Is it pronounced as in "rubber" or "ruthless" ????
Knew a friend of his who died a few years back, and wish I remembered his answer better than I do because I think it was neither. Closer to roo than ruh, but have a vague recollection that it may have been interestingly a third alternative not immediately suggested (to me) by the spelling.
I've always wondered too! And another one: is Rootham pronounced with a "th" as in "thick", as in "that" or is it "Root-'am"?
I've always assumed it was "Rub-rer" (rhyming roughly with "rubber") - and "Root'em" (rhyming with shoot'em!!)
Edmund Rubbra's name is pronounced "Rubb-Ra" :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on Saturday 19 May 2012, 00:25
Edmund Rubbra's name is pronounced "Rubb-Ra" :)
LOL... That settles it! ;D An administrator can now close the discussion! ;D
Yes, I'm glad that settles it - I'm glad my friend was just pulling my leg.
Phew.....................
I'm fairly sure Ethel Smyth rhymed with "lithe". It is interesting how many British composers had unusual surnames and how few were called Jones, Smith, Green Brown and Chapman
Quote from: Jimfin on Sunday 20 May 2012, 02:30
I'm fairly sure Ethel Smyth rhymed with "lithe". It is interesting how many British composers had unusual surnames and how few were called Jones, Smith, Green Brown and Chapman
I recall reading somewhere (years ago now, so don't ask me where) that she pronounced it in the same manner as if it had been 'Smith' -- apparently, she said, "It's not Smythe, it's Smyth -- no final 'E'". Also, for what it's worth, Dundonnell is undoubtedly correct about the pronunciation of Rubbra; my school music master was a pupil of Rubbra's and he pronounced it that way.
Threads like these are extremely important.
I once made a fool of myself with a very badly pronounced Faure, so the more composers I can pronounce correctly, the better.
Almost worth a thread of it's own.
Thal
I'm also pretty sure it's Smyth as in 'Smith'. Can't quote chapter and verse, though.
I remember a story told by Smyth that Germans had problems pronouncing her name correctly. Instead of saying 'Smyth' they said 'Schmeiß' which means something like dirt ord mud. There is also a certain fly, in English it's called blowfly, in German Schmeißfliege, because it frequents heaps of mud. So when Ethel arrived, Brahms used to say: 'Ah, die Schmeißfliege kommt!' ;D
I can't remember why I am so sure she pronounced it "Smyth" as in "lithe", but something in her memoirs, which I read a few times, made me sure of it. Sorry, I cannot quote chapter and verse at all, as I lost the book some years ago
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 20 May 2012, 13:03
I'm also pretty sure it's Smyth as in 'Smith'. Can't quote chapter and verse, though.
... speaking of "chapter and verse," here's what may well be the
bible of composer pronunciation:
http://iowapublicradio.org/about-ipr/dictionary.html (http://iowapublicradio.org/about-ipr/dictionary.html)
I was just listening to the BBC documentary on Beecham, and John Amis pronounced Smyth as in lithe, introducing Sit Thomas telling anecdotes about the composer, whom he knew well.
Quote from: britishcomposer on Sunday 20 May 2012, 13:21
I remember a story told by Smyth that Germans had problems pronouncing her name correctly. Instead of saying 'Smyth' they said 'Schmeiß' which means something like dirt ord mud. There is also a certain fly, in English it's called blowfly, in German Schmeißfliege, because it frequents heaps of mud. So when Ethel arrived, Brahms used to say: 'Ah, die Schmeißfliege kommt!' ;D
A "Schmeissfliege" is indeed a blowfly, or bluebottle; the verb "schmeissen" today means to throw, but its older meaning was to eject faeces. 'Nuff said, maybe...
Now that is comprehensive!
Quote from: Buster on Sunday 20 May 2012, 14:14
I was just listening to the BBC documentary on Beecham, and John Amis pronounced Smyth as in lithe, introducing Sit Thomas telling anecdotes about the composer, whom he knew well.
Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between -- I just listened to this recording of Vera Brittain broadcasting in 1937 http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/suffragettes/8314.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/suffragettes/8314.shtml) introducing Dame Ethel and pronouncing it Smyth with a long 'y' but an unvoiced 'th'.
Quote from: Jimfin on Sunday 20 May 2012, 02:30
I'm fairly sure Ethel Smyth rhymed with "lithe". It is interesting how many British composers had unusual surnames and how few were called Jones, Smith, Green Brown and Chapman
...
lithe,
scythe,
blithe,
tithe,
Smyth ...
;)
another trap for the unwary -
Rutland Boughton (Bough as in
bow-wow, not as in
bore, and definitely not as in buff!).
:)
Please, which is the right pronunciation for
"Moeran" ?
Quote from: Albion on Monday 21 May 2012, 00:48
Quote from: Jimfin on Sunday 20 May 2012, 02:30
I'm fairly sure Ethel Smyth rhymed with "lithe". It is interesting how many British composers had unusual surnames and how few were called Jones, Smith, Green Brown and Chapman
... lithe, scythe, blithe, tithe, Smyth ...
;)
another trap for the unwary -
Rutland Boughton (Bough as in bow-wow, not as in bore, and definitely not as in buff!).
:)
The "ough" one is a particularly problematic one, for it could be pronounced like "throw" as it in in "Ferneyhough", "buff" as it is in "enough", "now" as it is in "Boughton", "oo" as it is in "through", "off" as it is in "trough" or "aw" as it is in "nought"; with this case of six pronunciations in search of a word, can anyone wonder that many people find learning English as a foreign language so difficult?!
Quote from: alberto on Monday 21 May 2012, 09:19
Please, which is the right pronunciation for
"Moeran" ?
Moeran = two distinct syllables
moy-rn (with no real articulated vowel on the second syllable, not
run, and not as long as
rern)
:)
Thank you, I almost asked about Moeran too!
Thanks, Reiger for the reference to Iowa Public Radio, best I have seen. The pronouncing guide on Naxos is audio but it is not very comprehensive.
Quote from: Jimfin on Sunday 20 May 2012, 02:30
I'm fairly sure Ethel Smyth rhymed with "lithe". It is interesting how many British composers had unusual surnames and how few were called Jones, Smith, Green Brown and Chapman
Arnold Cooke, Daniel Jones, John Gardner, Iain Hamilton, George Lloyd, James MacMillan, David Matthews, Cyril Scott, Robert Simpson, Thomas Wilson, Hugh Wood....well you did say ;D
Thank you for Moeran!
(I have recordings of Moeran music since the seventies but I heard his name pronounced just once -at the Italian radio. The Speaker said "Moy-run" : indeed she was almost right).
Another pronunciation question. How do you pronounce Lajtha?
My friend Miklos pronounces it lightuh.
Other pronounciation questions. How do you pronounce "Tuur" (I cannot type properly), "Moyzes" and "Suchon"?
I'm sure the BBC always pronounced Rubbra to rhyme with "rubber" as did a former pupil of his I once met.
The BBC pronounciation, used in the announcers' introductions to all the Rubbra compositions I made available on this forum, is consistently "Rubb-ra" (Rub-rah).
Since these broadcasts all date from the 1970's-when Rubbra was still alive-and the introductions were written by Leo Black, the BBC music producer and author of "Edmund Rubbra: Symphonist" they can, I think, be presumed to be correct.
I know from a former BBC music producer who worked for the Corporation in the 1980s that once a month he was summoned to London for a meeting with the Controller of the Third Progrramme (as it was in those days) at which all the music producers discussed the introductions for broadcasts of music.
It might be worth mentioning that I saw on another forum that Ruth Gipps was pronounced with a hard 'G': her niece contributed to the discussion and confirmed it.
I am puzzled by Arensky, many pronounce it as Arry' ensky It would seem that this may be correct as that is how I have heard Russian speakers pronounce it.
Hi Giles,
I believe that is right. I only know a little Russian, so perhaps someone else can confirm. When you see an 'e', for example, transliterated from Russian cyrillic, it is often pronounced as a 'ye' sound (with a short 'e' as in 'get'). So, Kabalevsky would be 'Kabalyevsky', for example and Arensky, 'Aryensky'. I have no idea why, since it is a transliteration that it is not simply written as it sounds! Apparently the fashion these days is to use to 'i's rather than a 'y', as in Mariinsky for example, which is pronounced Marry-insky.
Lee
Quote from: alberto on Friday 25 May 2012, 17:19
Other pronounciation questions. How do you pronounce "Tuur" (I cannot type properly), "Moyzes" and "Suchon"?
Tüür (the accents are important for correct spelling and pronunciation): in Estonian "ü" is like the German Umlaut "u", so pronounced like the French "u" (half way between an English "oo" and "ee" sound). So, Tüür just has a long version of this.
Moyzes is Slovak and, as such, is phonetic (MOY-zess), with the accent on the first syllable (as always with Czech and Slovak).
Suchoń is also Slovak. 'CH' in Slovak is like it often is in German (a gutteral 'kh' sound) or the 'ch' in the Scottish word 'loch'. The accented 'n' means there is an unvoiced 'y' after the 'n', making SUKH-on(y) - a little similar to the ending of the word 'campagne' in French.
Thanks to Delicious Manager for reply 35.