I have come across this news from Channel Classics:
MUSIC DIRECTOR ROBERT SPANO AND ATLANTA SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA has performed the WORLD PREMIERE OF DEJAN LAZIC'S NEW TRANSCRIPTION OF BRAHMS'S CONCERTO FOR VIOLIN. Officially called Brahms 3rd Piano Concerto.
Mr. Lazic had long felt the beloved D-Major Violin Concerto would work beautifully as a piano concerto. Following his first collaboration with the ASO a little over a year ago, Mr. Spano asked him if there was something out of the ordinary he wanted to do with this Orchestra. Mr. Lazic shared his idea, and the ASO offered to perform the world premiere performances of this great work in a new setting.
It was a great success in Atlanta. Channel was there to record the concerts and will bring this release out in the beginning of the new year.
Well, why not? We've had the Rachmaninoff 2nd symphony turned into the 5th piano concerto. Beethoven's violin concerto transcribed (by Beethoven) for piano and recently for clarinet. Khachaturian's violin concerto is done on flute. And on it goes. It will be interesting, and at least it's not one more recording of the violin version of the violin concerto.
Yes - why not indeed. It may be very interesting. And potentially very beautiful.
I guess I don't have a problem with it as long as the piano writing is Brahmsian in style. What with beloved favorites such as Franck's Vioin Sonata coming out in an arrangement for cello just so Yo Yo Ma can play it, this isn't exactly a big surprise. Although I do have a gripe with calling it the "3rd Piano Concerto". I'd even have the same reservation if Brahms had done the arrangement himself.
Yeah it's silly to call it that, especially "officially" (same with the 'Rach 5th', especially as that's not even a concerto but an arrangement of a symphony). In Beethoven's case I don't see a problem calling it HIS 6th, as it was his own transcription.
It's just advertising hype a la Rambo III. Cue gravelly voice: "You thrilled to his First, you swooned to his Second, NOW gasp at his Third!".
Actually I don't mind either, I find these things fascinating exercises. But, of course, there's that little voice saying: why on earth didn't they put that time and effort into promoting one of the scores of real romantic piano concertos which are never now performed? But then I know the answer - no need for the gravelly voice!
Yes, it must be potentially beautiful music, as long as Lazic's piano transcription is Brahmsian in style.
But what would Brahms have thought of this himself? Maybe he would smile and suggest to celebrate Chopin's bicentenary anniversary in 2010 by transforming his opus 11 into an official VC and say: now that will be a real surprise, because so far nobody knew he could play the violin as well. 8)
I too have a problem with the word "official". It's not arranged by Brahms so it's not official! End of story. ???
If I remember correctly, Brahms' PC1 started out as a symphony. And in addition, when he was composing his VC, he discarded 2 movements and later incorporated them into his PC2. So, if Brahms could convert a symphony to a PC, and a VC to a PC, I do not he would have troubles converting a PC to a VC.
So far as I recall he only discarded one movement. The 2nd movement "scherzo" of PC 2 was originally intended for the VC. Speaking of "real neglected PCs", who else has gotten the Rufinatscha? We open up an entire thread on the subject, and I seem to be almost the only one who has anything to say about it! I'm thinking of recommending it to Carl Petersson.
Fantastic Allan - I can't wait to hear that !
Oops ! Sorry Alan, I mispelt your name. Too much haste !
Marcus.
Some idea of this whole project can be gained here:
http://www.channelclassics.com/dejanbrahms.html (http://www.channelclassics.com/dejanbrahms.html)
There's a couple long discussions about it, including someone from Channel taking part, on SA-CD.net's forum.
I can't say that I like the piano's rather clattery tone, but the generous extract you can hear at the site quoted in Alan's post is quite convincing.
I think the key issue will be whether the sense of struggle inherent in the VC will have been diminished in its new incarnation. If so, the effect may be an interesting damp squib...
I agree, but I expect that I'll be paying to answer the question :)
It gets a generally approving review in this month's Gramophone.
BBC radio's CD Review got it about right the other week: the problem with this transcription is that the piano-writing is simply not Brahmsian - it's nothing like awkward enough and gives no sense of the sort of struggle found in Brahms' true PCs. In fact it's nearer to the sort of thing Rachmaninov might have come up. So the effect is to replace the difficulty and strain which the VC poses the violinist with much more grateful piano-writing. The result is to neuter the piece somewhat. It's clever - but it's not Brahms.
This is an idea that is in the air. Steven Hough mentioned this evening that he is toying with the idea of making a PC out of Tchaikovsky's VC.
With all that genuine unrecorded and unperformed piano repertoire out there, why do we need these second-rate transcriptions? Is this more about the transcribers' egos than about the music they're mauling?
It's also cheaper and easier. If you just transcribe the piano, you can simply use the same orchestra accompaniment that's both probably pretty cheap to rent (or the orchestra has in their library), as well as music the orchestra knows well so there's less rehearsal time needed, etc etc
I like transcriptions, personally, and certainly don't see how it's "mauling" the music.
"Mauling" might be too strong. But in the case of the Brahms VC transcription, the work simply becomes too comfortable - like a lion tamed. In my view the work should be like a beast which needs taming rather than a toothless, attractive pet. Perhaps I should have said that this particular transcription is no longer capable of mauling the performers!!
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 28 February 2010, 14:15
With all that genuine unrecorded and unperformed piano repertoire out there, why do we need these second-rate transcriptions?
I couldn't agree more. This is the height of decadent self-indulgence in music making. What
is the point of it?
I really despair sometimes.
Anybody heard the trumpet transcription of the Tchaikovsky VC? I forget who did it, but I've heard it.
This may sound glib, but I don't mean it to, because Gareth's comment resonates for me...
In a world where "gender reassignment" happens every week, instrument reassignment is just plain going to happen, whether by the Swingle Singers, Wendy Carlos, or trumpet virtuosi whom Tchaikovsky didn't happen to write for.
Homo ludens will always find ways to metamorphose existing surfaces. The element of play that makes possible a recast of Tchaikovsky's VC also makes possible the development of technologies such as the ones that make almost all discussion on this forum possible.
One of our roles is to help attach the ephemeral to something with a longer shelf life. To me, as I dare say to other members of this forum, the shelf life of western art music over the last few centuries ranks up there near the top along with 5th-century BC Athenian drama and geometry or Renaissance art (perspective) and algebra.
Quote from: JimL on Monday 01 March 2010, 00:33
Anybody heard the trumpet transcription of the Tchaikovsky VC? I forget who did it, but I've heard it.
Was it Sergei Nakariakov?
I've never heard it. But I love the clarinet transcription of the Beethoven VC...
Schumann's String Quartets no1 op41 & no3 op41 have been transcribed for string orchestra by Jean-Philippe Tremblay, and released on Naxos (#8.570133).
I was initially hesitant to buy this disc, but I was glad that I did, as it gives the quartets another dimension, and when transcriptions are done as well as this, I am happy to outlay the cash. But I doubt if I would bother with the Trumpet version of Tchaikowsky's VC JimL ! You would have to be a trumpet music lover I think, just as you would have to be a DBass fan to buy the Grieg Sonata transcription.
Marcus
The Brahms "3rd" got a critical mauling in International Piano this month...
I've just heard the 2nd movement, broadcast on (Dutch) Radio 4. It gave me a strange feeling. The immense tension given by the solo violin in the original concerto has completely vanished. The piano writing is not bad at all, but it isn't Brahmsian. Having said that, I confess that I'm going to order the CD...
It's a curiosity only and will, I predict, die a death - as it should.
I fully agree with you.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 30 April 2010, 14:05
It's a curiosity only and will, I predict, die a death - as it should.
Perhaps you are right, I would've said on Thursday - but yesterday I bought the wretched thing, and now I have to say: you're
probably right.
Let it die an unnoticed death now, so that in 100 years our musicologists of then will dig up the piece and pronounce it an unsung rarity from the previous (from their point of view) turn of the century.
"For I am full of it", and not ashamed of that one bit. What a lovely idea, what a lovely transcription! I think it might go wrong if you take all too seriously, and I have to admit: it
is rather tasteless to print "Piano Concerto No. 3" on the cover.
If the piece sounds not fully Brahms to some people, that is because they know the originals (the VC and both PCs) too well. I'm not going to propagate my views on transcription here, because I've done that already elsewhere on this forum. I
am going to say that I can recommend this CD to anyone interested in music off the beaten path, Brahms, and piano concertos.
And now I'm going to apologise for digging up an old topic from the vaults of this forum and saying something that's probably not even very interesting... ;D
No apology necessary, I'm sure. You have summed it all up pretty well...