Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Dundonnell on Monday 26 September 2011, 20:22

Title: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Dundonnell on Monday 26 September 2011, 20:22
Examples would include:

Stanley Bate:           Violin Concertos Nos. 1(1943), 2(1950) and 3(1947/50)
Arthur Butterworth: Violin Concerto(1978) (available for download from this forum)
Arnold Cooke:          Violin Concerto(1958) (available for download from this forum)
Gordon Crosse:       Violin Concertos Nos.1(1963) and No.2(1969) (I hope to be able to make No.2 available for download)
Peter Racine Fricker: Violin Concerto No.2 "Rapsodia Concertante"(1954) (available to download from this forum)
Iain Hamilton:           Violin Concerto No.2 "Amphion"(1971)
Alun Hoddinott:        Violin Concertos No.1(1961) and 2 "Mistral"(1994) (No.2 is available to download from this forum)
Joseph Holbrooke:    Violin Concerto "The Grasshopper"(1917)
Gordon Jacob:          Concerto for Violin and Strings(1953)
Daniel Jones:           Violin Concerto(1966) (available for download from this forum)
Kenneth Leighton:   Concerto for Violin and small orchestra(1952)
William Mathias:       Violin Concerto(1992)
John McCabe:           Violin Concertos No.1 "Sinfonia Concertante"(1959) and No.2(1980) (No.2 available for download from this forum)
Robert Simpson:       Violin Concerto(1959) (available to download from this forum)
Robert Still:              Violin Concerto(1969)
Grace Williams:        Violin Concerto(1950) (available to download from this forum)
William Wordsworth: Violin Concerto(1955) (available to download from this forum)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: erato on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 12:26
The Grasshopper has been issued on Naxos some months ago.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holbrooke-Violin-Concerto-The-Grasshopper/dp/B005DUW5EQ (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holbrooke-Violin-Concerto-The-Grasshopper/dp/B005DUW5EQ)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 13:10
QuoteThe Grasshopper has been issued on Naxos some months ago.

But only in the version for violin and piano. CPO are scheduled to record the orchestral version, probably early next year.
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: erato on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 13:12
I didn't notice that (but should have). Thanks.
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 18:45
I don't know anthing further about these ones, but what about:

Ethel Barns: Violin concerto (1907)
Anthony Burgess: Violin concerto (1979)
Richard Chignell: Violin concerto op.20 (1920)
Norman Demuth: Violin concerto (1937)
Richard Hall: Violin concerto (1939)
Wilfred Josephs: Violin concerto op.169 (1992)
Robin Milford: Violin concerto (1937)
William Arundel Orchard: Violin concerto
Patric Standford: Violin concerto (1979)
Robert Still: Violin concerto (1969)
Ian Whyte: Violin concerto


Does anyone know anything about performances, scores and/or recordings?

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 23:55
I think the Standford while published 1979 dates from 1975 (http://soundandmusic.org/thecollection/node/68090)?
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Dundonnell on Wednesday 28 September 2011, 00:46
Quote from: violinconcerto on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 18:45
I don't know anthing further about these ones, but what about:

Ethel Barns: Violin concerto (1907)
Anthony Burgess: Violin concerto (1979)
Richard Chignell: Violin concerto op.20 (1920)
Norman Demuth: Violin concerto (1937)
Richard Hall: Violin concerto (1939)
Wilfred Josephs: Violin concerto op.169 (1992)
Robin Milford: Violin concerto (1937)
William Arundel Orchard: Violin concerto
Patric Standford: Violin concerto (1979)
Robert Still: Violin concerto (1969)
Ian Whyte: Violin concerto


Does anyone know anything about performances, scores and/or recordings?

Best,
Tobias

Robert Still's concerto I listed in my initial post. The Wilfred Josephs concerto of 1992 has never been performed(source: the website of the Wilfred Josephs Society). Some of these composers are completely new to me :)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Wednesday 28 September 2011, 05:17
Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 27 September 2011, 23:55
I think the Standford while published 1979 dates from 1975 (http://soundandmusic.org/thecollection/node/68090)?

You are right, thanks for mentioning! I will correct that on my site.


QuoteRobert Still's concerto I listed in my initial post.

Oups, sorry. I checked my first entries with your list, but then I just typed in...
So if you do not even know some names from the list, they must be pretty unsung. I expect no chance to hear anything of that so.

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Wednesday 28 September 2011, 23:11
I noticed a recording of the David Harries violin concerto in the BMIC sound and music archive. That obviously means that there was a recorded performance in the past and that gives the possibility that someone else than the BMIC archive has a recording. So anyone of you know something about that?

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: albion on Friday 30 September 2011, 22:38
I would certainly hope that now Dutton have set another Stanley Bate concerto down for release (the 2nd Piano Concerto, with its coruscating toccata-like opening movement) they will turn their attention to his other concertante works, particularly the 3rd Violin Concerto which had a (very brief) vogue following its premiere in June, 1953. The Telegraph gave it "a warm welcome, testimony to the accessibility of the composer's style. It is truly a violinist's concerto, with melodious rhapsodising and great opportunities for display." The BBC sourly dismissed it as "... a worthless piece of undistinguished pastiche ... Bate's mind is totally devoid of distinction."

In case anybody missed the broadcast performance earlier this year, the Violin Concerto by Irish composer Ina Boyle (1889-1967) should definitely be considered a strong candidate for commercial release - how I would love to hear more of her music. The broadcast (beautifully performed) is in the British music downloads section.

:)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Dundonnell on Friday 30 September 2011, 23:19
I think that Dutton is interested in one of Bate's Violin Concertos (if I remember correctly something I was told ;D).

The Boyle IS a really beautiful work :)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 02 October 2011, 14:18
I am a great fan of Ina Boyle's music - what little I've heard - and would love the chance to look at some of her MSS preserved (I think) in Trinity College, Dublin [please correct me, if I'm wrong].
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 17 October 2011, 04:37
Richard Chignell? Musicsack lists a Robert Chignell (1882 Romsey - 1939 London) but no Richard, but that doesn't mean there was no such person (and Baker/Remy lists a violin concerto by Robert- I am guessing a typo... still- not necessarily)... what were or are his vitae?
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Monday 17 October 2011, 05:28
Thanks for noticing and mentioning the typo! I checked that again and I found the reason for my typo in the 1928 book "The violin concerto" by Frederic B Emery. He lists a "Richard Chignell born in Romsey in 1882", so I am pretty sure he meant Robert Chignell. Changed that on my website.
I don't know anything about him or his work, therefore it would be so interesting to listen to his violin concerto. But I guess there are more likely candidates for a performances than him. By the way I compiling the additional information "publisher, orchestration, world premiere, movement titles" for all British violin works right know. I am pretty sure I need some additional information, when I am ready... *coughcough*... I will drop a line here when I am ready (hopefully this week)

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: patmos.beje on Monday 17 October 2011, 18:39
What about Eugene Goossens' Phantasy Concerto Op 63 of 1948?

If the Chandos Goossens series continues, as I understand it will with Sir Andrew Davis, hopefully it may receive its premiere recording.

Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 17 October 2011, 18:42
I -think- - I can't "decode" the listing I read to my satisfaction- that the Goossens has received a broadcast performance (mentioned on CADENSA), but I don't know of any commercial recording either.
Ah right.  7 September, 1960, Proms, Tessa Robbins, violin, BBC Symphony/composer conducting (world premiere), 36'20" including announcements, now on Chester Music Limited promotional CDs (which is a strange sort of entry in Cadensa ??!?) (waited 12 years for its premiere though- well, not unprecedented, admittedly, some works even of conductor/composers wait longer.)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Monday 17 October 2011, 23:02
The Goossens Phantasy concerto is long available on an "Composer's Domain" CD. You can kind all details on my website at the Goossens entry. You did not have to wait so many years for it... ;-)

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: patmos.beje on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 01:02
Is it possible to purchase a CD of Goossens' Phantasy Concerto?  If so please could you clarify how one goes about this.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 05:22
Quote from: patmos.beje on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 01:02
Is it possible to purchase a CD of Goossens' Phantasy Concerto?

It is, I did so.
"Composer's Domain" isn't a "Real record label" if I remember correctly, just someone selling broadcast performances. I once ordered three CDs from them, one of them the Goossens recording. Due to this "not really a real record label"-thing I wasn't unable to find the webiste of them right now. There is also the chance that it is gone already. Maybe any of the others here knows something about them?

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: semloh on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 05:58
I had no success in tracking down "Composers Domain" so it looks like they have gone, and I can't find any recorded performance of the Goossens' Phantasy Violin Concerto - only the earlier piano concerto. Pity!  :(
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: albion on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 08:05
Quote from: semloh on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 05:58I can't find any recorded performance of the Goossens' Phantasy Violin Concerto - only the earlier piano concerto. Pity!  :(

Last year Ralph Couzens stated that, with regard to series begun by Richard Hickox

Both Holst and Goossens are being continued with Sir Andrew Davis and various orchestras.

Hopefully when the latter is resumed, this Phantasy Concerto, Op.63 will be scheduled.

:)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: patmos.beje on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 09:50

As the Goossens Phantasy Violin Concerto was radio broadcast and therefore in the public domain is it possible to load it up to the British Music Broadcast section?  It would make a great addition to that section.

The earlier Phantasy Concerto for piano has been recorded by Chandos.  It took a few hearings before it made an impact but it is a fine piece.

Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 11:17
Quote from: patmos.beje on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 09:50

As the Goossens Phantasy Violin Concerto was radio broadcast and therefore in the public domain

I don't want to be nitpicking, but it is wrong in copyright law that everything that was ever broadcasted is now public domain. The rights to use this recording for more than a personal use are still at the copyright holders.
And to put a recording online says that one holds the rights of it. In that case one can also produce CDs of it and sell them. Many here (or in other fora) do the first and feel good, but would pretty likely say that selling an own burned CD-R commercially would be illegal. Which I think is a misinterpretation - both things are illegal.
Of course I can understand the attraction of the download folders and don't want to impair this. I just wanted to exlain my point of view and why I don't put recordings online. Due to the fact that I don't own copyrights for any recording in my archive, I just cannot put any recording online.

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 11:47
Understood. What we are doing here is following commonly tolerated practice and the moment that changes then so will our policy.
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: semloh on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 21:30
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 11:47
Understood. What we are doing here is following commonly tolerated practice and the moment that changes then so will our policy.

Yes, indeed.   :)

On-line broadcasting is blurring the boundaries that were at least thought to exist in law, and all those issues regarding the copyright status of what is broadcast, as well as of the broadcast itself, and the role of funding and profit-making - with respect to bot the original broadcast and subsequent re-broadcasts by others - are making it too difficult to establish a relevant and sustainable legal position. In short, the law is struggling to make itself meaningful in the digital age! Until a legal precedent is set to the contrary, making available radio broadcasts of non-commercially available material, free of charge, can - I believe - be regarded as acceptable.  :)

I could go on  ::) (e.g. about how the law would take a very dim view of any effort, at this late stage, to prosecute someone making radio recordings available free of charge, and how difficult it would be to establish that they had suffered any harm) but I think this should be in the "Copyright and Upsetting Applecarts" folder.

:) :)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Mykulh on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:03
I am not overly concerned with copyright issues in this age of ours where the "bank robbers" are the bankers rather than the holdup men. What worries me is that making all this rare music easily available is that it might be a disincentive to record producers to record rare repertoire if they can be obtained in other ways without cost. Just some food for thought.

Michael
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: violinconcerto on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:24
Quotecommonly tolerated practice

A short experience I made about this: I think this practice looks like commonly tolerated because no copyright holder is going for legal action so far (for what reasons ever). But a year or so ago I received an e-mail out of nowhere from a composer threatening legal action if I not immediately delete her name and composition from my website and send the recording back which I own in my archive. Yes, you understand right: On my website was just her name, basic biographical data and the *information* that there is a recording of her work. I did not copy my recording at any time - which I received from an radio archive legally (and signed a copyright form about the usage) - I just had the recording in my archive.
I did not agree because I could not accept and understand this behaviour and asked for opinions in the mail list of the IASA (International Association of Sound and Audiovisual Archives) of which I am a member. To my scare not all members (and all professionals in this topic) agreed with my position and advised me to get legal advice. The discussion ran high and there were several opinions stating that even mentioning the name would violate the moral rights of the person.
Whatever. Finally I received a message from the lawyer of the radio station (where I got the recording from) who told me that she will handle all further legal action and advised me to forward all upcoming messages from the composer to her. After that I did not hear anything from the composer nor the lawyer anymore. I sent a message a few weeks later to the lawyer and asked about the state of affairs, but received no answer.

To cut a long story short: I think you all feel pretty well with the whole "put it online" thing, because there is nobody out there caring about this right now. I - in contrary - met someone who cared and I got just a happy end, because I really did nothing bad.

Best,
Tobias
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: albion on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:32
Quote from: Mykulh on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:03
I am not overly concerned with copyright issues in this age of ours where the "bank robbers" are the bankers rather than the holdup men. What worries me is that making all this rare music easily available is that it might be a disincentive to record producers to record rare repertoire if they can be obtained in other ways without cost. Just some food for thought.

Michael

With respect to contributors (including myself), often the recordings made of broadcasts are not of the best quality and many of the performances quite patently cannot be regarded as the 'last word' on a particular work. Moreover, it is impossible to imagine that even a tiny percentage of the huge wealth of music now represented in the downloads section would ever have been on any recording company's 'to do' list.

:)

Quote from: violinconcerto on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:24a year or so ago I received an e-mail out of nowhere from a composer threatening legal action if I not immediately delete her name and composition from my website and send the recording back which I own in my archive. Yes, you understand right: On my website was just her name, basic biographical data and the *information* that there is a recording of her work. I did not copy my recording at any time - which I received from an radio archive legally (and signed a copyright form about the usage) - I just had the recording in my archive.

Absolutely bonkers - she should have been grateful that anybody cared enough about her music to want to own a recording.

::)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: albion on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:46
Luckily, I don't envisage getting a threatening communication from Ethel Smyth, Ina Boyle or Ruth Gipps

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMK4y0IWK-uUGOUwOQbLgMdDazcUZP8wtyD8Ksz4J5EUzqoQwC)

but with Halloween coming up, you can't be too careful, so I'll make sure the delicate crockery is put away ...

(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17166/1121004-poltergeist_large.jpg)

:o


Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Dundonnell on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:56
Indeed I would have thought it just as likely that members of a site such as, this after hearing a recording (possibly of not very great quality ;D) of a particular composition which appealed to them, would be as likely to demand a modern recording on cd :)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Dundonnell on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 22:59
If anyone thinks that just because I have acquired Peter Racine Fricker's Symphony No.3 from this site and am about to launch his Symphonies Nos. 4 and 5 here as well that I am any less likely to be seeking/hoping/praying for a company to record these works they are very much mistaken ;D ;D
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: albion on Tuesday 18 October 2011, 23:37
Absolutely, Colin. Whilst it is undoubtedly valuable to have the chance to hear John Poole's 1978 recording of Holbrooke's The Bells, I don't think that anybody is going to pretend that this is preferable to (or any substitute for) a first-class modern studio recording, or that Stanley Bate's own performance of his Piano Concerto No.2 is in any way a threat to the prospects of the hotly-anticipated Dutton release.

:)
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Simon B on Thursday 08 May 2014, 20:37
How about William 'Billy' REED's own Violin Concerto- must be worth a listen. surely?
Title: Re: Unrecorded British Violin Concertos of the 20th Century
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 08 May 2014, 22:11
This thread dates back to the period before the change in UC's remit when the discussion of non-Romantic music was permitted, so it is no longer appropriate to post here. Please see the new thread on Reed:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5012.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5012.0.html)