen on deaf ears and I have had no contact since 2004. At the time however I did ask about the Fantasie (pno/orch) but it was not among the works that appeared to have survived although she did tell me that there were (hopefully?) more mss to be recovered from other branches of the family. The person involved, a Victoria Vowles, for reasons unknown, has now gone silent on us so perhaps the only way to reawaken this interest is for someone to record Ellicotts FIRST piano trio!!

Richard Walthew: I understand that the COMPLETE MS is in the RCM.

Charles Edward Horsley: Although the ms in the BL is missing the first few pages (of orchestral tutti mainly), I have been in touch with Richard Divall and apparently he has a complete copy of the the solo part which includes a piano reduction of the missing opening! - he has apparently edited and complete the work - so this should be ready to go - so to speak! A recording project to also include the violin concerto would be surely the way to go.

John Francis Barnett: I have recently been in touch with various family members and also have a copy of the piano part of the Op25 concerto which I would strongly recommend - however the problem rest as ever with the orchestral parts etc. Kistner have confirmed that they have nothing in their archive and apparently many of Barnetts mss were destroyed during the 1950's by the family.
I have though benn given a lead to a friend of the family in the US who is at present doing some research and as the concerto was performed in the US, we may have more luck here. Obviously, I will keep a close eye on this and provide further information if/when available. If all else fails here, I am sure that a reconstruction of the orchestration could be done from the details and cues in the piano solo part - perhaps along the lines of Hobson's work on Moscheles 8.

QuoteWell whoever wrote the piece on Bruckshaw in the 1950s Grove must have known something about her piano concerto?? 

Not necessarily, I'm afraid. I have seen remarks (complimentary and otherwise) made in print by quite eminent musicians regarding certain "unknown" works which betray a complete ignorance of the score(s) in question.

Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 26 September 2011, 10:31

QuoteWell whoever wrote the piece on Bruckshaw in the 1950s Grove must have known something about her piano concerto?? 

Not necessarily, I'm afraid. I have seen remarks (complimentary and otherwise) made in print by quite eminent musicians regarding certain "unknown" works which betray a complete ignorance of the score(s) in question.

...not to mention the legendarily scandalous article on Rachmaninov in Grove 5 which was written by the tin-eared Rosa Newmarch (aided an abetted by Eric Blom who, at least, ought to have known better)!

the same Rosa Newmarch who, if I recall, was so helpful to Rachmaninoff's great friend Nicolai Medtner- well, that's - ironic.

QuoteIf all else fails here, I am sure that a reconstruction of the orchestration could be done from the details and cues in the piano solo part - perhaps along the lines of Hobson's work on Moscheles 8.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any news on when Zephyr Records will be releasing Hobson's performance of Moscheles' PC No. 8?

Quote from: eschiss1 on Monday 26 September 2011, 17:16
the same Rosa Newmarch who, if I recall, was so helpful to Rachmaninoff's great friend Nicolai Medtner- well, that's - ironic.

Yes, that Rosa Newmarch.  She was a 'music critic' rather than a 'musician'.  There's no doubt she knew a lot of facts about Russian (and Slovak) music and musicians but her critical faculties were distinctly suspect.  And as Sibelius said, 'no-one ever put up a statue to a critic'.

Sibelius was right only in the very very most literal sense and maybe not even then - (matter of definitions... and one of Liszt's jobs was certainly that of critic, and Schumann before he started, and Berlioz, and Thomson after, and one could go on; but one expects you may mean music critics who- well, see below- but let's grant this for the moment, fine...)

and taking the spirit perhaps rather than the letter for one part and the letter for that part...
even music critics who neither played nor composed in any "significant way" had significant, even major works ("statues" if you will) dedicated to them (at least one important work by Edmund Rubbra, I think, and others, count here- and some works composed before Sibelius wrote, too) - so- I'd say Sibelius missed the boat here.

(An earlier example though also probably after Sibelius' quote- whenever that was from - was Elgar's piano quintet, dedicated to Ernest Newman, not mostly known as a musician, that is, composer or performer.)

Quote from: eschiss1 on Monday 26 September 2011, 19:09
Sibelius was right only in the very very most literal sense and maybe not even then - (matter of definitions... and one of Liszt's jobs was certainly that of critic, and Schumann before he started, and Berlioz, and Thomson after, and one could go on; but one expects you may mean music critics who- well, see below- but let's grant this for the moment, fine...)

and taking the spirit perhaps rather than the letter for one part and the letter for that part...
even music critics who neither played nor composed in any "significant way" had significant, even major works ("statues" if you will) dedicated to them (at least one important work by Edmund Rubbra, I think, and others, count here- and some works composed before Sibelius wrote, too) - so- I'd say Sibelius missed the boat here.

(An earlier example though also probably after Sibelius' quote- whenever that was from - was Elgar's piano quintet, dedicated to Ernest Newman, not mostly known as a musician, that is, composer or performer.)

We are getting off-topic here (which is entirely my fault) but I wanted to say I thought your comment very interesting - although I suspect Sibelius was being literal (and was thinking of those who were solely critics) I acknowledge the metaphorical 'statues' you allude to.  However, my instincts still tell me that Ann Landers was basically on the money when she wrote, "Asking a writer what he thinks about critics is like asking a lamp post how it feels about dogs".   ;)

If we're restricting ourselves to unrecorded piano concertos, the Ruth Gipps concerto is coming out (already recorded, in the can, on the way to release, I gather) on Cameo this year, so... :) (ok, at least according to a Wikipedia editor. Still.. hopefully true.!)

Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 01:00
If we're restricting ourselves to unrecorded piano concertos, the Ruth Gipps concerto is coming out (already recorded, in the can, on the way to release, I gather) on Cameo this year, so... :) (ok, at least according to a Wikipedia editor. Still.. hopefully true.!)

It IS true ;D Coupled with Kenneth Leighton's Piano Concerto No.1.

I have a computer realization of the Walthew concerto, many years ago found it in a post somewhere by his grandson. As I remember, the grandson had had no idea his grandfather was a composer until he found his scores, "in the attic", I guess. Gosh that's a long time ago for this old fart. Could I post a computer realization? At least it would give an idea of what the concerto is like.

If I had any objection to computer realizations it would be hypocritical in the extreme *looks at the MIDIs folders on his various hard drives etc.* - an indirect way of expressing my vote- anyone?

Yes, please upload any relevant computer realisations - this may be the only opportunity to experience hearing certain 'unsung' works!

:)