Since I am not yet a convert, perhaps members could recommend three CDs of Hovhaness' music for me to start my investigation of this composers' output...
Magnificat, Mysterious Mountain, Mount St. Helen's Symphony. Great stuff!!
In addition to symphony no 2 "Mysterious Mountain" and symphony no 50 "Mount St. Helens", I would also recommend Crystal Records CD811 "Hovhaness Treasures" : a cd of the composer's favourite works, includes symphony no 31, Starry Night, Celestial Canticle and symphony no 49 "Christmas Symphony.
cheers
Dennis
Mysterious Mountain is as obvious as it gets.
I too love the Mount St Helens symphony as well.
My favorite piece of his though is perhaps a short piece for trumpet and strings called "Prayer of St Gregory". It's just beautiful.
I do love a lot of music by the composer though. One simple start would be to get the two Hovhaness collections on Delos, each of which are two discs.
Supplement it with a couple of the Naxos releases, perhaps the two that have the guitar concerti, or the one with Symphony #4 (which also has #53 and the Prayer on the Delos collections, granted....)
Aaaargghh, the brickbats start flying. But my advice, Alan, is to remain unconverted. We are, alas, on this earth for a short time and there are so many glorious things out there awaiting exploration to justify placing Hovhaness to one side. I'm not saying he is a 'bad' or 'inferior' composer, whatever those labels might mean. Only that there are so many others who are far more rewarding. I've tried with Hovhaness, but after umpteen symphonies that to my ears all sound pretty much the same and which time after time go through the same motions, I came to the conclusion that there isn't much to 'try at' since there's not much there of genuine musical substance.
There - I've had my say, and Hovhaness enthusiasts (all, in my experience, men with big hi fi systems) can shun me off the planet.
The three works I have mentioned will tell you if you should go any further. I love those three and a few of the strings only pieces, but am luke warm to the rest. The man wrote way too much! But, do give those a sample.
OK, thanks! I get the picture and will report back in due course...
I enjoy Hovhaness's music a lot, there are some impressive works like the 'Vishnu' Symphony as well as some rather weak works like the 'Christmas Symphony'. Generally the later symphonies are less interesting than the earlier ones (c pre No 25), with a few exceptions (Mount St Helens Symphony).
PS I am not a hi-fi enthusiast and don't own an impressive hi-fi system either!
I believe our departed (but not deceased!) friend Avrohom said it best on the old Raff Forum when he said (more or less) that the best work by Hovanhess was the one you just heard.
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Tuesday 24 April 2012, 20:50
...after umpteen symphonies that to my ears all sound pretty much the same and which time after time go through the same motions, I came to the conclusion that there isn't much to 'try at' since there's not much there of genuine musical substance.
Agreed. Get Mysterious Mountain (Reiner/Chicago is as good as it will ever get) and you've heard all you need of Hovhannes. I can't stand Mt. St Helens. For all I know he was a very serious man, but his music is just so over blown, pretentious...a bunch of humbug. I'm sure that he has his fans. But why spend my time & money on this composer when there's still so much Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius and others that I haven't gotten to!
I'd add Symphony No.6 "Celestial Gate" to the "short list" of previous recs, - but believe Reiner's
recording of Mysterious Mountain is all one really needs to gain a fair appreciation of this composer
(in agreement with mbhaub).
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 24 April 2012, 21:53
OK, thanks! I get the picture and will report back in due course...
Hovhaness has an amazing talent for creating atmospheres ranging from dark and dramatic (e.g.
St Helens)through to delicate and beautiful (e.g.
Harp Concerto), and I could make recommendations (I can't help but mention his
Guitar Concerto) ...... but I'll wait for your report, Alan! :)
Quote from: mbhaub on Wednesday 25 April 2012, 00:13
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Tuesday 24 April 2012, 20:50
...after umpteen symphonies that to my ears all sound pretty much the same and which time after time go through the same motions, I came to the conclusion that there isn't much to 'try at' since there's not much there of genuine musical substance.
Agreed. Get Mysterious Mountain (Reiner/Chicago is as good as it will ever get) and you've heard all you need of Hovhannes. I can't stand Mt. St Helens. For all I know he was a very serious man, but his music is just so over blown, pretentious...a bunch of humbug. I'm sure that he has his fans. But why spend my time & money on this composer when there's still so much Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius and others that I haven't gotten to!
Hovhaness has a very distinctive sound, but the sheer variety of musical genres in his opus list calls into question the claim that once you've heard
Mysterious Mountain "you've heard all you need of Hovhaness". A single symphony can hardly represent the rest of his symphonies, his choral works, concertos, and chamber music and so on - which you apparently think are not worth listening to.
I am a lifelong "Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius" fan, but we are talking here about
Unsung Composers, and among these Hovhaness is a significant figure who deserves to be remembered for more than a single symphony from an output amounting to over 400 very diverse compositions.
I have been out all evening and therefore unable to reply until now.
I would concur with a lot of what has already been said :) I find Hovhaness a very strange composer to assess or rate. Clearly he was fanatical about/obsessed with the history, traditions, religion of Armenia (his father's 'country') and the sad fate of the Armenians in the early 20th century meant so much to him that the understandable desire to celebrate those traditions underpins so much of his music. So too, of course, in later life, did the musical traditions he imbibed from Japan, Korea, and India. It is often easy to mock the spiritual convictions which Hovhaness espoused but I have no reason to doubt the man's sincerity.
Whether this makes, however, for "good music" is another matter. At the last count I had 27 of Hovhaness's 67 symphonies on disc. And, frankly, trying to differentiate between them is not at all easy. There is, as has been said, an essential 'sameness' about so many of his compositions. "Heard one, heard'em all" may be somewhat unfair but there is more than a grain of truth in the assertion.
At the same time, I must confess that to sit back, late at night, and bathe in the warm glow of the Hovhaness string sound and those grand brass chorales is definitely a pleasurable experience. The issue is that I could pluck blindfold any Hovhaness cd off my shelves and be guaranteed to get that effect.
There is certainly a case to be made for the Symphony No.2 "Mysterious Mountain" (the most recorded Hovhaness symphony) and the spectacular eruptions of Symphony No.50 "Mount St. Helens or indeed most of those already mentioned. Were I in your position, looking to dip my toes into the warm bath which is the Hovhaness sound world ;D, I would go for the cheapest option and try the three Naxos cds-Symphony No.22 "City of Light"/Cello Concerto; Symphony No.60 "To the Appalachian Mountains"/Guitar Concerto No.1; Symphony No.63 "Loon Lake"/Guitar Concerto No.2....but that would give you two guitar concertos (which may not be to your taste) and two of the later symphonies (which, as has been correctly stated, are not perhaps quite as effective as some of the earlier ones).
Sorry, that probably wasn't much help ;D
Quote from: semloh on Wednesday 25 April 2012, 01:06
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 24 April 2012, 21:53
OK, thanks! I get the picture and will report back in due course...
Hovhaness has an amazing talent for creating atmospheres ranging from dark and dramatic (e.g. St Helens)through to delicate and beautiful (e.g. Harp Concerto), and I could make recommendations (I can't help but mention his Guitar Concerto) ...... but I'll wait for your report, Alan! :)
Sorry, Colin.....the "Harp Concerto" ??? ???
I don't seem to have it in my recently posted catalogue ::) Does it go by another name ???
Hovhaness
Concerto for Harp and String Orchestra, op. 267
Kondanassis, harp
Flanders Fiamminghi Orchestra
Werthen, conductor
Available on SACD
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Alan-Hovhaness/dp/B00004S8A8/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335319831&sr=8-1-spell (http://www.amazon.com/Music-Alan-Hovhaness/dp/B00004S8A8/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335319831&sr=8-1-spell)
No questions that such a large output is hard to sort through.
I would add to the list of suggestions his 7th Concerto for Orchestra, a Louisville/First Edition production and the first piece to gain him wide attention, a concerto for piano and strings Lousadzak, meaning "The Coming of the Light." This first appeared as a 78 rpm set.
The baritone horn/wind version of his 29th Symphony is available but not the full orchestra version, which I should post. I heard it live when the Minnesota Orchestra presented it at a runout concert in Rochester. I took my daughter Alexandra, then twelve. Hovhaness sat directly in front of us in the Mayo Auditorium. Alexandra was greatly impressed to meet a real, live composer who wrote symphonies, and he returned the compliment with great seriousness as if she had been the critic for one of the Twin Cities papers. I think he often wrote the same piece over and over again. And sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. A lot of misses but then a lot of hits.
Incidently, the Naxos disc of 'City of Light' is the same recording as the Delos one, available on the aforementioned Collection Vol. 1 (...though now that I look at Amazon, it appears to be rare enough that three sellers are selling it for $45+, though the other one can be had for a reasonable price).
I wanna reiterate about #4 though -- it's for wind ensemble and is a fantastic piece...the Naxos disc is great, as is the Mercury disc under Fennell/Eastman that couples Giannini and Gould with it.
Quote from: Dundonnell on Wednesday 25 April 2012, 01:34
Quote from: semloh on Wednesday 25 April 2012, 01:06
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 24 April 2012, 21:53
OK, thanks! I get the picture and will report back in due course...
Hovhaness has an amazing talent for creating atmospheres ranging from dark and dramatic (e.g. St Helens)through to delicate and beautiful (e.g. Harp Concerto), and I could make recommendations (I can't help but mention his Guitar Concerto) ...... but I'll wait for your report, Alan! :)
Sorry, Colin.....the "Harp Concerto" ??? ???
I don't seem to have it in my recently posted catalogue ::) Does it go by another name ???
It's Op.267, Colin -
Concerto for Harp & Strings (1973) (available on a Telarc CD)
.... one of 22 concertos listed in my discography. :)
Quote from: Amphissa on Wednesday 25 April 2012, 03:13
Hovhaness
Concerto for Harp and String Orchestra, op. 267
Kondanassis, harp
Flanders Fiamminghi Orchestra
Werthen, conductor
Available on SACD
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Alan-Hovhaness/dp/B00004S8A8/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335319831&sr=8-1-spell (http://www.amazon.com/Music-Alan-Hovhaness/dp/B00004S8A8/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335319831&sr=8-1-spell)
Apologies Amphissa - I didn't see that you had already answered Colin's query! ;D
Thanks to both Amphissa and Semloh for answering my question and thereby correcting my oversight :) No idea how I missed it-well, I do really (just too many works and therefore easy to miss one ;D). Anyway....now added to the catalogue.
I am a sucker for his 1970 work, "And God Created Great Whales."
This "concerto" for whale sounds and orchestra really packs a punch - in the manner of, say, a Tintagel or a Fingal's Cave, in its feeling of the power of the deep. And the actual whales communicating with each other are touching to hear, especially considering the majesty of these wonderful creatures who always live in peril from man's plundering. I find it all a testament to their lives and, also, a compelling piece of music.
I love that harp disc as well. His style lends itself very well for that instrument, unsurprisingly.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 24 April 2012, 17:45
Since I am not yet a convert, perhaps members could recommend three CDs of Hovhaness' music for me to start my investigation of this composers' output...
I have several discs of this composer's music, but it all sounds much the same, and I have resolved not to buy any more. There is nothing wrong with it, but it tends to be a bit bland and shapeless. It has been said that "Hovhaness comes from a small planet where it always Christmas and where there are no bad sounds". Indeed, I find that there is even a Christmas Symphony, Symphony No. 49, Opus 356. His Symphony No. 22, Opus 236, is titled City of Light, and the 2nd movement is called Angel of Light, and is "a memory of a childhood vision I had ... I was always affected by Christmas". So my recommendation would be to avoid the mystical works and try something more formal, such as the Prelude and Quadruple Fugue, Opus 128.
It seems most of us either love or hate Hovhaness' music. Perhaps not quite those extremes for everyone, but I don't see much indifference. I confess I'm in the "love" category. I've listened to it, performed it, and enjoyed it for decades. That being said, yes, there is a tremendous amount of seeming repetition and note-spinning. Part of that is due to the modes he chose to work in, which have very distinctive colors and progressions. I think there's a lot of subtlety in his best writing, though there's also a discomfort with, and rejection of, the traditional inner workings of forms such as concerto and symphony, though he retained the titles and fashioned them to his own ends.
Personally, my favorites are:
Concerti for Orchestra Nos. 1 & 7
The Holy City
Visionary Landscapes, for piano
Twelve Armenian Folksongs, for piano
the final movement of Symphony No. 20, titled "Grand Final Processional" (a knockout piece of grandeur!)
There's much more that I enjoy, but I freely admit I don't listen to Hovhaness every day, or even every week!
Personally, I find that I 'have it in my head', if you know what I mean, that I like Hovhaness very much, and seem to keep buying his music, but with a few exceptions, I find it a little disappointing when I listen to it. I much prefer his miniatures or larger works with shorter movements. The many works for strings like the Armenian Rhapsodies, or some of his piano works are about the right amount and right style of Hovhaness for me I think.
Hovhaness has different 'phases' in his symphonic sound worlds. In the late 1940s and earlier 1950s his music was sparsely triadic with color chords. In the late 1950s or early 1960s he discovered a way to use half-diminished seventh chords without sounding like Wagner. There is a phase of about 10 symphonies that unfold in these lush half diminished progressions. IIRC these include Symphony 15, op. 199 ('Silver Pilgrimage'), in the traditional four movements, and the choral/orchestral Symphony 24, op. 273 ('Majnun'), one of Hovhaness's most ambitious works, in two parts, together lasting about 50 minutes. In the mid 1960s Hovhanness apparently tired of the half-diminished sonority and started using aleatory passages as well as occasional Japanese modes in his scores. After Symphony 2, I would recommend works from the early 1960s, half-diminished phase, as being quite approachable.
Further on Hovhaness...
Regarding what I'm calling Hovhanass's 1940s-50s phase, besides Symphony 2 ("Mysterious Mountain") I would recommend Symphony 9 ("St. Varten"), a work lasting 45 minutes or more.
Speaking of Symphony 2, it's worth mentioning that Hovhaness revised this symphony after Reiner recorded it in 1958 (the revised score was published 1962). As good as the Reiner/Chicago recording is, more recent performances will be presenting a different score. I have not had a chance to compare the two scores directly, but my impression from listening is that substantial cuts were made.
chill319 - thanks for these insights. It hadn't crossed my mind that there may be phases in Hovhaness' composing ( ::)) so this is interesting. Since I am a fan of his music, I really ought to know more about it. ;D
My only recommendation would be: DON'T BOTHER!
Quote from: Delicious Manager on Sunday 29 April 2012, 00:09
My only recommendation would be: DON'T BOTHER!
With respect, I don't think it helps to simply say 'don't bother' when you are talking about a composer with 400+ compositions, many of which are widely praised and oft recorded (even if some people feel that he has only one voice).
If someone asked me for a recommendation as to what to listen to in order to get a feel for a composer I didn't care for - say, Philip Glass - I would happily point them in the direction of a couple of key works.... satisfied that this would turn them off his music for life! ;D ;D
Although I'm tempted to agree, but with all respect, your post is remarkably unenlightening!
For anyone who thinks "all of Hovhannes sounds the same" I direct them at the sound samples for this new CD:
http://www.amazon.com/Hovhaness-Earth-Gloriae-Dei-Cantores/dp/B0074B2MUE/
Incidently, Delos apparently released a single CD compilation late last year, which includes Mysterious Mountain, Prayer of St Greogry, and God Created Great Whales:
http://www.amazon.com/American-Mystic-Hovhaness-Centennial-Collection/dp/B005KMX8DE/
For what it's worth and this may not help either much, I do not like most of his music that I have heard- but his symphony no.11 "All men are brothers" has proven an exception (and sometimes a few other works I'll try to remember. No, not because of the title(s)! )
Quote from: Delicious Manager on Sunday 29 April 2012, 00:09
My only recommendation would be: DON'T BOTHER!
Not terribly helpful. You may, of course be right, but it'd be good to know some specifics...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 29 April 2012, 09:34
Quote from: Delicious Manager on Sunday 29 April 2012, 00:09
My only recommendation would be: DON'T BOTHER!
Not terribly helpful. You may, of course be right, but it'd be good to know some specifics...
Apologies. I'm afraid I am very dismissive of Hovhaness' music. Urged on by a keen advocate who insisted I just hadn't listen to enough of Hovhaness' music, I did him the courtesy of listening to quite a lot of this composer's work, truly hoping to find one redeeming piece. I failed, sad to say. I can understand why some people like it; it is very easy on the ear and makes few intellectual or aural demands. It is also often quite colourful in its orchestration. So, it is, superficially, quite attractive.
That having been said, all of Hovhaness' music sounds more or less the same - rather like a half-decent film score, with very little structural, harmonic or thematic integrity. It is floss, pure and simple. I truly believe that, in this case, the composer has spread himself (or rather, his mediocre talant) far too thinly. If he had written, say a quarter (or even less) of the number of works he did, maybe (just maybe) there would be at least one memorable or truly remarkable piece. As it stands, I have to confess to having yet to find anything that deserves repeated listening.
Just my opinion, of course!
Quote from: Delicious Manager on Monday 30 April 2012, 12:35
Apologies. I'm afraid I am very dismissive of Hovhaness' music. ... all of Hovhaness' music sounds more or less the same - rather like a half-decent film score, with very little structural, harmonic or thematic integrity. It is floss, pure and simple. I truly believe that, in this case, the composer has spread himself (or rather, his mediocre talant) far too thinly.
Much of it (yes there are 400 works I believe) is not "floss" and Hovhaness's music certainly DOESN'T all sound "more or less the same". I've been re-discovering his music of late, and I cannot think of a SINGLE American composer whose music is more DIVERSE. For example, if you hear symphonies 9, 10 and 11, you could be forgiven for thinking they were by three different composers - you can't say that about many symphonists! 9 sounds folkish, 10 sounds ethnic Indian, and 11 is steeped in a sort of Sibelius/Vaughan Williams-like romanticism.
Quote from: Delicious Manager on Monday 30 April 2012, 12:35
If he had written, say a quarter (or even less) of the number of works he did, maybe (just maybe) there would be at least one memorable or truly remarkable piece. As it stands, I have to confess to having yet to find anything that deserves repeated listening.
I agree he wrote too much, which watered down the overall quality. But that "memorable or truly remarkable piece" for many is certainly
Mysterious Mountain (Symphony #2) which must have been recorded by at least 6 of our major orchestras (under such notables as Fritz Reiner, John Williams, Andrew Litton, Gerard Schwarz, etc). I dont think such conductors would have gone near "floss" ;)
Can I recommend giving
Mysterious Mountain serious listening - it seems to mesmerize a lot of people, and with just cause. His xylophone concerto
Fantasy on Japanese Woodprints is also very attractive, if more lightweight.
His first is also an earlier piece, from before his supposedly destroyed hundreds of pieces. I don't remember it off hand though...
But really, his music hardly "all sounds the same" any more than, say, Bach or Haydn does.
relatively speaking I would contest that and maintain that Bach and Haydn did, yes, maintain rather more variety. This is not to say that Hohvaness had none, but there are ways of discussing and - not exactly objectively measuring, but at least looking more carefully at these things than a one-off statement- Landon's work on Haydn's symphonies, the Bach cantata website, for only starters provide some interesting examples not of places to end but places to begin... sigh.